<!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jul 19 2003, 05:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jul 19 2003, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its probably just really freaking borring. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We should donate computers and copies of NS so they could lan heh.
Right back on topic. I don't know shore leave is usually like 2 weeks long, so I'd think they could fly somewhere (maybe even back home) for a week, while fresh soldiers took over. Not sure how it's working over there. Also I think the guerrula aspect of it might be getting to them, It's a real mental screw to fight an enemy that does hit and run tactics.
It's just plain hard, knwoing that every day at least 3 US soldiers get killed. The tension must be immense and as I said, I just feel sorry for them. So I can understand why they complain and actually it's their duty to complain, because they're the ones who actually feel what's going on.
Believe it or not they are trained to deal with death (actual psychological course work) and in how to disregard fear and anxiety. But like someone said they are only human.
Keep in mind none of these are draftees (correct me if I'm wrong) so they are there because they chose to be there.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+Jul 19 2003, 05:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Jul 19 2003, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's just plain hard, knwoing that every day at least 3 US soldiers get killed. The tension must be immense and as I said, I just feel sorry for them. So I can understand why they complain and actually it's their duty to complain, because they're the ones who actually feel what's going on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be true after the fact. When they retire, they can write a book. But now, when they are there trying to stay alive, saying things like this will only lesson the likelyhood of survival.
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
Hell, I'd complain if I was one a soldier in Iraq right now.
Think about it: They won, but yet they are still there, getting shot at by people that would not shoot at them if they just left like they are sposed to after they "win". They beat up the bad guy, and if they were listening to the pres. as much as we were they would have realised that G.W. promised to get them home as soon as possible, which has obviously not happened. That sucks.
well to be fair i doubt manyt of them signed up with the exress intent of fighting in iraq. many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jul 19 2003, 05:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 19 2003, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Believe it or not they are trained to deal with death (actual psychological course work) and in how to disregard fear and anxiety. But like someone said they are only human.
Keep in mind none of these are draftees (correct me if I'm wrong) so they are there because they chose to be there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, like I said before none of these guys are conscripts. But having a friend get greased would wear on you no matter who you are.
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 19 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 19 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+Jul 19 2003, 05:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Jul 19 2003, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's just plain hard, knwoing that every day at least 3 US soldiers get killed. The tension must be immense and as I said, I just feel sorry for them. So I can understand why they complain and actually it's their duty to complain, because they're the ones who actually feel what's going on. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be true after the fact. When they retire, they can write a book. But now, when they are there trying to stay alive, saying things like this will only lesson the likelyhood of survival. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a little harsh, but true in a way. Also I think like I said earlier this might just be getting blown out of preportion by the media. Since CNN reported on it (somone said this earlier) and they tend to have slightly more negative views on the war than say Fox News, it might have been presented in a way to make it seem like there is a great deal of desperation. You have to remember they didn't interview everyone, and in my opinion that would be the only way to get an accurate story on this subject, but 200 thousand interviews would take up a lot of air time.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well to be fair i doubt manyt of them signed up with the exress intent of fighting in iraq. many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination.
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 19 2003, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 19 2003, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I imagine getting shot at is rather un boring. Anyways, were getting a bit off-topic, anyone else have some nice arguments? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well they arent always getting shot at. Most of the time they are guarding location x all day till they go sleep in a tent or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We should donate computers and copies of NS so they could lan heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have x-boxes and stuff in the navy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 19 2003, 05:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 19 2003, 05:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well to be fair i doubt manyt of them signed up with the exress intent of fighting in iraq. many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually there are people who are computer techs, repair men, nurses, cooks, janitors, etc. not everyone signed up for infantry.
well you can't send those guys in, praise whatever they do and then just tell them to SUYF if they complain. They might be complaing about certain conditions, treatment, the situation, whatever. We just don't know and those complaints have to be taken seriously at least.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jul 19 2003, 05:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 19 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 19 2003, 05:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 19 2003, 05:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Melatonin+Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Melatonin @ Jul 19 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well to be fair i doubt manyt of them signed up with the exress intent of fighting in iraq. many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually there are people who are computer techs, repair men, nurses, cooks, janitors, etc. not everyone signed up for infantry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes but there not the ones dying. So, their not the ones complaining.
hm but saying that CNN is biased is rediculous imo. Maybe for american circumstances it might be critical, but for the rest of the world it's just another american patriotic broadcast.
I must say, that because they did voulenteer and are being paid for it, they should have to fufill it, but I believe the whole message is probably being blown out of porportion by CNN just so they can get a new story.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
Well I am proud of this. We have collectivly proved that the NS community is not a giant gaggle of flame monkeys. Maybe now there can be more intelligent discussion threads.
