I always thought a rather cool idea for the seige would be to be able to use it in conjunction with some sort of laser designator. Increase the seige's damage against buildings, decrease the damage against aliens, and have it so that the seige will fire wherever the laser is pointed, within range. This would add more strategy to seiging, and make it more powerful for the marines if used in conjunction with good tactics, but would also give the kharaa a chance to protect their hive - the marine must be able to see the target. At the same time, said marine is temporarily defenceless, and has to rely either on the seige or on other players/turrets to defend himself, promoting teamwork. Every marine would probably carry one in some special weapon slot (so as not to interfere with regular weapon selection), to avoid further complication; the commander has too much to do already without having to arrange for marines to come back and pick up special tools. Seiges would obviously respond to the closest target given to them. A possibility is that the laser beam would be visible, making it easier for the kharaa to track the marine. I can see so many more options and strategies that could be employed with this system over the current one, although clearly it would have to wait for post-2.0.
Siegings are cool. Its like your heavy artillery thingie. You got too much trouble getting a well camped Hive, Siege it. It makes the defending Aliens switch to offensive. It gives much more depth and options to the game. And if you re not scouting, not even predicting posibble dangerous enemy moves, you should loose. This game is not only about buildorders its also about actions. You can distract there, and stealthly do that in the meantime. Tough luck, but at least you learn from all this ;D
The SIege isn't used enough, When ever I take a hive, I always drop a Siege or two with a Phase and Turrets, to keep any attemps at taking the hive back by having DC on the far side of a wall to heal, not possible.
I almost Laugh when I read "Unballanced" threads, because the people who post them most likely never played back in 1.0 days when you have things like: -DCs that healed at 100% every 2 seconds -SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters -Hives that cost 100 res to build -Hacks where Aliens could use a Marine body and gun, Run at 200 Kph and wipe out a whole team with a knife -Farms of OCs are far as the eye could see with no limits -Siege cannons with HUGE range that auto targeted -Turrets that were so inaccurate that you could chomp on it as it fired at you and it would miss everytime -TFs that didn't stop Turrets from working once it was destroyed -Phase gates that would teleport you as soon as you walk towards it and everyone else at the same time killing 3 or 4 ppl at once. -Ammo in the guns was all messed up
There are more things I am forgetting, but I remember all of these things and when I left and came back once 1.04 was out, it was a totally new game to me!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From Stoneburg : I once lost a game because the other team played a lot better then us, this needs to be fixed, it's not fair.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Losing a game because of sieging is very frustrating, not unbalanced.
Now, if you don't check or secure places like keyhole, processing, cargo or redroom, and/or if you don't, as a gorge, drop a few OCs on your hives' ways, be prepared for great frustrating moments.
<!--QuoteBegin--briDge+Jul 16 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Jul 16 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The siege cannon, in all aspects, is unbalanced in favor of the marines, and it needs severe tweaking. I do not think it should be removed, nor do I think that the only solution is giving the aliens a siege equivalent, but it needs tweaking. The problem is this. The fact that siege has an immense range and the ability to go through walls means that aliens, to secure and hold a hive, must hold a defensive perimeter around all of thier hives WITHOUT the use of buildings, because all alien buildings are prone to siege. Basically what this means is that all hives must be defended at all times by players, not remote buildings that are supposed to be fulfilling the sentry duty. Alien players need to constantly patroll all of the possible siege locations or risk losing everything they built, because the marines can extend their offense to an untouchable area.
I was just playing a game on ns_nothing. As usual, the marines immediately relocated to cargo and thus had plentiful resources throughout the game. However, the alien team got the viaduct hive, quickly expanded to Powersilo, and webbed everything up, putting offensive and defensive chambers everywhere. Thinking we had both hives secured (there was no way in hell a jetpacker could get in, and heavies would give us tons of time to move our fades down to the hive under attack) we went on to wipe out generator. Great. Thats when the fun began. Someone spotted a phase gate near viaduct. The whole team comes racing there, but thanks to the bountiful resources of Cargo, they had instantly gotten a turret factory in the process of upgrading, about 8 turrets, and the whole team was there. They proceeded to siege out viaduct, but we cleaned them out with our fades and put the hive up again. we went back to reclean out generator when again we hear the "structure is under attack" sound. This time from powersilo. There are about 400 locations you can siege powersilo from, so just finding the siege took time. By the time we found it, not only was the powersilo hive down, but there were 8 turrets and three quarters of the marine force protecting it. With level 3 weapons, thats untouchable if they keep up the grenade spam. I then left the game, realizing that a single marine, just by himself, could establish a phase gate, and have the entire team at a sieging location in less than 15 seconds. ANYWHERE on the map. And to prevent that, we would have to have all 10 of our players patrolling the hundreds of possible siege locations constantly, which would make the game never end, or result in the marines simply pooling resources and sending 10 heavy armors at us, in full upgrades.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the first thing that jumped out at me...
