Ns 2.0 My Thoughts
Mythr1l
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12772Members
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12772Members
<div class="IPBDescription">improvment, but at a cost?</div> Well after a few days of playing the new 2.0... what can i say?
well played a few clan matches, in which all seems to be fairly balanced, aliens are great fun to play, skulk is just right at the start, and imo once HAHMG / Onos techs are reached, the teams can have a fun and fair battle.
one problem with this though, it simply takes to long to win as either team, tbh my experiance so far with marine... its just downright boring, and almost everyone i know says this.
the order it seems to go is: aliens tech to 2/3 hives using their instant 3 DC advantage, marines then take double res point with upgrades, marines tech to HAHMG, aliens tech to onos, and then the fun fight begins. the problem with this being that during this time, marines are just being owned, repeatedly. there isnt any way to win for them early game, as building TF outside the hive and sieging early without upgrades vs 75/40 skulks isnt going to work, especially as phases are so expencive now, as aliens, its very hard to win early as well, because the marines put a TF in base with the now universally feared sentrys.
Basic summary:
Aliens, great, the improvments were needed and are most welcome.
Marines: Boring, hardly anything has changed for your run of the mill marine, except the skulks are harder to kill now, which is great since the balance is here now.
imo the dev's need to find / create more ways for a game to finish earlyer, its great having the odd game that lasts 1-2 hours and is an epic battle, but its really tedius when every game lasts that length.
well played a few clan matches, in which all seems to be fairly balanced, aliens are great fun to play, skulk is just right at the start, and imo once HAHMG / Onos techs are reached, the teams can have a fun and fair battle.
one problem with this though, it simply takes to long to win as either team, tbh my experiance so far with marine... its just downright boring, and almost everyone i know says this.
the order it seems to go is: aliens tech to 2/3 hives using their instant 3 DC advantage, marines then take double res point with upgrades, marines tech to HAHMG, aliens tech to onos, and then the fun fight begins. the problem with this being that during this time, marines are just being owned, repeatedly. there isnt any way to win for them early game, as building TF outside the hive and sieging early without upgrades vs 75/40 skulks isnt going to work, especially as phases are so expencive now, as aliens, its very hard to win early as well, because the marines put a TF in base with the now universally feared sentrys.
Basic summary:
Aliens, great, the improvments were needed and are most welcome.
Marines: Boring, hardly anything has changed for your run of the mill marine, except the skulks are harder to kill now, which is great since the balance is here now.
imo the dev's need to find / create more ways for a game to finish earlyer, its great having the odd game that lasts 1-2 hours and is an epic battle, but its really tedius when every game lasts that length.
Comments
try this
rush > expansion
expansion > defense
defense > rush
> = greater than or beats.
imo the dev's need to find / create more ways for a game to finish earlyer, its great having the odd game that lasts 1-2 hours and is an epic battle, but its really tedius when every game lasts that length. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its gonna take a while to develop stratigies. People are still playing with all the fun things as aliens. In time everyone will learn the new flow and the games will be shorter. Youll see. Its good that the marines appear over powered, because as soon as the Aliens learn to work together and a basic stratagey is formed its going to be a very difficult task for the marines.
we scrimmed on it and won fast many times once u learn to paly the patch u will see an increase in speed . More teamwork faster end to game period. Forget 1.04 this is new game i still see guys yelling at more that one gorge and i see lerks usin spores on ha so....
But really, I don't want to sound like and idiot, but you can't judge the gameplay after playing only 1 day. Consider yourselves complete newbies now, like you played 1.0 for the first time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And as a vet, I must say that there's still a lot of things to work out even after a lot of playing, especially on the marine side
this makes games long and booring slugish if the marines survive long enuff to get upgrades, but them "over powered" turrets at base always help.
Some maps look great, others butcherd.
LMG sounds broken.
Pistol sounds plastic .
and them sounds are inforced consistancy on good clan servers and .......... leauge servers <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
other then that gj
I'd have thought only devs /vet's and PT's would have any kind of researched opinions on balance by now, guess I was mistaken,
/me goes back to being a bit lost and going "Eh?"
