Finishing Off Marines?
Kid-A
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Harder than it looks...</div> I just came out of a game where I was comming(new map) and we did badly and toward the end the aliens had three hives and we were fighting for the one node that was free and not in the base. I thought 'oh were finished' should be over soon.
However my marines didn't want to give up so said 'lots of turrets please, then save for HA' I did this, we had about 8 turrets and a seige and I dropped welders now and again. I even saved to research HA, but by then it had got so boring that people were dropping, so I recycled the TF. My point is if a marine side does this how can you overcome it? I'm sure the game would have gone on long enough for us to HA out of there.
Its very boring for both sides and the only time the aliens came close to breaking through was when almost the whole team got together, 2 onnii, fades, lerks, gorges, skulks. Even then they were fought off, and by the time they could assemble a force like that again we'd easily be repaired.
Any tricks you get over this?
However my marines didn't want to give up so said 'lots of turrets please, then save for HA' I did this, we had about 8 turrets and a seige and I dropped welders now and again. I even saved to research HA, but by then it had got so boring that people were dropping, so I recycled the TF. My point is if a marine side does this how can you overcome it? I'm sure the game would have gone on long enough for us to HA out of there.
Its very boring for both sides and the only time the aliens came close to breaking through was when almost the whole team got together, 2 onnii, fades, lerks, gorges, skulks. Even then they were fought off, and by the time they could assemble a force like that again we'd easily be repaired.
Any tricks you get over this?
Comments
Onos to devour HAs then charge around turrets/protect gorge
Gorge to bile bomb turret farms/ heal aliens
Fade to blink behind enemy turrets, kill grenade launchers, blink out
Skulk to xenociding/ do leap hit and run attacks
And oh i forgot ...most importantly, do all of the above <b>at the same time, not 1 by 1</b>
Combination forces and teamworks are the key.
We had 3 oni, 2 lerk, 2 gorges, 1 fade and 2 skulks.
They had full upg, heavy armour and weaps and the WHOLE room full of turrets.
Everytime we got absolutely decimated and had to evolve all our stuff back and reassemble. Nades absolutely punished any lerks, skulks and gorges and anything left was destroyed by HMGS and turrets. Everytime we coordinated our rushes with all alien attacks and everytime we would get say 5 turrets and 5 marines. By the time we got back to do it again they had rebuilt, repaired and rearmed.
In the end the marines gave up after 1 and a half hours due to the fact that they were bored of not getting anywhere since we owned the rest of the map.
The worst part tho was that feedwater hive is the closest to atmos and therefore if u were at engine or ref u had to run all the way back to feed as u couldnt use a movement to get there.
Personally i think turrets are too cheap and painful they need a limit like the oc's.
- RD
My current tactic: fade nests.
Get a gorge near the front lines. Preferably more than one. Build clusters of 3MCs/3DCs/1SC. If the rines have a siege, you'll need to kill the obs first.
While in range of the MCs, adren gorges can pretty much bile-bomb perpetually. Likewise, fades can acid-rocket perpetually. You really only need to stop to heal. And if you have regen and are in DC range, you don't need to stop to heal.
Obviously, this works best in wide-open areas, where it's difficult to close for melee attacks.
In a 6v6, I try to organize the following group:
1 lerk
2 gorges
1 skulk
2 oni
(No offense to fades, I just find them less useful for this particular style of base annihilation).
Now, if they have lots of heavies, it's going to be hard. For that, you'll need something else. However, simply running in as redemption oni over and over and devouring their arses tends to reduce the marine heavy supply. Once low, you can do the following:
Lerk spores. And spores. And spores. Slowly weakening the marines who are alive. When you see them begin to die (one or two), that's when you start the attack, since they're at their weakest.
First, the skulk rushes in under umbra and whatever else you can give him to xenocide... Hopefully he makes it (maybe not), but if so, it makes your life easier since he serves as an Enfants Perdus, killing many weakened marines and hurting a few towers a little bit.
