Onos Redemption

FCC · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Is this suppose to be a joke?</div> I don't know if this is suppose to be allowed or if it is just a mistake in the game they forgot to fix, but an Onos with redemption is next to impossible to kill.

Even the combined power of eight level three light machine guns can not kill it. An onos with redemption is particularly most annoying when it runs into the marine base and devours a marine. The entire marine team opens fire expecting to down the Ono within seconds, but the Ono is saved by redemption, and completes its devour and repeats the process over and over again.

I think I remember reading in the manual that Onos were not allowed to get redemption, but maybe it was changed; however, if it has been changed, this change is seriously overpowering and not to forget extremely annoying.

CForrester · August 2003

Get heavy weapons, or combine LMG fire with mines. Redemption is working fine, I believe.

vin1 · August 2003

i reckon at least let the onos spit the marine out if he redempts..

Frizzled · August 2003

I was going to post the same thing (still might if this falls of the page).

Onos should either spit the marine out or be unable to redeem if he's got someone in his stomach, right now the current cheese is - run at a bunch of marines, swallow one, get shot, redeem. *blech*

_f

Talesin · August 2003

Try heavy weapons. Or shotguns. Or mines. It's quite possible for a group of LA marines to take down a Redemption Onos, though not with LMGs unless they are extremely lucky.

The onos-cannot-get-redemption thing was fixed even back in v1.0 standard... pre-release, there was a bug with the Onos that would get it stuck in the floor if it redeemed. Flayra fixed it. The manual is outdated.

Trojan2 · August 2003

ok, maby its an fps thing i dont know, I killed 2 redemtion oni with combined LMG fire (1st time) and HMG fire (2cd time). We were playtesting it in a clan setting so we know it had redmtion. I got BLAZED when i tried redemtion, the 1st time although after that I got smart and made sure I either ate the HMG or picked on smaller sqauds.

Bosnian_Cowboy · August 2003

I find that the Onos get redeemed before they can even reach a building/marine to attack. So I don't have a problem with it. The idea about Onos not being able to redeem if having someone in belly is genius, it makes perfect sense.

qweazdak · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Onos should either spit the marine out or be unable to redeem if he's got someone in his stomach</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Me like that

zerg_overmind · August 2003

i said the same thing in another tread
just make it so he can't redeem simple
as that

edit\when hes got someone in his stomach/edit

Haze · August 2003

I'm all for it.

Xero · August 2003

Onos + Redemption are 99% impossible to kill. The only viable option is to catch the onos at a hive after it redeems. I commed a game where i gave *ALL* my marines level 3 HMG's and they were still unable to kill a single onos outside a hive. Next game I played as a marine and even though a few quick moving guys would normally be able to kill the onos, it redeemed everytime. So, the NEXT game my friend played as alien and of course went onos + redemption. For the rest of the game (over 30 minutes) he did not die ONCE and stomp + devoured countless marines with varying combinations of weapons and armor. Even grenade launchers could not stop him. This seems to be the biggest imbalance in v2 and should not be ignored.

Aegeri · August 2003

I agree with the consensus in this thread.

I'm amazed this wasn't picked up on earlier.

civman2 · August 2003

Where did my 5 months of playtesting go?

*shakes fist angrily*

n4s7y · August 2003

The best way to defend again a devour harassment is well placed buildings. Make it hard for onos to get to your marines. I think it's well balanced. Remember that onos are huge fing things, making it near impossible to get through a tight group of buildings. Onos without carapace is also very weak, making it damn easy to kill. Heck, onos with carapce is easy to kill. If there's an onos about to devour you, strafe jump. Normally the rest of your team will finish it off pretty quickly. Anyway, redempt is the best defense upgrade for onos because well.. onos aren't cheap.

I don't see what the bitching's about... redemption's well balanced.

Aegeri · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I don't see what the bitching's about... redemption's well balanced</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Redemption isn't the problem is the combination of devour and redemption that is.

civman2 · August 2003

the problem is a heavy squad assulting a base can expect to lose one member every twenty seconds for as long as they're there.

krapht · August 2003

Devouring redemption onos is my only beef with 2.0. And its a gigantic beef. These oni counter HA so well that unless you rush aliens win.

Apos · August 2003

I agree: Onos are EXPENSIVE. Being able to live longer via redemption is definately deserved for the expenditure, and you don't ALWAYS redeem. Onos are also sort of slow and get stuck on geometery/chambers quite a lot, so redeeming often takes you out of the action for awhile. In fact, if I have any complaint about redepmtion it's that it works so early. Several times I've charged in hoping to destroy a turret... and found myself back in the hive. Rinse, repeat... and I never could even reach the turret, even though I never died. Odd.

Ditto on the no redemption w/ devour thing. Too silly. And while a slightly transparent stomach screen would be cool, it would give away too much about the aliens tactics as well as not quite fitting the fact that you are in a huge armored beast's stomach, being burned alive in acid.