The marines relocated to Cargo.. and it seems like nothing was even attempted to be done about it..
That was when this map was lost... with all the twists turns and lack of open spaces around cargo (room with things) there is no excuse why you can't stop a relocation to there...
3 res towers so close to your base and easily defendable is why they could afford to seige you over and over and over.
I agree with others.. I wish Seige was more used.. I love the look and feel of it.. (I think that's why I've been playing Seige005 and Seige006 so much recently..)
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 17 2003, 09:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 17 2003, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The SIege isn't used enough, When ever I take a hive, I always drop a Siege or two with a Phase and Turrets, to keep any attemps at taking the hive back by having DC on the far side of a wall to heal, not possible.
I almost Laugh when I read "Unballanced" threads, because the people who post them most likely never played back in 1.0 days when you have things like: -DCs that healed at 100% every 2 seconds -SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters -Hives that cost 100 res to build -Hacks where Aliens could use a Marine body and gun, Run at 200 Kph and wipe out a whole team with a knife -Farms of OCs are far as the eye could see with no limits -Siege cannons with HUGE range that auto targeted -Turrets that were so inaccurate that you could chomp on it as it fired at you and it would miss everytime -TFs that didn't stop Turrets from working once it was destroyed -Phase gates that would teleport you as soon as you walk towards it and everyone else at the same time killing 3 or 4 ppl at once. -Ammo in the guns was all messed up
There are more things I am forgetting, but I remember all of these things and when I left and came back once 1.04 was out, it was a totally new game to me! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and that, my son, is the biggest mixture of truth, lies, myths, and predictions.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> -SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Jul 17 2003, 07:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Jul 17 2003, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> -SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It didn't. That feature is in 2.0, just not with that range. That list was way off man...
<!--QuoteBegin--Frikk+Jul 17 2003, 02:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Jul 17 2003, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Jul 17 2003, 07:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Jul 17 2003, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 17 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> -SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It didn't. That feature is in 2.0, just not with that range. That list was way off man... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember the SC use to Cloak back in the day.. didn't they? I'm sure they did, I was happy when I read that in 2.0 they are going to do that again. I sware they did, but that was a year ago and I did miss build 1.01, .02, .03 before I came back in .04 What else did I mess up?
Maybe this should be in suggestions but... U could have it so the marines laser targeter works (flashlight key turns it on and of). And the marines have to keep the laser pointer on what they want to target with the seige cannon. Kinda like a laser guided missile. If the marines lose the lock the then the SG stops firing.
JP marines would have a hard time keeping the laser on the target when they are flying around. And HA marines would need backup if they r gonna stand there and use the laser targeter.
I think that would balance the seige out as it would only fire when it is has a LOS or a scout sighting for it.
Do some of you guys not know what sieges actually do? A lot of you say "oh they suck balls" and "oh they're useless" but have you ever actually used one? I would say that over 50% of the marine wins I've seen were directly caused by the marines sieging the hives. With heavies and hmgs, you can still get stuck on a web and be eaten alive by 1 skulk. 2 skulk with 1 gorg can take out an entire team of heavies. They just web you once and you can't move for at least 5 seconds. With a siege there is no risk of webbing, you don't have to advance, you just need to hold your position. Siege guns also have considerable amounts of life so if you have just a few guys defending it really half assed, the enemy still won't be able to destroy it. A lot of the time you can siege the hive from quite a distance. For example, in that map with the no name hive (default map), you can siege the subspace array hive from a good 15 second jog away. For the aliens to stop you, they have to run around the corner and down a long **** hallway where they get shot to crap by the marines. In that viaduct hive, you can siege the hive from a different floor and with a good running distance away, any skulk tries to climb up the ladder you just pop him one. For the datacore hive, you can siege it from processing which is around 2 corners and is at least a 10 second run away. On the same map as datacore, you can siege the ventilation hive all the way from processing, to get from ventilation to processing the aliens have to all go through a narrow tunnel which makes them easy targets. In another default map, the maintenance hive can be sieged from an elevated level and down a ramp, for any alien to get up there they have to either climb a ladder which makes them easy targets or run around the long way which takes about 20 seconds and also makes them easy targets.
