YEHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YEHAAAAAA JUHUUUUUUUUU YYYYYEHAAAAAAAAA YEAH YEAH JUHU YEHAAAAAAA MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAA YUUUUUUHHHHUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
Ah, forgive me, nevermind, just a little happy
We got a closed case closed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh and thx Andrew, you made my day <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i think u should just get a rank when u kill a number of skulks or marines in a row, like in unreal, the more people u kill u dont get anything like res or more power, u just get a notice like, KILLING SPREE! heh <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't you think it will be possible for the marine team to just camp in the start room, hump on ammo and shoot the res out of the skulks? When the Onos arrive, they would already have HAs and HMGs... Or maybe I'm wrong and there won't be so much resources for a kill...
<!--QuoteBegin--RPG_Jssmfulhud+Jul 13 2003, 02:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RPG_Jssmfulhud @ Jul 13 2003, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you think it will be possible for the marine team to just camp in the start room, hump on ammo and shoot the res out of the skulks? When the Onos arrive, they would already have HAs and HMGs... Or maybe I'm wrong and there won't be so much resources for a kill... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, because you can get at most 3 res for a kill.
If the marines turtle in their base, they will loose badly. Smart alien teams will just let them stay there and not attack into the base.
Khaara will quickly have every RT and three hives, and then it's game over.
(Imagines 6 3-hive upgraded Onos attacking one base. shudder)
<!--QuoteBegin--RPG_Jssmfulhud+Jul 13 2003, 02:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RPG_Jssmfulhud @ Jul 13 2003, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you think it will be possible for the marine team to just camp in the start room, hump on ammo and shoot the res out of the skulks? When the Onos arrive, they would already have HAs and HMGs... Or maybe I'm wrong and there won't be so much resources for a kill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you just sit in your base the aliens will get 3 hives and own you.
This also requires the aliens to be so stupid to keep rushing the marines, and not wait til they get higher lvl evolutions.
Heh, ture... It seems I need more sleep these days. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Teamplay incentives: GOOD! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> then i dunno, why do we have res for kills then? i figured that was the bad one, the unreal idea doesnt give u anything except confidence <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
well the only problem is that the playtesters are all of high skill right? (veterans were picked from the top clans)
what happens when you mix high skill and noobs together? you guys are basicly playtesting a clan war
i am just worryed about public servers where people are not of the same skill.
PS no offence was ment to anyone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I tend to agree with Catpoker. I *do* trust Flayra, and the Playtesters and Veterans. I believe them when they say "it works". However, as Catpoker mentioned, I feel there may be a growing disparity between the PT/Vet group and the general playing public.
Originally, the Playtesters were used to test things and make sure it had a good flow, among other things. There was concern that this would lead to balanced public games, but perhaps badly balanced clan games, and rightly so. Clan wars are, with few exceptions, highly skilled and brutal affairs, much different than from a public game. Because of this, the Veterans were brought in, so that Clan version of the Playtesters could help give feedback from the clan side of things.
This has worked fairly well, it would seem. However, the problem now (potentially) lies with the playtesters, in the sense that they have been playing long enough that they may have gotten too good. What I mean by this is that given enough playing time, your skill is bound to get high, if it wasn't already. The playtesters, while perhaps not as skilled on average as the Veterans, may still be be substantially more skilled than the average public player, and herein lies the problem:
If this is the case, then the high-skill/experience players have a representation in the Veterans, and the medium-high skill/experience players have a representation in the Playtesters, but the average to below average skill/experience players will not be represented at all. (By the way, the above paragraph was a generalization. I wasn't trying to say that there are no highly-skilled PTs and no less than amazing Vets.)
What happens is that features that play well and "work" with the Vets and PTs may not necessarily work as well with the rest of the public. The real danger would be if those features didn't simply work less well, but almost didn't work at all.