One thing however - in pubbies there is very little <b>teamwork</b>
Team work is essential in finishing off well defended positions - just as to finish off aliens the marines have to move in a big HA HMG/GL group and get to a siege point, or shoot the hive, the aliens have to use a combined force of Charging ONOS, Acid spamming/Blink slashing FADES , xenociding skulks, bile bombing gorges and most importantly primal screaming and umbra'ing <b>lerks</b>
I havnt seen many lerks being used in conjunction with other forces , and if i do see them, theyre normally too busy shooting their non stackable spores at HA marines wondering why they arnt getting the influx of kills theyre used to in 1.04.
In those games where aliens took forever to finish marines off, very little teamwork was involved, gorges were busy setting up their own cloaked walls of lame, fades too busy frag hunting, onos too scared to die, etcetc, not once did i see a concerted rush with all 8 aliens involved. And so what ends up happening is one onos goes in at a time, followed by a lerk and perhaps a skulk, and all die, one by one, instead of charging in together.
Remember ppl lerks are a <b>support</b> class, and a damn good one at that.
According to a friendly server admin, the games today were closely balanced (40/60 in aliens favour) compared to 1.04 where it was more like 30/70. However, every game I played in, the team I felt deserved the win won.
Charge and Xeno and Acid Rocket make 3rd hive the bling bling win for aliens. Web isn't really an issue in any games anymore.
During the playtesting on the vet server games lasted anywhere from 2-50 minutes...we never lasted over an hour...and I'd say our average basic tech and win game took 20 minutes.
I guess it was more fun in 1.04 to sit at a hive as gorge and wait till 80 res, while the rest of the team was skulks and lerks. Just to have the marines have jetpacks in just under 6 minutes and taking down your hive.
GG 1.04, but VGG 2.0.
with these support units fades and onos will be able to stay in marine base for longer than 5 seconds without being redeemed or killed
Silence is my favorite upgrade in the whole game now. That thing is deadly when ur a skulk.
The problem is, you need cara for all your other classes, bar gorge. Cara is damn good for fade/onos/lerk.... and youll need them for skulks too when the rines get upgrades.
In most cases, the reason people have problems in v2.0 is because they're still playing it like it was v1.0x. There is a reason it is not called v1.1; the gameplay is different. It requires a different mindset. For one, Defense chambers are virtually useless excepting to Onos... MCs with Celerity and Silence are far more handy (especially as they give you limited Adrenaline while standing near them), trailed closely by SCs with area-of-effect cloaking and Scent of Fear.
The two-hive lockdown is no longer god... it's more about the RTs at this point. Hives are simply another respawn point and upgrade chamber... not as useful as a single Lerk, Fade, or Onos can be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->one problem with this though, it simply takes to long to win as either team, tbh my experiance so far with marine... its just downright boring, and almost everyone i know says this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose it was great fun during those six minute games with JP/HMG rushes, huh?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the order it seems to go is: aliens tech to 2/3 hives using their instant 3 DC advantage...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What three DC advantage is he talking about? Carapace? It doesnt nullify 10% of damage at each level anymore to my knowledge. It gives you more armor, thats it. I've stoped following things about a week ago and I might have missed a few posts, but can someone enlighten me on this subject?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...marines then take double res point with upgrades, marines tech to HAHMG...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not all maps have a double res point, and it seems that this oppinion is biased towards one game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...aliens tech to onos, and then the fun fight begins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If all aliens are onos, then the game is over. They would need to have a serious amount of res points under their control with fluid defenses around all of them to keep them 'online.' I dont know what you mean by <i>teching</i> to onos besides everyone having them. The battles require a diverse range of different species of Kharaa to succeed, unless the whole team is onos, like I said my sorry friend, good game. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the problem with this being that during this time, marines are just being owned, repeatedly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the marines are not supposed to rambo, smart one. That is absolutly the best improvment in this game so far is the <i><u><b>need</b></u></i> for marine teamwork. I'm finally saying goodbye to the dumb old rambo. One marine can rarly hold his own against the skulks. The wall oriantation is <i>amazing</i> and you can really confuse the poor guys. