The Jetpack Is Far Too Underused.

Jabba_The_Hunt · August 2003

I would be much more vocal about the use of the jet pack if it didn't stop providing trust when u "pulse" use it obviously trying to save some fuel, and its far more difficult to control if u fire it all the time.

HAMBone · August 2003

One more thing I wanted to add is, if you can afford it, Jetpacks will GREATLY enhance your HA squad. In large games where we're winning I've been known to give the better 2-3 players Jetpacks/HMGs and the other 5-6 guys HA/Welders/Grenade Launchers(Maybe 1 SG in the HA group if they beg, but I prefer ALL GLs). Then you have this unstoppable moving siege squad moving through the map spamming grenades everywhere they please, with a few quick jetpack HMGers staying behind ready to pick off the few aliens that make it through the nades at the drop of a dime. And if the aliens do manage to bruise the HAs, the jetpackers have their back while they weld eachother.

SDJason · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Aug 12 2003, 03:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> But they're not as valuable as HAs because HAs tend to stick together in order to get welded;  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
HAHAHA.... im a comm.. and i can tell you.. HA NEVER STICK TOGETHER... even if u mic spam stick together stick together... they always run off saying ooh look a little skulk... wait ... im being devoured.. damn you CLOAKED ONOS...

MORON...

Once in a while they do... but it isnt common practice with all the NS noobs we got now for HA to stick together just yet....

(p.s. im speaking of pubs)

Snidely · August 2003

I said that JPs aren't as good against skulks mainly because of leap. Maybe I was just unlucky in the skulks I've come across, or I still need more practise with the new JP (very likely, since I've used it around three times :/). They just don't seem to be as much of a bargain as HA, unless you're playing on a map with plenty of open spaces. Let's face it, if you're playing in a pub, are you going to give that/those guys you don't know equipment that requires skill, or something that just boosts your life expectency?

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>HAHAHA.... im a comm.. and i can tell you.. HA NEVER STICK TOGETHER... even if u mic spam stick together stick together... they always run off saying ooh look a little skulk... wait ... im being devoured.. damn you CLOAKED ONOS...

MORON...

Once in a while they do... but it isnt common practice with all the NS noobs we got now for HA to stick together just yet....</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I'd find another server, if I were you. Comming a team of people who don't listen is the most frustrating thing in NS.

Protoman · August 2003

Snidely, it sounds like you try to use the jetpack by simply going strait up, hovering there, and gunning down stuff below.

Leap itself only does 4 damage, so the only way a leaping skulk is only going to hurt you if you jetpack up into a corner and hover there.

You have to use the jetpack to dance around your target. Use it in bursts. Be unpredictable.

If the enemy gets too close for comfort, propel yourself away or do hit and run attacks.

Using the JP to it's full potential also requires motion tracking.

Kid-A · August 2003

If you want JP experience:

open NS
->map ns_##### (eg ns_eclipse)
->sv_cheats 1
-> run in 'marine team' door.

Apos · August 2003

Kid A: you forgot a step. After sv_cheats 1, you need to type in bigdig, or else you'll have to get out and slowly build all your structures on the way to a protolab. "givepoints" will also speed up your res pool. I assume it's okay to post this since no good public server ever has sv_cheats turned on.

HAMBone · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Protoman @ Aug 12 2003, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Leap itself only does 4 damage, so the only way a leaping skulk is only going to hurt you if you jetpack up into a corner and hover there.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It feels to me that leap is still fps dependant.

Psycho-Kinetic_Hyper-Geek · August 2003

Actually after you join marines just type "give item_jetpack" and away you go

USCMLieutenant_Ripley · August 2003

In a 12 man game JPs give mobility which is paramount in small games. So what. JPs fundamentallyare weaker. They are cheaper for this reason. How much weaker? Well a lot weaker than HA. In a larger game (8v8+) you simply should never bother to research JPs. While aliens being stronger overall contribute to the certainty of this, this was never really a point of contention. The question is which is more cost efficient is based on the number of players. That's something most players think is very un-NS. JPs are a disregarded tech AND RIGHTLY SO. They statistically never get used, because most ppl play larger games. Get it? There's no argument, but rather a minority saying "we're right, they rock, you're wrong". I'm introducing people to NS when I play 20+ games. Nobody ever looked at a clan match I've played and went "wow, what's that game?".