I don't know if the above is true, or how often new Playtesters are brought in, which would help to alleviate the problem (Assuming that they were somewhat newer players), but it is a theory of something that could go, or be going, wrong. We all know that the average public game is radically different from a clan game, and even from a public game with a lot of experienced and skilled people in it on both sides. I just worry that NS 2.0 will be released to the public and experience real problems, simply from the disparity.
Again, I trust the PTs, Vets, and most of all Flayra, and grant that NS 2.0 having many problems upon its release seems unlikely, even to me. The resources for kills for Marines feature just got me thinking about it, and the above scenario could affect other features as well, although I am quite happy with the sound of almost all of NS 2.0. This is just a possibility I wanted to raise for consideration.
Thanks for reading all of this, and to those who didn't, you may not have missed much... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
well the only problem is that the playtesters are all of high skill right? (veterans were picked from the top clans)
what happens when you mix high skill and noobs together? you guys are basicly playtesting a clan war
i am just worryed about public servers where people are not of the same skill.
PS no offence was ment to anyone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I tend to agree with Catpoker. I *do* trust Flayra, and the Playtesters and Veterans. I believe them when they say "it works". However, as Catpoker mentioned, I feel there may be a growing disparity between the PT/Vet group and the general playing public.
Originally, the Playtesters were used to test things and make sure it had a good flow, among other things. There was concern that this would lead to balanced public games, but perhaps badly balanced clan games, and rightly so. Clan wars are, with few exceptions, highly skilled and brutal affairs, much different than from a public game. Because of this, the Veterans were brought in, so that Clan version of the Playtesters could help give feedback from the clan side of things.
This has worked fairly well, it would seem. However, the problem now (potentially) lies with the playtesters, in the sense that they have been playing long enough that they may have gotten too good. What I mean by this is that given enough playing time, your skill is bound to get high, if it wasn't already. The playtesters, while perhaps not as skilled on average as the Veterans, may still be be substantially more skilled than the average public player, and herein lies the problem:
If this is the case, then the high-skill/experience players have a representation in the Veterans, and the medium-high skill/experience players have a representation in the Playtesters, but the average to below average skill/experience players will not be represented at all. (By the way, the above paragraph was a generalization. I wasn't trying to say that there are no highly-skilled PTs and no less than amazing Vets.)
What happens is that features that play well and "work" with the Vets and PTs may not necessarily work as well with the rest of the public. The real danger would be if those features didn't simply work less well, but almost didn't work at all.
I don't know if the above is true, or how often new Playtesters are brought in, which would help to alleviate the problem (Assuming that they were somewhat newer players), but it is a theory of something that could go, or be going, wrong. We all know that the average public game is radically different from a clan game, and even from a public game with a lot of experience and skilled people in it on both sides. I just worry that NS 2.0 will be released to the public and experience real problems, simply from the disparity.
Again, I trust the PTs, Vets, and most of all Flayra, and grant that NS 2.0 having many problems upon its release seems unlikely, even to me. The resources for kills for Marines feature just got me thinking about it, and the above scenario could affect other features as well, although I am quite happy with the sound of almost all of NS 2.0. This is just a possibility I wanted to raise for consideration.
Thanks for reading all of this, and to those who didn't, you may not have missed much... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Twilight <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> PTs have a quite a large range of skill
<!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jul 13 2003, 02:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jul 13 2003, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> PTs have a quite a large range of skill <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then that would help soothe some of my fears, and that's good to know. In the long run, even if things don't work well, I have confidence in Flayra's ability to patch things so that they *do* work well, as he has so often done before.
<!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jul 10 2003, 10:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jul 10 2003, 10:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You get money in cs for killing players, but no one seems to mind even when it's a <i>realism</i> mod...
No i'm not comparing cs to ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> cs???a realism mod?? hahahahaahaa!!!!! ur funny <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Twilight[ChBr]+Jul 13 2003, 03:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ Jul 13 2003, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the long run, even if things don't work well, I have confidence in Flayra's ability to patch things so that they *do* work well, as he has so often done before. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And that's the reason why I don't post about v2.0 anymore.