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->. there isnt any way to win for them early game, as building TF outside the hive and sieging early without upgrades vs 75/40 skulks isnt going to work, especially as phases are so expencive now...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I'm going to say here is it <i>shouldnt</i> work. But hold on, I see some conflicting in your own post, actually within the same sentence above.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...as aliens, its very hard to win early as well, because the marines put a TF in base with the now universally feared sentrys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are these feared sentries? Why cant the marines sit outside the hive and siege if their sentries are <b>so</b> powerful. Youre making me laugh.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marines: Boring, hardly anything has changed for your run of the mill marine, except the skulks are harder to kill now, which is great since the balance is here now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A many small tweaks that you dont notice, but are taking place are still in there. How about those command console fixes, the jetpack difference, the upgrades now depend on the arms lab to stay (You can no longer recycle the arms lab when you have level upgrades), the heavies immune to spores, and many other things.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->imo the dev's need to find / create more ways for a game to finish earlyer, its great having the odd game that lasts 1-2 hours and is an epic battle, but its really tedius when every game lasts that length. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt that every one of your games have lasted 1-2 hours. The games finish much earlier now, due to the decreased cost of almost everything, and the need for teamwork. I suggest that you open your eyes, you spoiled brat, and actually see whats going on in the game.
I suggest we all follow hamsters lead and sit in our chairs, gawking at this masterpiece they call 2.0, and continue to say, "Eh?"
Aliens on the other hand....
Well other then the new onos I have vary little good to sya about the Khara. Skulks are a joke, basicly I feel that they could be renamed "res fodder" becuase thats all there good for. Lerks should be renamed "wizard" and given a robe. Fades oh boy, who the HELL came up with those new arm models?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? We started calling them "gimps" the toher night and the name is spreading. They look like they fell off the short bus with there arms flailing to and fro. Please, either give em there old arms or give them a hocky helmat. Gorges on the other hand, holy Shazt, gorges went from being cute little builders to fricken Uber tanks. Why waste all the res on a retardo-fade when 10 res pops a gorge off the bat, get 3-5 off them and waltz into a rine base and demolish it. Onos, devoure is a bad **** ability that feels satifing to use but, I feel like its almost a, gimick? I would rather have a good balence group of aliens then 2 uber classes, a over priced retard and two res fodders.
Well, im off to play....
Please, play the game before you starting criticizing it. Five gorges destroying a base, <i>please.</i> I suggest you try something so praposterous before saying it would actually work.
It is really, really boring.
BUT: Why jump to conclusions? People are still getting used to 2.0, I've yet to see some real teamwork and innovative strategies, which are sure to come as soon as people get over the "OMGOMGOMG NEW PISTOL SOUNDS AND TEH ONOS DEVOUR ROXXXXX"-shock.
So let's hold off the flamewar for at least a week, please.
The answer, I think, is obvious: mine + shotty rush
pwned <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, while many people may be complaining because they still try to play like 1.04, let's not assume this just because they have a complaint. I know many people who are actively trying to figure out 2.0 and the more they understand, the less they like. While 1.04 had lots of room for improvement, it also had many elements that were appreciated by all, some of which have disappeared since then.
Sometimes I just wish this place closes until maybe 2 weeks later... You know, for the forum's sake.
But thats just me, what the hell do I know.
It is acceptable that 2Hive lock no longer make sense.Before 2.0, The victory depended on the number of hives they had.So if your team had only 1 hive, It was foretaste of being slaughtered.Now, even if we are defeated, the game is enjoyable anyway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is acceptable that 2Hive lock no longer make sense.Before 2.0, The victory depended on the number of hives they had.So if your team had only 1 hive, It was foretaste of being slaughtered.Now, even if we are defeated, the game is enjoyable anyway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?m????B
EDIT: True, true.