They are more balanced than they were before (the whole super long range thing) but don't make the mistake of saying they suck.
As far as I know, In 1.04 there's only one place where sieges are actually really good and that's on Hera: you can siege 2 hives at once from Processing. Kind of a pain in the butt to defend for the marines since there's so many entrances, though. Yes, I know that's a map bug and it's going away in 2.0.
Otherwise, if you're losing to sieges, you'd probably have lost anyway to some other stronger marine strategy. Having said all that, in less organised games sieges can sometimes be useful because it's generally easier to defend a static location than to attack (potentially into ambushes).
Do sieges actually suck? No, they're better than an all-knife rush, but it's generally worse than other strategies the marines can use if they have an organised team.
Why do newbies complain that sieges are unfair? I would guess because the aliens do not have an equivalent - they don't have anything that can attack indirectly - so that is perceived as unbalanced.
<!--QuoteBegin--ShawnD+Jul 17 2003, 03:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShawnD @ Jul 17 2003, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> With heavies and hmgs, you can still get stuck on a web and be eaten alive by 1 skulk. 2 skulk with 1 gorg can take out an entire team of heavies. They just web you once and you can't move for at least 5 seconds. With a siege there is no risk of webbing, you don't have to advance, you just need to hold your position. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, I think siege is a lot safer way to deal with alien hives compared to charging in with HA/HMG squad. With a couple of good gorges webbing and a lerk umbraing it can be hell to get a hive down with heavies.
I don't get why the author is complaining about the siege. In my opinion it was really noble from the marine side to blow up the hive with a siege instead of just charging in with JP/HMGers. It's no way "unfair" that you have to check areas near hive for possible siege, because marines need to guard their base just as well for a possible sneak attack. Put an OC to every possible siege location next time so theres no way they can ninja-siege your hive if you still find it disturbing. Only annoying spots for the siege that I can come up with is Prosessing and Red Room.
Post number and registration date means nothing, I've been playing MUCH longer than most of you have. I play on a VERY good server with incredibly experienced players, and I'm ranked #2 overall with #2 and #3 rankings in bitekills and LMG kills respectively. I digress, and attempting to prove my validity just makes me stoop to your level. You're all elitist morons who think you understand the game on a plane far above my understanding, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyways this post has clarified a lot about the community here, which is enough for me.
well you shouldn't be judged on your date of registration or post count... i mean you have more posts than some PT's <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> they just hold a higher rank... anyways im glad im #1 on my server in almost everything <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> so special but man... do not leave right before the fun begins.. just cause a few people give you **** that doesn't mean we all are... <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--briDge+Jul 17 2003, 03:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Jul 17 2003, 03:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Jul 16 2003, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Jul 16 2003, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Buildings as sentries? Umm, your buildings aren't supposed to be the defense. YOU are. You have much to learn, young grasshopper.
Static defenses SLOW enemies down. That's ALL they are for. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> the via hive has at least 4 unique spots to siege from, and powersilo at least 5. When you have 2 young hives in the mid game, with maybe 2 or 3 of these possible sieging locations well defended, you still have a gaping hole in your hive defense because, like I said, the aliens must extend thier defensive perimeter beyond their structures, and maintain it. I am aware that the offensive and defensive chambers aren't going to single handedly thwart a marine attack on a hive. That's not what I meant by sentry. thier purpose is to serve as watchtowers, because of the high mobility of the aliens. The "structure is under attack" and the red blip on hivesight is the offensive tower doing its job, allowing you to get your whole team to the hive under attack and stop the threat before it is on top of the hive.