Nobody, and I mean <b>NOBODY</b> (Including Flay, PTs or Vets) will know just exactly how RfKs will go down when it hits pubs. Playtesting will never truly replicate the randomness of skills and teamwork of pub play.
Ok, teamplay gives you a better killratio, which means rfk will benefit the team that works together more. It actually makes sense now. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I wish someone had said this on page 1. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still get the feeling that alien-only res for kills would be better for the atmosphere, and still promote teamplay. Marines would have to weigh the risk of getting killed and thus feeding the aliens res against the need to pressure the aliens to prevent them from growing and expanding too much. The marines would still have to move in groups to avoid getting killed easily, while the aliens could suicide without much worry, although working together and actually killing the marines would help them more. I'm pretty sure that originally it was said that alien ramboing was intended to be encouraged.
I think it all depends on what the marines are supposed to be doing... Are they fighting to survive, or are they hunting the aliens? I suppose I, personally, have always seen it as a fight for survival, and so the marines should pretty much avoid conflict unless it was necessary to keep the aliens weak. If it's supposed to be more a "hunt the aliens" kind of thing, then I suppose marines seeking out conflict would make sense, thus res-for-kills for them makes sense, not literally, but as an incentive.
I'd also like to say that I hate the fact that any sort of discussion, speculation, even questions, about 2.0 by "members", IE not vets/PTs, is immediately jumped on and made out to be "complaining" and "whining" by certain people. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
We tried aliens only getting res for kills, The aliens dominated.
1 of the reasons Flayra put marines res for kills back in is because aliens could just throw themselves at the marines maybe get a kill 1-3res and marines get nothing, there was basically no penalty.
If it's a balance issue only, then why not just make all marine res costs 20% lower, or whatever is needed to balance it, basically, whatever the amount of difference the res-for-kills typically makes in the total resource amount in a game? Have marine weapons all do 30% more damage, give the marines more resources per rt per tick, whatever. There's plenty of ways to balance things, without having to give both teams the same thing.
Aliens throwing themselves at marines constantly sounds like exactly what NS needs, atmosphere-wise. Make the marines feel they're under attack constantly, and make them afraid to die. I know I'd be afraid of those aliens, marine training or not. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I remember seeing a post in the suggestion forum to have the alien respawn time removed, letting aliens respawn instantly. Almost everyone agreed that it'd be great for the atmosphere, hordes of skulks and all that. Obviously, it wouldn't work with 1.0 or 2.0, but the responses it got do show that most people think suicidal aliens "make sense".
Having res for kills would really take away from the overall idea of the aliens vs humans type setting. Right now, NS is much like the movie Aliens where the humans have to work together and it matters when 1 dies but the aliens just rush at things and it doesn't really matter how many of them die. It doesn't seem right to have the bugs/aliens act as thinkers. All bugs that have hives (ants, bees, mites,...) always think in terms of team first which in many cases means attack now and attack hard. Bees for example, will sting threats to the hive even though the sting itself actually kills the bee. Making the aliens actually think before just rushing in an attacking would sort of take away the whole atmosphere of the game. One of the things that makes NS so different from other mods is that the atmosphere is nothing like CS or TFC.
This argument was already said before (not by me) but it's a good enough argument to say again.
And for the record, I too like exceptionaly long games. A few times I've played a match that lasted just over 2 hours. It's much harder to turn away from the game in the middle of the round than it is after a round has ended. Long rounds are what make NS servers popular at times then just die within minutes after a round ends. Long round are what make NS a great game.
Er-hem, You're all idiots <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->...
Actually, I think res for any kill is a necessity.
I agree, however, that it is a bit unbalanced, as Marines can kill from far away with a gun, but aliens have to be right next to a marine, so I believe that marines should get less res for killing an alien than an alien killing a marine. It would also be interesting to see res given according to class (ex, marine killing a marine = more res than marine killing a skulk).