Amelek · August 2003

If I remember correctly, the logic behind slowing an onos down after it devoured a marine was to give a chance for marines to rescue their friend. Clearly, I think that redemption defeats that exact goal by preventing the onos from dying as well as MOVING them across the map. If redemption were like other defensive upgrades (helping to keep the onos alive) then this would be a moot point, but redemption has an element of motion as well. It is the redemption's ability to quickly move an onos across the map that throws its behavior with devour into question. Remember, the fastest mode of alien transportation is NOT blink ... but redemption ...

Rion · August 2003

Heh.. I've been in teams of three with nothing but LMGs and have killed Onos.. of course we had level 2 weaponry.. but come on, you cannot say that 8 LMGers can't kill an onos with redemption. Sure you'll make him teleport away, but he doesn't have regeneration so he can't take out turret farms. He doesn't have Carapace so he can't kill HA teams.. all he can do is get looked at and then teleported to the hive.

If you're having trouble with redemption onos.. please learn to stick in packs, or learn to stick in packs that can hit something the size of an elephant.

A few tips are to keep your eyes and ears open, nothing gives an onos away other than it's very loud stomp. make sure to keep an eye on motion tracking, by the time an onos should pop up, your com will probably have motion tracking.

What if they have sensory? Well then they probably don't have movement chambers so you'll hear the sucker from a mile away.. what if they have all three chambers? Well then.. a three hive onos deserves that power.

zerg_overmind · August 2003

but is not a onos redemption thats a problem it the
redemtion/devour combo

Talesin · August 2003

Actually, it's more a problem that everyone is still assuming all the weapons work the same way as v1.04, and that you should never give out X as it's a waste of money.

A week or two (maybe a month, tops) someone's going to realize the hard counter to devour/redemption, and actually use it. The same way that a number of other tactics will be found and slapped away. It's a balancing system... you have to tech up and try to out-guess your opponent in cases. It is much easier to do this as Marines, or even to change tactics mid-game with only a marginal RP loss.

krapht · August 2003

I suppose you're talking about shotguns or grenade launchers?

Nope, tried both. Celerity onos too fast, and stomp very awesome.

Dysfunctional · August 2003

0mG! Teh 0n0s haz teh r3d3pti0n w1t d3v0ur!!! $0 ***!! 0vERp0WeR3D!!!!!!!

Yeah, whatever.. Big deal if 1 marine gets taken out of action for a bit.. The damn onos is ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP. A skulk would have the same effect to a normal marine. To a heavy, well damn.. You must really like to rambo.

If you're a damn heavy, stick with the train and learn how to pay attention. An onos shouldn't even make it within 10 ft of you, well.. That is if you're with people that know how to aim. They don't even gotta be good, Just good enough to hit the broad side of a barn with a few bullets. There's one thing that marines will always have.. It's called distance! Something that a heavy assault monstrosity, like the Onos, lacks! Use it to your damn advantage and stop bitching about how they eat one of your people and teleport away.

Or better yet, just play the damn game and accept that it's beyond wonderful and you're meaningless gripes with crap that you don't like just don't make a lick of difference. Because really, if you can't find a way around it, then you shouldn't even bother playing anymore. It's not that difficult to dish out enough damage with a decked out marine team. If you're in light armor still, then you're expendable. It's as simple as that.

Now I shall take my leave, and leave you with one last bit of wisdom...

Love it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Hypergrip · August 2003

Sure, now that everybody can becaome Onos they want to save their 100 res spent on it, so they use redemption.
But you will see, that redemption Onos will be less usefull the higher the Marine's weapons upgrades are.
A redemption Onos will not win a game for you, because it get's redeemed before it can reach the TF for example.
Same applies for GROUPS of Marines with a MIXED weapon loadout... remember guys: shotties are your friends.

All this whinning about Onos + Redemption + Devour is because in 2 days you might not have found a way to handle it.
As said before: Travel in Groups and use different weapons.
Also think of Jetpacks... Although you can get devoured in air at least you can't get stomped.

During the playtests I've seen lots of Marines being devoured and I've seen lots of Marines that were rescued.
It just takes some time to adept to the new gameplay.
Same goes for the "omg it's only 4 hour games now!"-whinners... when people get used to 2.0 the rounds will be a lot faster/shorter.

So please stop whinning and play some weeks with average players.. then you might have changed your mind.

Hyper

RabidWeasel · August 2003

2 marines with l3 shotties will kill a redem onos in just over a second.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

There's already been topics on this, so here's the lowdown:

JP/Shottie is the 'official' counter to Oni with Redemption. Additionally, we have word from Flayra that some changes on the Redemption system are pending.

Please use one of the older threads to discuss this.

<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>

Onos Redemption

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