moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited August 2003
If we're going to have some kind of official nancy resurrection project, it really needs to use the original bsp for reference. It's all fine and good if he wants to do it alone and without the original as reference, except that the existence of this project would preent other similar projects from getting started, so might I suggest to whoever is serious about this, download the bsp from somewhere, (I'm sure its still around in plenty of places) and accept any talented help that people are willing to give.
Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine, who cares who makes it? We just want ns_nacy remade dont me, i dont care who make it as long as its good!? Its that simple.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cr3a7oR+Aug 17 2003, 01:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cr3a7oR @ Aug 17 2003, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whine Whine Whine Whine Whine, who cares who makes it? We just want ns_nacy remade dont me, i dont care who make it as long as its good!? Its that simple. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well said.
"Like nanites through a grid, these are the day's of our hives!"
Some clarification for a couple of people on the issue (NOT a shout for everyone):
1) Ono's stuck problems's. ALL of the maps were simply RECOMPILED (well, not simply I guess), using new tools which oz will use(or better be using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), to alleviate this problem with the new ono's code. Leading onto the second issue...
2) Nancy's original source is GONE. This is why the ono's stuck problems could not be fixed. (sadly) The file that YOU use to play the game is DRAMATICALLY different than this original. You cannot simply decompile the map from your 1.04 folder. This has to do with many of the optimizations made during the compile. These optimizations delete information that, while unuseful to the game, is needed for creation of the map. So Nancy HAS to be created from scratch. It's going to take alot of work. He'll be creating stuff based off of walk-arounds of the old map and screenshots (not just memory, I hope) So don't expect an all out duplicate.
(Please correct me here, this is my basic understanding of it!)
pretty well said there mate. Im trying to get it as close as possible as i can and how im doing this is through bsp tools which run through a program which in turn enable me to build and view by just alt+tab'ing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As sweet as it is, we all know the map as ns_nancy, so it would be too weird to start calling it bell. Maybe you could name the classic noname hive 'bell' (or something relating to your girl) instead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ono's stuck problems's. ALL of the maps were simply RECOMPILED (well, not simply I guess), using new tools which oz will use(or better be using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), to alleviate this problem with the new ono's code.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The clip hulls have not changed between 1 and 2, any map compiled as per instructions (with the -hullfile ...\nshulls.txt) will work correctly. A bug in 1.x made maps compiled with the default Half-life hulls actually work.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nancy's original source is GONE. This is why the ono's stuck problems could not be fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Working on that. I have a few remaining problems with mangling off-axis faces, or DevilDog would have a recompiled nancy already.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(sadly) The file that YOU use to play the game is DRAMATICALLY different than this original. You cannot simply decompile the map from your 1.04 folder. This has to do with many of the optimizations made during the compile. These optimizations delete information that, while unuseful to the game, is needed for creation of the map. So Nancy HAS to be created from scratch. It's going to take alot of work. He'll be creating stuff based off of walk-arounds of the old map and screenshots (not just memory, I hope) So don't expect an all out duplicate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Urban legend. The only information I have not found in the BSPs are NULL faces, CLIP brushes (*) and the exact faces that are parts of each brush (**).
*: Is possible, but rather less trivial than the rest of it. **: Brushes that could be combined usually are.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(Please correct me here, this is my basic understanding of it!)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad to be of (dis)service <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I tried to make a map inspired by an old flame once. It was called <i>ns_heartlessbitch.</i> The marine start was in a pit with no ladders, and aliens had to crawl through an obstacle course with crushing pillars to get to the res points. It was a terrible map, but for some reason, it was very popular among playesters. Sadly, the map source was lost to some Army jerk with a beamer... I mean, a hard drive crash.
<!--QuoteBegin--WarpZone+Aug 19 2003, 01:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Aug 19 2003, 01:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I tried to make a map inspired by an old flame once. It was called <i>ns_heartlessbitch.</i> The marine start was in a pit with no ladders, and aliens had to crawl through an obstacle course with crushing pillars to get to the res points. It was a terrible map, but for some reason, it was very popular among playesters. Sadly, the map source was lost to some Army jerk with a beamer... I mean, a hard drive crash. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> HA HA HA. I know the feeling dude. I know the feeling :*(.
pfft army. Join the army be a prisoner <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would just liek to point out at this point, AFTER trying the orriginal nancy with 2.0, the only time onos gets stuck is directly after gestation, if u gestate next to a movement chamber or use unstuck mod, you dont get stuck again, unless built on. HOWEVER how do you fix the initial gestate stuck hmmmmm
I want to pin down the problem a bit more: Of what I heard, the clipping hulls are the same, but devil dog sent in his map before he got the nshulls.txt (or the compile tools did not even support them at this time). So he used default clipping hulls. The defaults now seem to put the onos into the clipping plane of the floor it is gestating on, so at the intersection of the next clip plane (slopes, walls, etc...) the engine can't handle that and the player gets stuck completely. Solutions: 1. Flayra codes a 'compatibility' mode that places oni a bit higher again or 2. Someone codes a utility to move the clipping planes for hull 3 to what they should be according to nshulls.txt. 3. Redo the whole map <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
For the fans of ns_nancy the first two options might be the best I guess. Also would it help fun maps to be converted from CS to NS. Not that I am a big fan of them, but there are people who would like it. At the moment no CS maps can ever be played in NS without a recompile. This is really bugging me. It is ONLY the clipping information of the 3rd hull that causes problems. You would not even have to recompile the whole thing. Unfortunatly there are only few coders here that know the bsp format. TBH I only know of Cagey who would be able to realize point 2. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--NerdIII+Aug 19 2003, 04:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NerdIII @ Aug 19 2003, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is ONLY the clipping information of the 3rd hull that causes problems. You would not even have to recompile the whole thing. Unfortunatly there are only few coders here that know the bsp format. TBH I only know of Cagey who would be able to realize point 2. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Second hull actually <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
The consensus seems to be that recompiling the clip hulls is impossible from the BSP. Just about done.