I win. We should all do what I say, because I'm the coolest and best-looking being ever to stumble across the internet <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
you guys keep insisting on your 1.04 views... RfK isn't a problem at all, atmosphere and gameplay wise. Actually, RfK was part of the game before the release, but it was changed back then. Now it works perfectly. What's the problem anyway? You're afraid that you have to change your skulk gameplay? Well, you have to change lerk, gorge, fade and onos gameplay, so why not the skulk one as well? 2.0 plays comletely differently and RfK is a very nice aspect of it. Prepare to <i>think</i> before you throw yourself into death. Just like marines do.
You dont have to think at all, man! What he means is you must hear those voices the Hive sends you... Can you hear them? Do you feel the aggressive Instinct of the Khaara Race?
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> how bout this....when some one dies the body stays there of like 1minet or 2. the gorgr coud go and hela spry the bodys of merins and get like 10 or 8 or 6 res from it . the merins coud go and weld the body...it coud be a right clike funkshon of the welber. Like the animashon cud be a lil nedal comes out of the welder. The merins get ( 2 <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->) (4 <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->) (3 <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->) (5 <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->) (8 <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->) res
Also for whoever said that, not even, Flayra/PT/Vets don't know how it'll be once it hits pubs ? uhh.. What do you think we do ? just Scrim and have matches only ? We do it on both, we have our scrims, to test out stuff, and also pubs. So we know how it works in a pub.
Since CS has RfK as well you'd think it would be an awesome team game then. Obviously a RfK system inspires teamwork and everyone that plays CS is careful to stick together etc. This is of course enhanced by the fact that *team* wins give the most resourc... I mean money.
Inspired by this I have now come to realise that Marines should be able to buy the weapons of their choice by using the armory and their kill score should be shown as well, this should inspire even more CS-like teamwork. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
To be honest my main gripe is the message this RfK sends, I just hope it's a server variable. If it's the same for both teams then the game shouldn't be unbalanced by turning it off.
Comments
YEHAAAAAA JUHUUUUUUUUU YYYYYEHAAAAAAAAA YEAH YEAH JUHU YEHAAAAAAA
MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAA YUUUUUUHHHHUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
Ah, forgive me, nevermind, just a little happy
We got a closed case closed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh and thx Andrew, you made my day <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
No kill scores, no announcers, no killing sprees!
Rambo incentives: BAD!
Teamplay incentives: GOOD!
No, because you can get at most 3 res for a kill.
If the marines turtle in their base, they will loose badly. Smart alien teams will just let them stay there and not attack into the base.
Khaara will quickly have every RT and three hives, and then it's game over.
(Imagines 6 3-hive upgraded Onos attacking one base. shudder)
If you just sit in your base the aliens will get 3 hives and own you.
This also requires the aliens to be so stupid to keep rushing the marines, and not wait til they get higher lvl evolutions.
No kill scores, no announcers, no killing sprees!
Rambo incentives: BAD!
Teamplay incentives: GOOD! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
then i dunno, why do we have res for kills then? i figured that was the bad one, the unreal idea doesnt give u anything except confidence <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
well the only problem is that the playtesters are all of high skill right? (veterans were picked from the top clans)
what happens when you mix high skill and noobs together? you guys are basicly playtesting a clan war
i am just worryed about public servers where people are not of the same skill.
PS no offence was ment to anyone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to agree with Catpoker. I *do* trust Flayra, and the Playtesters and Veterans. I believe them when they say "it works". However, as Catpoker mentioned, I feel there may be a growing disparity between the PT/Vet group and the general playing public.
Originally, the Playtesters were used to test things and make sure it had a good flow, among other things. There was concern that this would lead to balanced public games, but perhaps badly balanced clan games, and rightly so. Clan wars are, with few exceptions, highly skilled and brutal affairs, much different than from a public game. Because of this, the Veterans were brought in, so that Clan version of the Playtesters could help give feedback from the clan side of things.
