Medpack Delay
Aaron
vroom vroom der party startah Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7020Members
vroom vroom der party startah Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7020Members
I see the playtesters are having a discussion on the phenomenon of medpack-carpeting - that is, spamming medpacks. I would like to side with the proposal to introduce a small delay so that mass-spamming medpacks is not as effective. Some have mentioned that the COST of medpack spamming is an adequate counter-measure for the effectiveness. I would argue against that for this reason: medpack spamming replaces strategy directly with resources. The cost of medpacks is CONSTANT while their utility may vary. Imagine a group of marines just about to accomplish a large goal like taking down a hive or setting up a seige or killing a gorge or two or resource towers in early game...a relatively small price in medpacks is paid for a relatively HUGE strategic payoff, at which point we have converted the entire strategy side of the equation over to resources. Because of this I support the proposal to add a short delay, like 1 second, so that mass spamming cannot be overwhelmingly powerful in crucial situations and thereby completely removing the strategic aspect.
Comments
When I say delay what I mean is a marine should only be able to pick up one medpack a second, the comm may spam them as much as he likes.
On the other hand I'm all for changing healthspay to not hurting marines any more, it should only heal. Makes Gorge rushing more tricky and the Gorge a worse fighter and that's how it should be in my opinion.
unless healspray heals marines and aliens can pick up medpacks <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But can you spam DC's from the sky anywhere on the map without a gorge being there ? Nope.
And if there is a gorge there and the rine is being spammed and does not die he then has effectively cost the aliens alot more in res and team members then its cost the rines for the spamming, plus he gets res for the kills going back to the rines so paying for some of the medpacks dropped. :-)
It <b>does not heal the marine</b>, just disappear of the playing field. It takes much more skill to accurately drop a med pack on the marine then for a comm to bind a key and med carpet.
only other option i can think of is make it so meds can only be dropped in an area around marine structures or make meds an upgrade option.
so...one time this guy told me there was a space bar
and i used it and i was like w0000t
try it it does wonders
<i>edit: 7yp0</i>
Last time I checked, they do.
It <b>does not heal the marine</b>, just disappear of the playing field. It takes much more skill to accurately drop a med pack on the marine then for a comm to bind a key and med carpet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea even more, maybe even make medpacks heal aliens, too, but at least make them disappear when an alien touches it or maybe make all stuff laying around on the floor like medpack, ammo, weapons destroyable.
Med Spam costs resources, that's the 'nerf'. If the Marines can afford to waste a hundred res just on Med Packs, spam isn't your biggest problem.
whatever, but i say add some delay to make it reasonable... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
and its not reasonable if he can spam pile of medpacks any where in the map in seconds? is it? hello? anyone there? .... .... ....
maybe there should be some item "medpack" that you give to someone and he can heal others with it? something similar as welding goes for repairing armor... so that there would be some "supportive" players with welders/medpacks healing / repairing others...
yep, ive been playing Enemy Territory a little <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (medic! medic!)
just an idea *flame on* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
cheers
Mystiqq
whatever, but i say add some delay to make it reasonable... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
and its not reasonable if he can spam pile of medpacks any where in the map in seconds? is it? hello? anyone there? .... .... ....
maybe there should be some item "medpack" that you give to someone and he can heal others with it? something similar as welding goes for repairing armor... so that there would be some "supportive" players with welders/medpacks healing / repairing others...
yep, ive been playing Enemy Territory a little <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (medic! medic!)
just an idea *flame on* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
cheers
Mystiqq <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He can spam armories, CC's and even Proto Labs on any place on the map but the medpacks bother you?
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=SF&f=5' target='_blank'>Suggestions & Ideas Forum</a>
Comparing Med pack spam to DCs is assinine. The DCs are not 1.0 DCs, they are fixed and can only heal 10 points every second up to 3 taregets at once. 2 Med packs heal a marine fully. When the commander drops 40 Med packs on the floor in less than 10 seconds, the chances of any thing being able to kill that marine is minimal (minus a Onos with Charge). Its comparable to walk to regain life; you just keep shooting and killing, and all you need to do to stay alive is to walk back and forth while the commander showers you with life.
Not being able to bind a key to Med packs would be too annoying so The 1 second delay inbetween dropping a med pack and being able to drop another one is a good idea.
Med pack spam, has helped a lone marine take down a OC wall, that shouldn't happen, if the marine can keep shooting and keep killing and never be afrade of dying as long as the comm keeps dropping him stuff, that would be like the more DCs you have the more regen gives you life.
Something needs to be done about Med pack Spam! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once upon a time Flayra also said there would never be marine blood.. and behold... He changed his mind..
It's his game but the fact that this forum exists means our opnions count for something, so if enough players feel this sort of change would benefit the game and the coding required wouldn't be too great.. then Flayra can decide to try it or not..
But the point is, these forums are here for this purpose.. If you don't want to contribute, then don't...
Comparing Med pack spam to DCs is assinine. The DCs are not 1.0 DCs, they are fixed and can only heal 10 points every second up to 3 taregets at once. 2 Med packs heal a marine fully. When the commander drops 40 Med packs on the floor in less than 10 seconds, the chances of any thing being able to kill that marine is minimal (minus a Onos with Charge). Its comparable to walk to regain life; you just keep shooting and killing, and all you need to do to stay alive is to walk back and forth while the commander showers you with life.
