Linux natural selection server
Imperial_Syndicate
Join Date: 2002-06-13 Member: 762Members
Join Date: 2002-06-13 Member: 762Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Please, anything is appreciated...</div>First, I apologize for posting yet another thread about the Linux version of NS server. However, I felt that it needed to be done. Two reasons:
1. Some one posted something about this in general discussion and it should be here.
2. There is STILL no word from the officials who can give accurate word (Flayra & Co.) about Linux server progress.
Therefore, I ask that we PLEASE get some word (yes or no, doesn't matter) on the progress of the Linux server version of NS. I have a Linux box ready to go for an NS server, and am eager to have it running. I thought all I was waiting for was for NS to be released, but there seems to be some confusion on whether there will be a Linux server for the release AT ALL, which gets me greatly concerned. So, please, if you have time, anyone that knows something, please say it. I'm just looking for a little bit of information here. Thank you.
1. Some one posted something about this in general discussion and it should be here.
2. There is STILL no word from the officials who can give accurate word (Flayra & Co.) about Linux server progress.
Therefore, I ask that we PLEASE get some word (yes or no, doesn't matter) on the progress of the Linux server version of NS. I have a Linux box ready to go for an NS server, and am eager to have it running. I thought all I was waiting for was for NS to be released, but there seems to be some confusion on whether there will be a Linux server for the release AT ALL, which gets me greatly concerned. So, please, if you have time, anyone that knows something, please say it. I'm just looking for a little bit of information here. Thank you.
Comments
<!--EDIT|Fam|July 04 2002,09:42-->
If you think we would ignore half of the servers running HLDS, you must think we are crazy or stupid. We are neither. There will be Linux server support. It will be released some short time after the Win32 binaries. It is <b>official</b>.
That is all.
/me goes off to calm down
<!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|July 04 2002,00:44-->
I don't imagine it would take very long to get this done. Long ago, I got the linux server code working fine pretty quickly, so I don't expect it will be a huge amount of work.
We know how crucial this is, so it's not like you're going to have to wait months for this. :)
And on a side note:
Well, we took a little poll in IRC today, and the decision was about 97% for waiting on the release until linux servers are ready and working. (about 19/20 said so). About 75% of all HL servers are linux. If the mod is released, you get one shot with a lot of people. They play it once, and make a choice. If they go to setup a server and they can't, I am sure you would lose a good chunk of players/servers that you could have. Personally, I truly believe it would be suicide to not release without a working linux server...
<!--EDIT|Comprox|July 08 2002,15:26-->
Right now, I can see (with no filters, no ping restrictions, etc.):
23897 Half-Life servers of any variety
Of these, there are 11015 Linux-based HL servers.
This means that <b>54%</b> of all servers are running a <b>Windows</b> variation. A majority. Reason enough to release the Win32 binaries without delay, and follow them up a week or two later (as the highest priority other than bug fixes) with the Linux version.
Please return to your regularly scheduled forum bumming.
<!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|July 08 2002,18:39-->
/me loads up CS and sorts by ping
/me loads up TFC and sorts by ping
/me sees a pattern!
Good ping servers are usually linux ones (dedicated). Yes, a lot of people run a server off their cable modem off windows. Most of the hosting places/dedicated servers do use linux though. (thankfully mine uses NT).
But, if you guys are so heart set on waiting on the linux. Well, 50% of your servers will be gone, when you are trying to tailor to 100% of your fans.
I think you guys are going nuts. You could have this game in a few weeks, but you want to wait months?
*I am talking from me hosting DTT matches on the old NSTR2* I could not host more than 6 peeps without it lagging, and most people cant hold more than 8. I strongly agree with what PB said. Sure, there might be more windows based servers, but the low pinged, high quality servers are linux. As the old saying goes, quality not quantity. Take the game Americas Army for example. Amazing game -- horrible servers/server problems. Now picture you not being able to find a decent server, that is up 24/7 with a low ping for ns. It would suck and might drive players away. I, personally, dont mind waiting -- its half the fun.
Secondly. Did CS release with a Linux server? Did TFC? Did DOD? Are any of those mods doomed? Does anyone actually think that server ops decided to run a server for any of these games at their first release, saw they couldn't then gave up for good?
*I am talking from me hosting DTT matches on the old NSTR2* I could not host more than 6 peeps without it lagging, and most people cant hold more than 8. I strongly agree with what PB said. Sure, there might be more windows based servers, but the low pinged, high quality servers are linux. As the old saying goes, quality not quantity. Take the game Americas Army for example. Amazing game -- horrible servers/server problems. Now picture you not being able to find a decent server, that is up 24/7 with a low ping for ns. It would suck and might drive players away. I, personally, dont mind waiting -- its half the fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forgive me for saying, but you really aren't speaking facts, here. The NSTR should not be used as any benchmark for performance - it was specifically designed to suck on network play, in order to discourage that kind of behavior.
As far as anything you said about Linux, feel free to back it with some fact, as opposed to opinion. There are quantitatively about the same number of Linux as Windows servers (my point was to dispell this retarded myth about there being zillions of Linux servers and hardly any Windows). So that quantity statement means nothing.
As for your statement about low ping, high quality servers always being linux: prove it. I bet most players (most being 99.999%) can't even tell me which OS they are connecting to. I also bet that there are about an even per capita number of well run and low ping Windows servers. Statistically, as there is a tiny percentage more servers, it's likely there are more Win32 servers running at low ping, as that is mostly dependent on your hops. More servers = more servers to choose from = likely to get fewer hops and lower pings.