Mad_Man · August 2003

Im suprised a lot of you forgot to mention that HA is onlt 5 more res then JP, with HA haveing much more power on pubs then the JP, It costs 30 (ithink maby 35) for advanced armory+40 for proto+40 for HA or 30 for JP= a lot of res, and when your at that state its going to be near end game unless you have no other structures or upgrades, your most likley to be having the last stand were ha will help the people live longer or your about to win were a large drop of HA would get the last hive done becouse the kharaa have a nice hive of oc and sc. Were a large group of JP would get anilated even with GL's if the oc is placed right.

Iced_Eagle · August 2003

personally... i think jetpacks should be renamed to Jump-Packs... in 1.0x it was like impossible to catch them now... in the hands of a vet NS player the JP is still uber viable.... most of the times you just gotta time it right and don't land on floor... for example in fusion hive (ns_tanith) land on the landing pads around hive... i've killed many aliens like that... HA trains can easily be defeated using an onos/skulk combo... Stomp, devour, let skulk bite a bunch, stomp, skulk bite, stomp, devour, skulk bite, etc.... I've killed 5 HA trains like this... works wonders!! JPs aren't affected by stomp so give ouit JP/Shottie or JP/GL and you got a force to be reckoned with <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Stoneburg · August 2003

I think the problem is over-compensation. Jetpacks were so good in 1.04 that they had to be nerfed, but that went overboard, which is why they aren't used much nowadays.

Now it takes a lot longer to research them, they cost a lot more AND they're physically worse. Not only that, but the counters are now available immediatly.

Counters to JP's:
- OC's
- Lerks (lerks totally owns jetpacks now)
- Gorges (spit is much faster now)

Both are available pretty much from teh game start while Jet Packs *could* theoretically be available 6 mins into the game.

If JP's were to cost 10 res maybe I'd use them more, now it is rare. I can get a HA for just 5 res more and a HA usually stays alive 10 times as long.

xeNixx · August 2003

God, as commander or marine I have still yet to use a Jet Pack. Partly because I heard the JP was nerfed, partly because I hear its been left alone or even better than before. But these are the same people who tell me 2.0 is better than 1.4, **** if I believe that.

Nefilim · August 2003

As stated in the original post - no one knows how to use a jetpack. That's why most comms don't bother researching them. It's just a lot easier to go for heavy armor since it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to use it.

Kid-A · August 2003

I just commed a game where marines dominated (ns_bast). I researched JP + HA. When I dropped JP's people said, what is this JP for? are we taking a vent. When actually I just wanted to clear Refinery of all alien presence and ref seems an ideal JP place for killing onos, high ceiling, long way to run - what more could you want....

Evidentally few people know how to JP....

Personally I love 'em.

Supernorn · August 2003

jetpack is the official counter to Onos. This is due to the Onos having nothing but close-range attacks.

Jetpacks and HA each have good points and bad points, i think the trick is to get a mixed team of both to work together, with varied weapons such as HMG for mid-range, shotties for close combat, and GLs for long-range.

Of course, thats easier said than done unless you have a good team who is willing to play together.

Protoman · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>and when your at that state its going to be near end game unless you have no other structures or upgrades, your most likley to be having the last stand were ha will help the people live longer or your about to win were a large drop of HA would get the last hive done becouse the kharaa have a nice hive of oc and sc.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Again, where most players fault is with the assumption that the only way to take down a hive is with a direct assault.
Direct assaults are extremely risky.

Even a squad of heavies have to resort to sieges or grenades to take a well defended hive against aliens that have decent evolutions.

It's not about killing the aliens base directly, it's setting up an outpost and killing any aliens that try to stop you.

For killing other aliens the jetpack is extremely effective.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Counters to JP's:
- OC's
- Lerks (lerks totally owns jetpacks now)
- Gorges (spit is much faster now)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

You shouldn't be taking OC's on directly. This is why we have the grenade launcher and siege turret.

Gorges are not a counter the jetpacks. Most gorges can barely hit a moving ground based marine from any signifigant distance. Forget a fast moving marine traveling in all three dimensions.

So what if lerks can put up a fight against jetpacks? There are never more than one or two per team - Everything else is fodder.
The lerk is not a counter to the JP. it's better against the JP than any other alien, but a HMG marine should beat a lerk (depending on what upgrades they both have).

Maveric · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Protoman @ Aug 12 2003, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Besides, lerks aren't that common. The aliens all expect you to go heavy armor anyway, so they will be saving up for onus and getting ready to devour.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
but you chose to use JPs, and as you sit on the rafter near the ceiling killing the last hive with your JP... while onos try to devour you in vain as you fly away quickly...