Lerk primals. Oni either charge under umbra, or run in to devour/gore/stomp under umbra. They won't wipe out the whole base by any means, if it's tough enough, however, with weakened marines, a few charge touches or gore hits will kick their arses, and the oni should absorb enough bullets to give the gorges time to bilebomb relatively freely. The combination, in my experience, wipes out 2-3/4 of the marine base at the cost of 200 res, and hopefully includes the siege turrets, which will let you set up movement chambers and then have essentially free reign over what's left.
What you need is to make sure they have no nodes outside their base, since they can continue to drop weapons and welders which would only prolong the game. Get a lerk or two to spam umbra around the closest turrents so that Oni can use charge to take em out and get out safely. You can keep this up and eventually whittle down the turrent farms to nothing.
Once you get rid of the static D, lerks have to spam umbra again like crazy except around the marines this time. Oni use charge once again and try to take out as many marines as they can. While the Oni are running around in the marine base, gorges should come in and start biling their structures. Lerks should umbra to the gorges to protect them.
When a skulk activates xenocide, there is enough energy to perform one leap. Use it. Time it so that you can leap and explode just when you reach a group of marines. It's great.
How I hate alien endgames. The fact a bilebombing gorge isn't the most effective option due to its horrid range and mad turrets, and that the aliens don't really have any other weapon designed to counter turrets, there is almost no easy way for a bunch of 3-hive aliens to kill marines cooped up in atmospheric processing with 2 res nodes constantly supplying an endless stream of turrets. Acid rocket isn't great against buildings and as a fade you won't want to stand in the line of fire for too long before getting pwned by some ungodly gadget known as the sentry gun. Don't talk to me about umbra. The GL is deadly enough to make up for the lack of other forms of firepower.
It's incredible. I really wonder whether the pts/vets/devs actually thought of this during the beta phrase. Perhaps it was because of the deadly efficency of the old bilebomb... I'm not too sure. Nevertheless, something has to be done. IMO, either turrets should be made more expensive (ocs cost 10 res and an additional 10 res for the gorge) or the bilebomb should have a greater range. Anything to increase the siege efficency iof the alien side in 2.0 will be greatly appreciated by the community as a whole, and I'm pretty sure of that.
I have had a helluve a time Busting up marines turrtles. Even with GOOD combined attacks I find that GOOD marines genrally will pervail. Sadly enough I have found in these cases victory goes to the team with the most endurance. At this point I have played at leats 2 games a nite that have lasted1-3 hours with victory genrally going to the team who doesnt f4. In at least 4 cases we actualy called a cease fire MIDGAME and came to terms (this was on a pub no less) both team f4ed and game was called a draw.
While the above are good tactic I have good counters I have sence used on me, and have used on aleins to fight em off.
Fade nests are a good idea <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Strangely enough, there IS a limit to how many marine structures you can put in one area. I saw it myself when messing around in a LAN game.
the key is not to get alot of onos, as everyone might thing, but to get a majority of fades, yes acid rocket still ownes turret farms, combine this with a few gorges and lerks and you will notice end game getting ALOT quicker
If you have less players or if you can't break in in the above mentioned style, you'll want to place structures outside siege range (many defense chambers, movement chambers, max them out, because you have the resources to do so). Have about 3-4 gorges, one onos, at least one lerk, at least one fade. The gorges must try to bilebomb, the fade use acid rockets to weaken heavies, the onos charge periodically around the base causing considerable damage - all in lerks' umbra and primal scream. Skulks with xenocide (if anyone wants to do it) can weaken or destroy structures/units. If you keep doing this for about 10 minutes successfully, the marines get poor - and that means less Heavy Armors, where spores come into play. Then bilebombs become easier to pull off.
I guess it's possible but requiers extreme cooperation from alien team :-) If they have big turret farm onos cant even come near and fade cant even blink in front of them, they target me even during blink!
ex. Set up chamber drawings that the commander can read when he scans an area. Have the entire team stand around and chuckle. Make voice command music - like "We will rock you" for example - one person chuckles and another calls for backup.
Although I normally find blink really disorientating.