BUT in the case of siege, because of the MANY viable sieging locations on all maps, when you have 2 fresh hives with not much more than a few buildings for defense, one of those spots is open. And it only takes one of those spots for a lone marine to set up a phase gate, turret factory, and turrets in less than a minute. then its a simple matter of waiting for the turret factory upgrade before the hive is eliminated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again I reiterate that ns_nothing is baised towards marines.
Here's a tip to those who don't know this: BUILD defenses at and around hives BEFORE you put down the hive! If you put WOLs at the seige spots before you put up the hive, then the marines will have to work a LOT harder to set up a seige to hit your hive right? If you don't want to wait, have your team hit the marine base, and hope your team can dstract the marine team for long enough for you to neglect defense for a while and go straight for the hive. If you just LET marines do whatever they want, unharassed, you will lose!
m8, get a hold of yourself... nobody cares if you have 17 posts and nobody cares if you have 300% of kill ratio with bitegun and LMG...
That's brainstorming, not a congress bill... everybody told you that you lack a complete vision of the game... of curse some tactics are powerfull if used in the right manner... but what the hell, even onos are! The point is not to weaken the tactic, it's to give the other team the opportunity to PREVENT that tactic from being done.
As someone in the old 1.04 said: if you let marines siege your hive, you deserve to loose.
<!--QuoteBegin--Niteowl+Jul 16 2003, 03:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Niteowl @ Jul 16 2003, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->anyhoo, man, it must have been insane for you to play when sieges auto acquired targets <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Those were the days my friend..=). Basically it was bloodbath...
I think it all comes down to which side you favor more. I know I am biased towards Marines, so I am well aware of the difficulty involved in getting a tf and seige up and am less sympathetic to aliens who think it's unfair. Remember, on most maps its hard enough to even get a tf up near a hive, much less the turrets needed to defend it (which MUST go up before the siege can truly be viable). It's true that once the siege is up the aliens are in hot water, but sometimes getting the complete tf, turrets, siege package up is very very hard to begin with, what with aliens attacking all over the map and threatening whatever main base is.
I think another problem is the wide variability of team skills. A poor marine team has a VERY hard time getting anywhere near sieging the correct hives. A good team can do it like clockwork. But on public servers you really don't know what you are going to get. You could well get a team of people spamming music and trying for knife kills. The real problem with this game is that it has to accomodate all these different situaitons and team skill levels while still remaining balanced and fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--briDge+Jul 18 2003, 02:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Jul 18 2003, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry all I can do is laugh.
Post number and registration date means nothing, I've been playing MUCH longer than most of you have. I play on a VERY good server with incredibly experienced players, and I'm ranked #2 overall with #2 and #3 rankings in bitekills and LMG kills respectively. I digress, and attempting to prove my validity just makes me stoop to your level. You're all elitist morons who think you understand the game on a plane far above my understanding, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyways this post has clarified a lot about the community here, which is enough for me.
farewell <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, I'm glad he left the server ip and name so we could clairfy his uber "skills"
Comments
This game is not only about buildorders its also about actions. You can distract there, and stealthly do that in the meantime. Tough luck, but at least you learn from all this ;D
I almost Laugh when I read "Unballanced" threads, because the people who post them most likely never played back in 1.0 days when you have things like:
-DCs that healed at 100% every 2 seconds
-SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters
-Hives that cost 100 res to build
-Hacks where Aliens could use a Marine body and gun, Run at 200 Kph and wipe out a whole team with a knife
-Farms of OCs are far as the eye could see with no limits
-Siege cannons with HUGE range that auto targeted
-Turrets that were so inaccurate that you could chomp on it as it fired at you and it would miss everytime
-TFs that didn't stop Turrets from working once it was destroyed
-Phase gates that would teleport you as soon as you walk towards it and everyone else at the same time killing 3 or 4 ppl at once.
-Ammo in the guns was all messed up
There are more things I am forgetting, but I remember all of these things and when I left and came back once 1.04 was out, it was a totally new game to me!
I once lost a game because the other team played a lot better then us, this needs to be fixed, it's not fair.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Losing a game because of sieging is very frustrating, not unbalanced.