Not being able to bind a key to Med packs would be too annoying so The 1 second delay inbetween dropping a med pack and being able to drop another one is a good idea.
Med pack spam, has helped a lone marine take down a OC wall, that shouldn't happen, if the marine can keep shooting and keep killing and never be afrade of dying as long as the comm keeps dropping him stuff, that would be like the more DCs you have the more regen gives you life.
Something needs to be done about Med pack Spam! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to clarify, the proposal I was supporting, the delay is NOT delaying the commander from dropping the medpacks, but only a delay between when a marine can USE a medpack. So a comm can still drop the medpacks instantly. If you drop 10 medpacks, 10 marines will be able to use one each instantly, but a single marine would have to wait 1 second (or whatever amount of time, maybe .5 seconds) between them. As you can see the proposed change is very slight and only affects the spamminess.
Resources are the "nerf": Yeah right, Im more then happy to blow 20 or even 60 res to keep marines up while there killing a hive. Reallly I have no problem blowing through 100 res to kill a 80 res hive IF IT WINS THE GAME.
Be sides marines get res quickly and a good com can bank it while arming marines for a hive rush.
Aiming it is a skill, If you have it you deserve it: Once agin yeah right. Any kid with a decent PC can spam HP on your head consitently. My 8 year nephew can keep a marine up aginst a fade. I can put 3 outa 4 Health packs on a marine flying and jinking above a hive no prob.
Health spam Balences D-towers. They do? what are you smoking? I havent scene a Dt that can heal 100 damage per second anywhere on the map where its needed.
Marines need it becuase......: Marine need it becuase there are allota marine who either cant play or have grow lazy. I dont beleive for a second that marines would not be able to compete with the aliens if health spam was toned down or eliminated (read: one health every 10 seconds or so)
Its fine how it is, the comm still has to locate the marine in need of a med pack, and try to drop it on him, if marines could carry med packs then you can start moaning. How would you like if DCs had a 1 second delay <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked, they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think hes saying if DCs had a one second delay in dropping them. But if you are, you still have to build the DCs dummy.
Someone already posted this. But its a good idea. If you had a number of medpacks in the upper-right hand corner of the screen, it was a counter, ok? That counter would start at maybe six, and when you drop a medpack it goes to five. So each time you drop a medpack it goes down. But that counter slow increases back to six all the time. So you could still treat marines quickly that need a medpack, but you couldnt spam them. I'm in favor of this...
I don't think that your solution effects "<i>Spammyness</i>" at all, he can still spamm the res away and keep 3 men alive long enough to take down a hive. If he couldn't give the floor a nice coat of blue, gray, white and red it would be the same effect but solving the problem on a bigger scale.
The Problem isn't that the marine can keep picking it up, its that the commander can keep giving it to him.
If the commander was (hate to use this word) "Nerfed" when it comes to dropping meds, the spam would stop. He would still be able to spamm his brains out and a 1 second dodge is all it would take to keep that marine alive long enough to get more life, or reload. A team of Marines would be invincable still. If the Meds were only able to be dropped so many at a time 1 every second, then the spam wounldn't be able to happen.
Your idea is, Only 1 or 2 marines out of the group would get health at a time, the others would need to wait a second to get more, then the cycle repeats, while its a very good idea, it wouldn't solve the problem, my Idea would.
(but thanks for giving me that Idea with your Idea) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't think that your solution effects "<i>Spammyness</i>" at all, he can still spamm the res away and keep 3 men alive long enough to take down a hive. If he couldn't give the floor a nice coat of blue, gray, white and red it would be the same effect but solving the problem on a bigger scale.
The Problem isn't that the marine can keep picking it up, its that the commander can keep giving it to him.
If the commander was (hate to use this word) "Nerfed" when it comes to dropping meds, the spam would stop. He would still be able to spamm his brains out and a 1 second dodge is all it would take to keep that marine alive long enough to get more life, or reload. A team of Marines would be invincable still. If the Meds were only able to be dropped so many at a time 1 every second, then the spam wounldn't be able to happen.
Your idea is, Only 1 or 2 marines out of the group would get health at a time, the others would need to wait a second to get more, then the cycle repeats, while its a very good idea, it wouldn't solve the problem, my Idea would.
(but thanks for giving me that Idea with your Idea) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think putting a cap on the comm is a bit more drastic, and would require the com to be present when giving out each pack, which, for instance, would keep him from being able to give out packs to marines on the other side of the map. I think people will be much less accepting of this.
The proposal I am supporting, is not mine, it is grepdashv's, see here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=37683' target='_blank'>Medpack Effectiveness</a>, is just to make a delay in which individual marines can pick up medpacks. This "delay" allows a reasonable time for the enemy to get their attacks in instead of just going up against invincible marines, but still allows the com to drop many packs and then go off and do something else.
yeh and add a sniper,spy and scout class too!!
not..
yeh and add a sniper,spy and scout class too!!
not..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And give the medic conc grenades...
and the soldier marine a rocket launcher !!!
W00T!!!!
lol
/me off to play some TFC until i get home and play NS...