As an aside, the America's Army analogy has nothing to do with us. They have a handful of servers, and a million people trying to connect to them. And it's a different game. And they could very well be Linux. And a million other non-NS factors. It only weakens your argument.
I'm sure you don't mind waiting - we do. So when it releases, don't play. Wait for the linux server, then download NS, then play.
Update: I didn't mean to be a jerk here. But this whole rumour based conspiracy theory about Windows servers are bad and Linux servers magically good, and there are secret legions of Linux servers out there, and all the rest - pure unsubstantiated internet rumour ########. Please folks - check your facts before you bring all this nonsense to the forums. It really gets me going, as a professional in the field and as someone who does not automatically believe something because I saw it on TV or read about it at some website.
<!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|July 09 2002,00:45-->
Personally I would rather have NS out weeks sooner and have the Linux server out later. To be honest, running a server is not my top priority. <b>My top priority is playing NS, and I'm gonna do it whether I have a server or not.</b> Period.
Also, Flayra also said that it souldn't take very long, and I believe him. He's not stupid, and he knows what he has to do, and how to get it done. I doubt that waiting for the Linux server would take a month, and I don't think that releaseing NS before Linux server would hurt it as much as you think.
As for some of you guys' facts, let's not get this blown out of proportion. I am a passionate Linux advocate, but saying that all Linux servers are better than Win32s is just not true. There are all kinds of people running servers out there. I've played in some great Win32 servers; heck they were better than mine.
Also, "ping" (or latency) is influenced mostly by the server's WAN connection; not the OS. Yes, the statement about Linux being generally more stable than Win32 is true. However, <b>that is not saying that the server program itself is stable!</b> My Linux server <b>software</b> for TFC had tons of crash issues awhile back before VALVe fixed them. But, my server computer never crashed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this:
I think some people are making this a bigger deal than it has to be, and I don't think begging Flayra for the Linux server at release is going to do any good, because it seems as if he's already made up his mind. I agree with MonsE.
Thanks for everyone's input!
go flay go flay <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Now stop posting and get back to work finishing the game. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
good linux server? why not? i mean, i know some people prefer the linux over win32 but i doubt all the people who dont want to host games could care less, i think i speak for all the people when say this: just release the game asap, linux can wait... (yes i did read flayra's post about them both being released together) but, releasing them at the same time would delay it right? would it lose any popularity that people have to wait a week to host their linux servers? NOOOOO... does anyone listen? no... does anyone care that they wont get the mod for a few more weeks cause linux and win32 will be released at the same time? yes... i, for one couldnt care less if linux was released at the same time, considering it didnt delay the release any, if it did, then i would want it win32 w/o linux support, then add linux later
basicall im saying is: if releasing linux and win32 at the same time delays it, dont do it... i wanna play asap!!! meaning: NOW!!!
*edit* yeah, some linux servers are better, some win32 servers are better, didnt read all of grendel's post, so i guess if you release win32 w/o linux, it will be a delay for 1 more server? but thats just about 50% of the servers that your not getting for A WEEK?!?!?! CANT YOU PEOPLE WAIT!!!!! my god, i feel like im the only 1 who cares about playing this soon...
btw: Flayra sounds like a girl name...
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*edit*
While I am a zealotous ( hehe.. I've invented a word! ) Linux advocate, I agree with MonSE about the idiocy of unfounded statements about server numbers.
Truth be told, I do *believe* that there are more dedicated broadband linux servers than win32, that's a belief based on my observations not on hard cold fact.
However, the arguement about 'not releasing Linux will lose 1/2 the world' is pointless.
The issue is not so much which platform to support, but much more about which features are common to both platforms.
For this reason, I believe that Flayra is taking the proper road by delaying to get both server ports working.
The reason for this is that it is important to know that something fundamental in the code is available and operates in the same fashion on both platforms. I'm thinking of some of the select() issues that the DoD team had with 1.2 (was it?) when it turned out that there were differences in implementation (not api) on the different platforms.
It's important, nay, vital, to know that the server will be consistent on both platforms (whatever about performant... that's another issue entirely).
So basically I would love to have NS asap, but I think it's a good idea to wait to make sure everything is 100% ready <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
joev.
The real advantages that Linux has over NT has nothing to do with what sort of pings you will get on your server, rather business scalability, security, memory management, hacking, optimization, cost, usability, implementation ease, and stability. Between Linux and NT/w2k most of these aspects are just exist as differences and are not really better one way or another.
The fact is, if you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, have a good tech background, and understand what it takes to setup a good server.....for Half-Life game servers a w2k server can be just as good as a Linux server.
Now, I'm talking PINGS here, that's it <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
My theory as to why Linux is thought to be better than win32 is this: It's a lot easier for avg. Joe who doesn't know what he's doing to run a server on win32 than on Linux, and that on average if someone is knowledgeable enough to install Linux and get it running to a state where you can run a server you have a bit more knowledge than avg. Joe and consider more factors to improve server performance. So, people have run-in's with avg. joe servers on win32 servers a lot more than on Linux.
Just a theory =p
I’ve run a stable w2k server for Operation Flashpoint where users get between 15-50 pings with broadband depending on their location for about 3 months now. I’ve also run stable Linux servers.
My advice to anyone is to go with the OS you know more about.