"Team one wins."

grafgraverke · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Gorges are not a counter the jetpacks. Most gorges can barely hit a moving ground based marine from any signifigant distance. Forget a fast moving marine traveling in all three dimensions.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Gorges <b>can</b> potentially down a jp, <b>if</b> in the hands of an experienced player.. failing that, he can distract the jp long enough to allow a skulk to blindside him.. a Gorge and 2 oc can be a frightening, lethal experience for even the most jaded veteran with jp..

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So what if lerks can put up a fight against jetpacks? There are never more than one or two per team - Everything else is fodder.
The lerk is not a counter to the JP. it's better against the JP than any other alien, but a HMG marine should beat a lerk (depending on what upgrades they both have).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

true that there aren't usually a lot of Lerks in a game, and usually ain't up to the task.. then again, skill and the luck factor also determines a lot.. at one time I even saw 3 hmg/jp's shamed by one (1) Lerk. (hell, even saw a Skulk pull off the same thing)

Just a reminder that no plan is foolproof, you're totally dependant on your <b>team</b> , and if your team knows their stuff and do their thing (as u command them too) chances are you'll win.. while if they don't..

Same goes for Kharaa offcourse, a lot of players seem to thinnk they'll be invincible once they gestate onos, then proceed to get wasted by a t-farm..

CaLFiN · August 2003

Nobody wants to use a jetpack because let's face it, they're useless. Every useful aspect of the JP has been nerfed... Cost, research time, ability to hover (not forever), abilty to go up without having to land.

It's easier for a comm to research Heavy Armour... Which: Stick together to weld, are harder to kill, work better as a team, take down hives faster, can defend spots easier.

Things such as: Jetpackers do not stick together, die and lose weapons play large factors too.

MrMojo · August 2003

I love lerking. I almost always go lerk when I can. And besides, there are many things you can do about a jetpacker. Go skulk, or lerk, and at least attempt to hurt them. If they're concentrating on you, they arent shooting the hive.

Corporal_Hicks1 · August 2003

Underused? UNDERUSED?!?!? Dude, no offense but what universe are you from exactly!? I cannot count how many games I've lost because of **** commanders who decide that we need to have JPs over HAs when there are 3 or 4 fades knocking on the door. With JPs, we can fly!!! WOOT WOOT. But in cramped enviroments, they are easily shot down. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

grafgraverke · August 2003

but u get to build stuff at otherwise unreachable locations, (*hint!* *hint!*) plus provide birds eye view cover for your team..

again, not getting into detail. figure it out yerselves <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Corporal_Hicks1 · August 2003

You're operating under the assumption that skulks can't climb and that Fades can't blink in your "you can build things out of reach" argument. That plus when the vast majority of maps, the roof is only about 10 feet above your head, a "birds eye view" doesn't amount to much.

USCMLieutenant_Ripley · August 2003

Fades are more like 1.04 jetpacks with the new blink. I've seen a fade fly around 10x longer and 4x faster than a JPer in 2.0. If you want a jetpack that works, be a fade?

grafgraverke · August 2003

Fades and Skulks ain't all that tough, and it assures your team don't get flattened by mass-Onos..

some of the locations I can think of however are HARD to reach, even with a Skulk !

and no, no point in asking where those might be <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

HAMBone · August 2003

For the record, I bit the bullet and commanded 3 pub 10v10 games last night on our server(the hamptons), got jetpacks all 3 games, won all 3 games. The most vets I had on my team was 2 at one point. 3/3 jetpackers(even newbies) with commander support are pretty unstoppable. I dont really enjoy pubbing public games as much as I did in the beta or as much as I love to command our matches, but I really dont like HA and I never get it, even in pubs. I guess when I drop HA I just feel like I dont have any control over what happens, dont know why I even need to watch them, just let them do their thing. With JP I can medpack them the second they get hit(they get hit much less than HA and units tend to go for it and die much faster, too), it just feels much more involved and more fun for everyone. Jetpacks are great for games you're losing too, but instead of going for the hive, you go for resource node dominance. Hand everyone a JP/shotgun and have them run out taking out all the alien nodes and taking them for yourself, until you have like every node, then they all group up and go for the hive. If they die, they can come back and get re-equipped immediately and be back out on the field in no time.

The Jetpack Is Far Too Underused.

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