Now, if you don't check or secure places like keyhole, processing, cargo or redroom, and/or if you don't, as a gorge, drop a few OCs on your hives' ways, be prepared for great frustrating moments.
I was just playing a game on ns_nothing. As usual, the marines immediately relocated to cargo and thus had plentiful resources throughout the game. However, the alien team got the viaduct hive, quickly expanded to Powersilo, and webbed everything up, putting offensive and defensive chambers everywhere. Thinking we had both hives secured (there was no way in hell a jetpacker could get in, and heavies would give us tons of time to move our fades down to the hive under attack) we went on to wipe out generator. Great. Thats when the fun began. Someone spotted a phase gate near viaduct. The whole team comes racing there, but thanks to the bountiful resources of Cargo, they had instantly gotten a turret factory in the process of upgrading, about 8 turrets, and the whole team was there. They proceeded to siege out viaduct, but we cleaned them out with our fades and put the hive up again. we went back to reclean out generator when again we hear the "structure is under attack" sound. This time from powersilo. There are about 400 locations you can siege powersilo from, so just finding the siege took time. By the time we found it, not only was the powersilo hive down, but there were 8 turrets and three quarters of the marine force protecting it. With level 3 weapons, thats untouchable if they keep up the grenade spam. I then left the game, realizing that a single marine, just by himself, could establish a phase gate, and have the entire team at a sieging location in less than 15 seconds. ANYWHERE on the map. And to prevent that, we would have to have all 10 of our players patrolling the hundreds of possible siege locations constantly, which would make the game never end, or result in the marines simply pooling resources and sending 10 heavy armors at us, in full upgrades.
Siege needs to be reworked. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/newbie2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The marines relocated to Cargo.. and it seems like nothing was even attempted to be done about it..
That was when this map was lost...
with all the twists turns and lack of open spaces around cargo (room with things) there is no excuse why you can't stop a relocation to there...
3 res towers so close to your base and easily defendable is why they could afford to seige you over and over and over.
I agree with others.. I wish Seige was more used.. I love the look and feel of it.. (I think that's why I've been playing Seige005 and Seige006 so much recently..)
I almost Laugh when I read "Unballanced" threads, because the people who post them most likely never played back in 1.0 days when you have things like:
-DCs that healed at 100% every 2 seconds
-SCs that cloaked you and everything else for 100 meters
-Hives that cost 100 res to build
-Hacks where Aliens could use a Marine body and gun, Run at 200 Kph and wipe out a whole team with a knife
-Farms of OCs are far as the eye could see with no limits
-Siege cannons with HUGE range that auto targeted
-Turrets that were so inaccurate that you could chomp on it as it fired at you and it would miss everytime
-TFs that didn't stop Turrets from working once it was destroyed
-Phase gates that would teleport you as soon as you walk towards it and everyone else at the same time killing 3 or 4 ppl at once.
-Ammo in the guns was all messed up
There are more things I am forgetting, but I remember all of these things and when I left and came back once 1.04 was out, it was a totally new game to me! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and that, my son, is the biggest mixture of truth, lies, myths, and predictions.
I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It didn't. That feature is in 2.0, just not with that range. That list was way off man...
I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It didn't. That feature is in 2.0, just not with that range. That list was way off man... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember the SC use to Cloak back in the day.. didn't they?
I'm sure they did, I was happy when I read that in 2.0 they are going to do that again. I sware they did, but that was a year ago and I did miss build 1.01, .02, .03 before I came back in .04
What else did I mess up?
U could have it so the marines laser targeter works (flashlight key turns it on and of). And the marines have to keep the laser pointer on what they want to target with the seige cannon. Kinda like a laser guided missile. If the marines lose the lock the then the SG stops firing.
JP marines would have a hard time keeping the laser on the target when they are flying around.
And HA marines would need backup if they r gonna stand there and use the laser targeter.
I think that would balance the seige out as it would only fire when it is has a LOS or a scout sighting for it.
They are more balanced than they were before (the whole super long range thing) but don't make the mistake of saying they suck.
Otherwise, if you're losing to sieges, you'd probably have lost anyway to some other stronger marine strategy. Having said all that, in less organised games sieges can sometimes be useful because it's generally easier to defend a static location than to attack (potentially into ambushes).