This has worked fairly well, it would seem. However, the problem now (potentially) lies with the playtesters, in the sense that they have been playing long enough that they may have gotten too good. What I mean by this is that given enough playing time, your skill is bound to get high, if it wasn't already. The playtesters, while perhaps not as skilled on average as the Veterans, may still be be substantially more skilled than the average public player, and herein lies the problem:
If this is the case, then the high-skill/experience players have a representation in the Veterans, and the medium-high skill/experience players have a representation in the Playtesters, but the average to below average skill/experience players will not be represented at all. (By the way, the above paragraph was a generalization. I wasn't trying to say that there are no highly-skilled PTs and no less than amazing Vets.)
What happens is that features that play well and "work" with the Vets and PTs may not necessarily work as well with the rest of the public. The real danger would be if those features didn't simply work less well, but almost didn't work at all.
I don't know if the above is true, or how often new Playtesters are brought in, which would help to alleviate the problem (Assuming that they were somewhat newer players), but it is a theory of something that could go, or be going, wrong. We all know that the average public game is radically different from a clan game, and even from a public game with a lot of experienced and skilled people in it on both sides. I just worry that NS 2.0 will be released to the public and experience real problems, simply from the disparity.
Again, I trust the PTs, Vets, and most of all Flayra, and grant that NS 2.0 having many problems upon its release seems unlikely, even to me. The resources for kills for Marines feature just got me thinking about it, and the above scenario could affect other features as well, although I am quite happy with the sound of almost all of NS 2.0. This is just a possibility I wanted to raise for consideration.
Thanks for reading all of this, and to those who didn't, you may not have missed much... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Twilight
well the only problem is that the playtesters are all of high skill right? (veterans were picked from the top clans)
what happens when you mix high skill and noobs together? you guys are basicly playtesting a clan war
i am just worryed about public servers where people are not of the same skill.
PS no offence was ment to anyone <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tend to agree with Catpoker. I *do* trust Flayra, and the Playtesters and Veterans. I believe them when they say "it works". However, as Catpoker mentioned, I feel there may be a growing disparity between the PT/Vet group and the general playing public.
Originally, the Playtesters were used to test things and make sure it had a good flow, among other things. There was concern that this would lead to balanced public games, but perhaps badly balanced clan games, and rightly so. Clan wars are, with few exceptions, highly skilled and brutal affairs, much different than from a public game. Because of this, the Veterans were brought in, so that Clan version of the Playtesters could help give feedback from the clan side of things.
This has worked fairly well, it would seem. However, the problem now (potentially) lies with the playtesters, in the sense that they have been playing long enough that they may have gotten too good. What I mean by this is that given enough playing time, your skill is bound to get high, if it wasn't already. The playtesters, while perhaps not as skilled on average as the Veterans, may still be be substantially more skilled than the average public player, and herein lies the problem:
If this is the case, then the high-skill/experience players have a representation in the Veterans, and the medium-high skill/experience players have a representation in the Playtesters, but the average to below average skill/experience players will not be represented at all. (By the way, the above paragraph was a generalization. I wasn't trying to say that there are no highly-skilled PTs and no less than amazing Vets.)
What happens is that features that play well and "work" with the Vets and PTs may not necessarily work as well with the rest of the public. The real danger would be if those features didn't simply work less well, but almost didn't work at all.
I don't know if the above is true, or how often new Playtesters are brought in, which would help to alleviate the problem (Assuming that they were somewhat newer players), but it is a theory of something that could go, or be going, wrong. We all know that the average public game is radically different from a clan game, and even from a public game with a lot of experience and skilled people in it on both sides. I just worry that NS 2.0 will be released to the public and experience real problems, simply from the disparity.
Again, I trust the PTs, Vets, and most of all Flayra, and grant that NS 2.0 having many problems upon its release seems unlikely, even to me. The resources for kills for Marines feature just got me thinking about it, and the above scenario could affect other features as well, although I am quite happy with the sound of almost all of NS 2.0. This is just a possibility I wanted to raise for consideration.