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 19 2003, 03:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 19 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Right. This is an actual discussion. Ive seen other threads in here that have been allowed to die natural deaths and others that were nuked into oblivion. I think it really has to do with the flamey-ness of the contents. So, at the first sign of any flaming, i willingly give the thread to nukeage. Keep it civil please, I want to hear people honest opinions. Onward.
So. If you watch CNN at all, there have been a couple stories about soldiers in Iraq writing home to family saying how miserable it is, how stressful, and how much they want to come home. They have said that their morale is low and they no longer want to carry out their duties. Personnally, I think that this is a bit much. I mean, it is their job. Their job comes with being shot at and I dont really think this is quite appropriate. I know some people might not think I have a right to an opinion but I do know that these guys aren't conscripts. They are volunteers. Whats your opinion? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might start me off so hold me back if I get all hectic. Basically I empathise with people's problems to some extent, but I think we live in a society where we can blame others and get away with it too easily. And yes I blame shows like Oprah, etc. etc. The situation in America seems worst of all where people sue each other for the tiniest things, or for ultrastupid things - "I dried my dog in the microwave and it died! SUE SUE SUE!"
I think that troops only have a right to complain if it involves things like their government actually mistreating them properly - "discreetly" testing new drugs on them, etc. etc. Stuff like this they should put up with. Or they should quit the army once they realise how bad it can actually get.
True, but <i>they're in the constant danger of being shot at.</i>
See, I'm a concious objector. I know I couldn't kill, nor would I want to be killed. The basic mindset of a soldier is thus a little difficult to comprehend for me, but even <i>if</i> you had willingly and conciously decided for a way of life (which describes membership in an army way better than 'job') that includes the risk of a violent death, would you look at that prospect with a smile, or a frown on your face?
I for mine can fully understand the soldiers complaints. They were sent in for a quick war - which turns out to drag on, despite what was said on some aircraft carrier near the US' coast -, they were told they'd be returning months ago - and are now told they'll stay for undisclosed amounts of time -, they were told they'd be greeted as liberators - and are now forced to retreat from some cities because the air's just getting too hot in there. Now imagine being in that situation, with those promises in the back of your head, that head being in a base that's currently reinforced with yet another wall of barbwired fences, sandsacks, and checkpoints, or on the street, in the middle of a society that's still dominated by raids and the rule of the fist, and ask yourself what kind of letter <i>you'd</i> be sending home.
One of our members has a sig saying "Dying for your country doesn't make it a democracy, criticising it does.". Those people are willing to do both. How can you blame them?
If anything, I'd have to agree with Nem - the fact that many of the 3rd infantry division were scheduled to rotate home in a few months, but now having to stay indefinitely sucks. But they're still soldiers, and it's their job. If we want to blame or point fingers at the administration or whatnot, the elections are coming up next year, so do *your* job. (that last part was for americans)
I was watching CNN, and they were interviewing the soldiers and one of the questoins were, "What would you say to donald rumsfeld if he was here right now?"
He replied.
"I'd ask for him to resign."
I think what he said was totally unnecessary, and honestly, that guy should be court marshaled. No one argues with their commander in chief, and the people who do shouldnt even be involved with the military. I see there point....it must suck bein shot at and not being able to see their families...But how much thinking does it take to realize that your at war (was), and you will be there as long as your government tells you to do...no questoins asked. All of this is my opinion - keep that in mind, but the ones who were being disrespectful to Donald Rumsfeld need to be delt with.
Seems to me like suggesting that they shouldn't feel "down" at times is pretty weird.
You're telling me that <i>you</i> have never felt like ditching school or work?
Ok, so you've felt like ditching work or school once or twice. Now, how often would you like to skip out on said work or school if in going there, two of your best friends were shot and killed and you were wounded so horribly that you would take months, even a year to recover from it?
It still is their job, yes, but just think about what they go through.
<!--QuoteBegin--DuBERS+Jul 19 2003, 09:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuBERS @ Jul 19 2003, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They are only human. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> he summed it up perfectly...
but the only thing we are really free to do in life is make our own mind up.. and so surely if they make up theyre mind they have had enough they can leave?