Do sieges actually suck? No, they're better than an all-knife rush, but it's generally worse than other strategies the marines can use if they have an organised team.
Why do newbies complain that sieges are unfair? I would guess because the aliens do not have an equivalent - they don't have anything that can attack indirectly - so that is perceived as unbalanced.
Yup, I think siege is a lot safer way to deal with alien hives compared to charging in with HA/HMG squad. With a couple of good gorges webbing and a lerk umbraing it can be hell to get a hive down with heavies.
I don't get why the author is complaining about the siege. In my opinion it was really noble from the marine side to blow up the hive with a siege instead of just charging in with JP/HMGers. It's no way "unfair" that you have to check areas near hive for possible siege, because marines need to guard their base just as well for a possible sneak attack. Put an OC to every possible siege location next time so theres no way they can ninja-siege your hive if you still find it disturbing. Only annoying spots for the siege that I can come up with is Prosessing and Red Room.
Post number and registration date means nothing, I've been playing MUCH longer than most of you have. I play on a VERY good server with incredibly experienced players, and I'm ranked #2 overall with #2 and #3 rankings in bitekills and LMG kills respectively. I digress, and attempting to prove my validity just makes me stoop to your level. You're all elitist morons who think you understand the game on a plane far above my understanding, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyways this post has clarified a lot about the community here, which is enough for me.
farewell
Static defenses SLOW enemies down. That's ALL they are for. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the via hive has at least 4 unique spots to siege from, and powersilo at least 5. When you have 2 young hives in the mid game, with maybe 2 or 3 of these possible sieging locations well defended, you still have a gaping hole in your hive defense because, like I said, the aliens must extend thier defensive perimeter beyond their structures, and maintain it. I am aware that the offensive and defensive chambers aren't going to single handedly thwart a marine attack on a hive. That's not what I meant by sentry. thier purpose is to serve as watchtowers, because of the high mobility of the aliens. The "structure is under attack" and the red blip on hivesight is the offensive tower doing its job, allowing you to get your whole team to the hive under attack and stop the threat before it is on top of the hive.
BUT in the case of siege, because of the MANY viable sieging locations on all maps, when you have 2 fresh hives with not much more than a few buildings for defense, one of those spots is open. And it only takes one of those spots for a lone marine to set up a phase gate, turret factory, and turrets in less than a minute. then its a simple matter of waiting for the turret factory upgrade before the hive is eliminated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again I reiterate that ns_nothing is baised towards marines.
Here's a tip to those who don't know this: BUILD defenses at and around hives BEFORE you put down the hive! If you put WOLs at the seige spots before you put up the hive, then the marines will have to work a LOT harder to set up a seige to hit your hive right? If you don't want to wait, have your team hit the marine base, and hope your team can dstract the marine team for long enough for you to neglect defense for a while and go straight for the hive. If you just LET marines do whatever they want, unharassed, you will lose!
That's brainstorming, not a congress bill... everybody told you that you lack a complete vision of the game... of curse some tactics are powerfull if used in the right manner... but what the hell, even onos are!
The point is not to weaken the tactic, it's to give the other team the opportunity to PREVENT that tactic from being done.
As someone in the old 1.04 said: if you let marines siege your hive, you deserve to loose.
Far Thee Well.
Those were the days my friend..=). Basically it was bloodbath...
I think another problem is the wide variability of team skills. A poor marine team has a VERY hard time getting anywhere near sieging the correct hives. A good team can do it like clockwork. But on public servers you really don't know what you are going to get. You could well get a team of people spamming music and trying for knife kills. The real problem with this game is that it has to accomodate all these different situaitons and team skill levels while still remaining balanced and fun.
I am almost sure this never happened. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, SCs never cloaked anything.
Post number and registration date means nothing, I've been playing MUCH longer than most of you have. I play on a VERY good server with incredibly experienced players, and I'm ranked #2 overall with #2 and #3 rankings in bitekills and LMG kills respectively. I digress, and attempting to prove my validity just makes me stoop to your level. You're all elitist morons who think you understand the game on a plane far above my understanding, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyways this post has clarified a lot about the community here, which is enough for me.
farewell <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, I'm glad he left the server ip and name so we could clairfy his uber "skills"
Oh well, jerks will be jerks.