Thanks for reading all of this, and to those who didn't, you may not have missed much... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Twilight <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
PTs have a quite a large range of skill
Then that would help soothe some of my fears, and that's good to know. In the long run, even if things don't work well, I have confidence in Flayra's ability to patch things so that they *do* work well, as he has so often done before.
Twilight
No i'm not comparing cs to ns. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
cs???a realism mod?? hahahahaahaa!!!!! ur funny <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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And that's the reason why I don't post about v2.0 anymore.
Nobody, and I mean <b>NOBODY</b> (Including Flay, PTs or Vets) will know just exactly how RfKs will go down when it hits pubs. Playtesting will never truly replicate the randomness of skills and teamwork of pub play.
I still get the feeling that alien-only res for kills would be better for the atmosphere, and still promote teamplay. Marines would have to weigh the risk of getting killed and thus feeding the aliens res against the need to pressure the aliens to prevent them from growing and expanding too much. The marines would still have to move in groups to avoid getting killed easily, while the aliens could suicide without much worry, although working together and actually killing the marines would help them more. I'm pretty sure that originally it was said that alien ramboing was intended to be encouraged.
I think it all depends on what the marines are supposed to be doing... Are they fighting to survive, or are they hunting the aliens? I suppose I, personally, have always seen it as a fight for survival, and so the marines should pretty much avoid conflict unless it was necessary to keep the aliens weak. If it's supposed to be more a "hunt the aliens" kind of thing, then I suppose marines seeking out conflict would make sense, thus res-for-kills for them makes sense, not literally, but as an incentive.
I'd also like to say that I hate the fact that any sort of discussion, speculation, even questions, about 2.0 by "members", IE not vets/PTs, is immediately jumped on and made out to be "complaining" and "whining" by certain people. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
1 of the reasons Flayra put marines res for kills back in is because aliens could just throw themselves at the marines maybe get a kill 1-3res and marines get nothing, there was basically no penalty.
Aliens throwing themselves at marines constantly sounds like exactly what NS needs, atmosphere-wise. Make the marines feel they're under attack constantly, and make them afraid to die. I know I'd be afraid of those aliens, marine training or not. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I remember seeing a post in the suggestion forum to have the alien respawn time removed, letting aliens respawn instantly. Almost everyone agreed that it'd be great for the atmosphere, hordes of skulks and all that. Obviously, it wouldn't work with 1.0 or 2.0, but the responses it got do show that most people think suicidal aliens "make sense".
One of the things that makes NS so different from other mods is that the atmosphere is nothing like CS or TFC.
This argument was already said before (not by me) but it's a good enough argument to say again.
And for the record, I too like exceptionaly long games. A few times I've played a match that lasted just over 2 hours. It's much harder to turn away from the game in the middle of the round than it is after a round has ended. Long rounds are what make NS servers popular at times then just die within minutes after a round ends. Long round are what make NS a great game.
Actually, I think res for any kill is a necessity.
I agree, however, that it is a bit unbalanced, as Marines can kill from far away with a gun, but aliens have to be right next to a marine, so I believe that marines should get less res for killing an alien than an alien killing a marine. It would also be interesting to see res given according to class (ex, marine killing a marine = more res than marine killing a skulk).
I win. We should all do what I say, because I'm the coolest and best-looking being ever to stumble across the internet <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
What he means is you must hear those voices the Hive sends you...
Can you hear them?
Do you feel the aggressive Instinct of the Khaara Race?
kiiiiilllllllllll............ KILL.............kiiiiiiiiiiiiill..............kkkkkkkiiiiiilllllllll................kiill.........KIILL
KILL KILL KILL KIIIIIIIIILLLLLLL
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<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
OMG HES COOL
no point for this ...
Inspired by this I have now come to realise that Marines should be able to buy the weapons of their choice by using the armory and their kill score should be shown as well, this should inspire even more CS-like teamwork.
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To be honest my main gripe is the message this RfK sends, I just hope it's a server variable. If it's the same for both teams then the game shouldn't be unbalanced by turning it off.