<!--QuoteBegin--Duff-Man+Jul 20 2003, 01:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Jul 20 2003, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, so you've felt like ditching work or school once or twice. Now, how often would you like to skip out on said work or school if in going there, two of your best friends were shot and killed and you were wounded so horribly that you would take months, even a year to recover from it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What does school have to do with war? You can't compare school and war together, because those are two complete different subjects. You said, <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...two of your best friends were shot and killed and you were wounded so horribly that you would take months, even a year to recover from it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course it would take months and years to recover because coming to school to see 2 of my friends dead would be a shock to me and MANY others. In war, death isn't shocking because <b>WE KNOW</b> that there will always be death in wars. Our troops know what position they are in right now, and knowing that, they should be mentally prepared for what they do everyday. ie: Admitting that there is a high chance they (or their friends) could be killed at any given moment...I dont know about you, but when I go to school, I don't get prepared by tellling myself, "THere is a high possibility that my friends and I might die today." <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course this is all my opinion, but you can't compare war to an every day life event.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mullet+Jul 20 2003, 04:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mullet @ Jul 20 2003, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was watching CNN, and they were interviewing the soldiers and one of the questoins were, "What would you say to donald rumsfeld if he was here right now?"
He replied.
"I'd ask for him to resign."
I think what he said was totally unnecessary, and honestly, that guy should be court marshaled. No one argues with their commander in chief, and the people who do shouldnt even be involved with the military. I see there point....it must suck bein shot at and not being able to see their families...But how much thinking does it take to realize that your at war (was), and you will be there as long as your government tells you to do...no questoins asked. All of this is my opinion - keep that in mind, but the ones who were being disrespectful to Donald Rumsfeld need to be delt with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can fight for your country, but still fight for an unjust government.
You can hold an opinion, even if the matter doesn't concern you.
You can follow orders without agreeing with them.
You can say something, but not take it back.
-_-
Just relax a little dude, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.
Relax relax ^_^
If he is such a bad soldier, why is he still there? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
We should donate computers and copies of NS so they could lan heh.
Right back on topic. I don't know shore leave is usually like 2 weeks long, so I'd think they could fly somewhere (maybe even back home) for a week, while fresh soldiers took over. Not sure how it's working over there. Also I think the guerrula aspect of it might be getting to them, It's a real mental screw to fight an enemy that does hit and run tactics.
Keep in mind none of these are draftees (correct me if I'm wrong) so they are there because they chose to be there.
That would be true after the fact. When they retire, they can write a book. But now, when they are there trying to stay alive, saying things like this will only lesson the likelyhood of survival.
Think about it: They won, but yet they are still there, getting shot at by people that would not shoot at them if they just left like they are sposed to after they "win". They beat up the bad guy, and if they were listening to the pres. as much as we were they would have realised that G.W. promised to get them home as soon as possible, which has obviously not happened. That sucks.
many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions.
Keep in mind none of these are draftees (correct me if I'm wrong) so they are there because they chose to be there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, like I said before none of these guys are conscripts. But having a friend get greased would wear on you no matter who you are.
That would be true after the fact. When they retire, they can write a book. But now, when they are there trying to stay alive, saying things like this will only lesson the likelyhood of survival. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a little harsh, but true in a way. Also I think like I said earlier this might just be getting blown out of preportion by the media. Since CNN reported on it (somone said this earlier) and they tend to have slightly more negative views on the war than say Fox News, it might have been presented in a way to make it seem like there is a great deal of desperation. You have to remember they didn't interview everyone, and in my opinion that would be the only way to get an accurate story on this subject, but 200 thousand interviews would take up a lot of air time.
many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination.
Well they arent always getting shot at. Most of the time they are guarding location x all day till they go sleep in a tent or something.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We should donate computers and copies of NS so they could lan heh.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have x-boxes and stuff in the navy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually there are people who are computer techs, repair men, nurses, cooks, janitors, etc. not everyone signed up for infantry.
(btw. good job keeping this on topic you guys ;D)
many of them just wanted a secure job ill bet, but once they got you, they get to send you anywhere they want, regardless of your personal opinions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats just it, when you join any armed force, your opinion is gone. If they signed up during this century expecting not to fight well, I dunno they need some serioud mental examination. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually there are people who are computer techs, repair men, nurses, cooks, janitors, etc. not everyone signed up for infantry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but there not the ones dying. So, their not the ones complaining.
Anyway keep it chill ya'll
P.S. Seems this has simmered down a little bit, good timing too my supper is about to be ready. I shall return.
I must say, that because they did voulenteer and are being paid for it, they should have to fufill it, but I believe the whole message is probably being blown out of porportion by CNN just so they can get a new story.