I've had to move to partial decompilation as I had some bugs recreating hlcsg, will get them fixed later.
This hive looks 100% better from picture to picture <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
just letting you all know that this pic is the final fr subspace. I dont think many more changes will need to be applied, unless people have alot of problems with the lighting but i kinda think that suites it. R_Speeds are quite good at max being 450. <img src='http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nambucca/subspace-1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
you need to really work on making that subspace look much more like the original =/ The big pillar towards the entrance to subspace does not look like that, as you have there. And the size of the room is odd, the pipes need more work, i see you didnt interconnect one of them correctly.
<!--QuoteBegin--OneEyed+Aug 21 2003, 11:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OneEyed @ Aug 21 2003, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you need to really work on making that subspace look much more like the original =/ The big pillar towards the entrance to subspace does not look like that, as you have there. And the size of the room is odd, the pipes need more work, i see you didnt interconnect one of them correctly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I can't find the original subspace in there. This one looks smaller, and has less detail (methinks).
uh...are u apart of this thread? <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=43856' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=4&t=43856</a>
Comments
well said.
"Like nanites through a grid, these are the day's of our hives!"
Some clarification for a couple of people on the issue (NOT a shout for everyone):
1) Ono's stuck problems's. ALL of the maps were simply RECOMPILED (well, not simply I guess), using new tools which oz will use(or better be using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), to alleviate this problem with the new ono's code. Leading onto the second issue...
2) Nancy's original source is GONE. This is why the ono's stuck problems could not be fixed. (sadly) The file that YOU use to play the game is DRAMATICALLY different than this original. You cannot simply decompile the map from your 1.04 folder. This has to do with many of the optimizations made during the compile. These optimizations delete information that, while unuseful to the game, is needed for creation of the map. So Nancy HAS to be created from scratch. It's going to take alot of work. He'll be creating stuff based off of walk-arounds of the old map and screenshots (not just memory, I hope) So don't expect an all out duplicate.
(Please correct me here, this is my basic understanding of it!)
As sweet as it is, we all know the map as ns_nancy, so it would be too weird to start calling it bell. Maybe you could name the classic noname hive 'bell' (or something relating to your girl) instead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ono's stuck problems's. ALL of the maps were simply RECOMPILED (well, not simply I guess), using new tools which oz will use(or better be using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), to alleviate this problem with the new ono's code.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The clip hulls have not changed between 1 and 2, any map compiled as per instructions (with the -hullfile ...\nshulls.txt) will work correctly. A bug in 1.x made maps compiled with the default Half-life hulls actually work.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nancy's original source is GONE. This is why the ono's stuck problems could not be fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Working on that. I have a few remaining problems with mangling off-axis faces, or DevilDog would have a recompiled nancy already.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(sadly) The file that YOU use to play the game is DRAMATICALLY different than this original. You cannot simply decompile the map from your 1.04 folder. This has to do with many of the optimizations made during the compile. These optimizations delete information that, while unuseful to the game, is needed for creation of the map. So Nancy HAS to be created from scratch. It's going to take alot of work. He'll be creating stuff based off of walk-arounds of the old map and screenshots (not just memory, I hope) So don't expect an all out duplicate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Urban legend. The only information I have not found in the BSPs are NULL faces, CLIP brushes (*) and the exact faces that are parts of each brush (**).
*: Is possible, but rather less trivial than the rest of it.
**: Brushes that could be combined usually are.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(Please correct me here, this is my basic understanding of it!)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad to be of (dis)service <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
HA HA HA. I know the feeling dude. I know the feeling :*(.
pfft army. Join the army be a prisoner <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
What a fun map that would be though.
1. Flayra codes a 'compatibility' mode that places oni a bit higher again or
2. Someone codes a utility to move the clipping planes for hull 3 to what they should be according to nshulls.txt.
3. Redo the whole map <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
For the fans of ns_nancy the first two options might be the best I guess. Also would it help fun maps to be converted from CS to NS. Not that I am a big fan of them, but there are people who would like it. At the moment no CS maps can ever be played in NS without a recompile. This is really bugging me. It is ONLY the clipping information of the 3rd hull that causes problems. You would not even have to recompile the whole thing. Unfortunatly there are only few coders here that know the bsp format. TBH I only know of Cagey who would be able to realize point 2. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Second hull actually <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
The consensus seems to be that recompiling the clip hulls is impossible from the BSP. Just about done.
I've had to move to partial decompilation as I had some bugs recreating hlcsg, will get them fixed later.
<img src='http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nambucca/space1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nambucca/mother.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nambucca/subspace-1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The big pillar towards the entrance to subspace does not look like that, as you have there. And the size of the room is odd, the pipes need more work, i see you didnt interconnect one of them correctly.
email me and ill send it to yah. or Read elite guards post.
jiggsllc@hotmail.com
The big pillar towards the entrance to subspace does not look like that, as you have there. And the size of the room is odd, the pipes need more work, i see you didnt interconnect one of them correctly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I can't find the original subspace in there.
This one looks smaller, and has less detail (methinks).
cadet_schimmel@a1.net
//Nevermind...\\