So. If you watch CNN at all, there have been a couple stories about soldiers in Iraq writing home to family saying how miserable it is, how stressful, and how much they want to come home. They have said that their morale is low and they no longer want to carry out their duties. Personnally, I think that this is a bit much. I mean, it is their job. Their job comes with being shot at and I dont really think this is quite appropriate. I know some people might not think I have a right to an opinion but I do know that these guys aren't conscripts. They are volunteers. Whats your opinion? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might start me off so hold me back if I get all hectic. Basically I empathise with people's problems to some extent, but I think we live in a society where we can blame others and get away with it too easily. And yes I blame shows like Oprah, etc. etc. The situation in America seems worst of all where people sue each other for the tiniest things, or for ultrastupid things - "I dried my dog in the microwave and it died! SUE SUE SUE!"
I think that troops only have a right to complain if it involves things like their government actually mistreating them properly - "discreetly" testing new drugs on them, etc. etc. Stuff like this they should put up with. Or they should quit the army once they realise how bad it can actually get.
It's their job.
They're in the constant danger of being shot at.
Yea, but that's their <i>job</i>.
True, but <i>they're in the constant danger of being shot at.</i>
See, I'm a concious objector. I know I couldn't kill, nor would I want to be killed. The basic mindset of a soldier is thus a little difficult to comprehend for me, but even <i>if</i> you had willingly and conciously decided for a way of life (which describes membership in an army way better than 'job') that includes the risk of a violent death, would you look at that prospect with a smile, or a frown on your face?
I for mine can fully understand the soldiers complaints. They were sent in for a quick war - which turns out to drag on, despite what was said on some aircraft carrier near the US' coast -, they were told they'd be returning months ago - and are now told they'll stay for undisclosed amounts of time -, they were told they'd be greeted as liberators - and are now forced to retreat from some cities because the air's just getting too hot in there.
Now imagine being in that situation, with those promises in the back of your head, that head being in a base that's currently reinforced with yet another wall of barbwired fences, sandsacks, and checkpoints, or on the street, in the middle of a society that's still dominated by raids and the rule of the fist, and ask yourself what kind of letter <i>you'd</i> be sending home.
One of our members has a sig saying "Dying for your country doesn't make it a democracy, criticising it does.". Those people are willing to do both. How can you blame them?
He replied.
"I'd ask for him to resign."
I think what he said was totally unnecessary, and honestly, that guy should be court marshaled. No one argues with their commander in chief, and the people who do shouldnt even be involved with the military. I see there point....it must suck bein shot at and not being able to see their families...But how much thinking does it take to realize that your at war (was), and you will be there as long as your government tells you to do...no questoins asked. All of this is my opinion - keep that in mind, but the ones who were being disrespectful to Donald Rumsfeld need to be delt with.
You're telling me that <i>you</i> have never felt like ditching school or work?
Ok, so you've felt like ditching work or school once or twice. Now, how often would you like to skip out on said work or school if in going there, two of your best friends were shot and killed and you were wounded so horribly that you would take months, even a year to recover from it?
It still is their job, yes, but just think about what they go through.
he summed it up perfectly...
but the only thing we are really free to do in life is make our own mind up.. and so surely if they make up theyre mind they have had enough they can leave?
What does school have to do with war? You can't compare school and war together, because those are two complete different subjects. You said, <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...two of your best friends were shot and killed and you were wounded so horribly that you would take months, even a year to recover from it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course it would take months and years to recover because coming to school to see 2 of my friends dead would be a shock to me and MANY others. In war, death isn't shocking because <b>WE KNOW</b> that there will always be death in wars. Our troops know what position they are in right now, and knowing that, they should be mentally prepared for what they do everyday. ie: Admitting that there is a high chance they (or their friends) could be killed at any given moment...I dont know about you, but when I go to school, I don't get prepared by tellling myself, "THere is a high possibility that my friends and I might die today." <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course this is all my opinion, but you can't compare war to an every day life event.
He replied.
"I'd ask for him to resign."
I think what he said was totally unnecessary, and honestly, that guy should be court marshaled. No one argues with their commander in chief, and the people who do shouldnt even be involved with the military. I see there point....it must suck bein shot at and not being able to see their families...But how much thinking does it take to realize that your at war (was), and you will be there as long as your government tells you to do...no questoins asked. All of this is my opinion - keep that in mind, but the ones who were being disrespectful to Donald Rumsfeld need to be delt with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can fight for your country, but still fight for an unjust government.
You can hold an opinion, even if the matter doesn't concern you.
You can follow orders without agreeing with them.
You can say something, but not take it back.
-_-
Just relax a little dude, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.
Relax relax ^_^
If he is such a bad soldier, why is he still there? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->