To Devs: Why Hl?
djsic2
Join Date: 2003-02-02 Member: 12988Members
Join Date: 2003-02-02 Member: 12988Members
Hey there guys... great game you got here. Just wondering why you all chose the Half-Life engine to create this mod? At the time, it seems that could have used Q3, Unreal, UT. Although I'm an avid NS to HL2 fanboy, I am in no way promoting it in this post...
::Flame Shield up::
thanks Devs.. can't wait for 1.1
::Flame Shield up::
thanks Devs.. can't wait for 1.1
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Comments
2) Easy modding, good modding support etc.
3) low computer requirement
Not 100% sure on #3 there(if that was a reason) but anyway, there ya go.
P.S. nice sig.
But of course, why develop a mod for a game that anyone hardly plays.. ?
HL has a perfect player base for mod making, and its 56k friendly..
(EDIT) And of course the NS team did a great job to utilize the features of the HL engine to the fullest...
Wow they really went far make NS as cool as it is today <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The above formula might already be true for Counterstrike alone.
Thusly, perhaps the techical aspects of an engine can outweigh the graphical ones?
Thusly, perhaps the techical aspects of an engine can outweigh the graphical ones? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think hl is the most modable engine out there. That award goes easily to the quake3 engine, just think of MOHAA, RtCW, Soldier of Fortune 2, Noone Lives Forever 2, Jedi Knight 2. That is all q3. And then take the really great variety of free q3 mods like Urban Terror, Quake 3 Fortress, CPMA etc, whilst on the HL side you have X CS clones with hitscan based weapons, some exceptions like TFC (I think that the HL engine is really bad at handling such mods), and a few special mods like NS, still having the CS touch.
Quake3 is still the modder's engine. But if you want to make a mod that loads of people play then you'll go with HL, as numbers speak for themselves.
Of course, more players => more mods => more developers => more support
That all can be tracked back to the fact that every twerp has hl.
(stats taken from www.csports.net) unique player ids in the last 31 days:
1 Half Life 9,996,755
2 Medal Of Honor 1,269,043
3 Battlefield 1942 864,398
4 Quake III Arena 839,355
5 Unreal Tournament 632,147
6 Unreal Tournament 2003 552,169 (hehe, gotta love that, UT still beats out UT2k3)
7 Wolfenstein Enemy Territory 474,520
8 Soldier Of Fortune II 409,343
9 Return to Castle Wolfenstein 400,538
10 Jedi Knight II 274,585
Thats the Top 10, so yah <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And as for why HL is mor modable: B/C Valve Does a VERY good job of supporting them, flat out.
Oh and as for 'every thing is a CS clone':
Day of Defeat, Team Fortress Classic, Natural Selection, FireArms, Digital Paintball, Vampire Slayer, Earth Special Forces, The Specialists, Sven Co-op
And that is just going down the list till #12 of the most players, none of those are CS clones (I skiped HLDM and HLTP b/c they are the originals so waht ever <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I have to admit that I do not know all hl mods out there, but the only one I know of that really awards movement/trickjumps is TFC. Or is there any other mod out there where people use grenades to jump across maps, or shoot themself through the air with rocket jumps? I don't think so.
Thusly, perhaps the techical aspects of an engine can outweigh the graphical ones? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think hl is the most modable engine out there. That award goes easily to the quake3 engine, just think of MOHAA, RtCW, Soldier of Fortune 2, Noone Lives Forever 2, Jedi Knight 2. That is all q3. And then take the really great variety of free q3 mods like Urban Terror, Quake 3 Fortress, CPMA etc, whilst on the HL side you have X CS clones with hitscan based weapons, some exceptions like TFC (I think that the HL engine is really bad at handling such mods), and a few special mods like NS, still having the CS touch.
Quake3 is still the modder's engine. But if you want to make a mod that loads of people play then you'll go with HL, as numbers speak for themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to clarify, most of what you described are not modded games: they are purchased copies of the engine with full access to source. iD and John Carmack games are rather legendary for being difficult to mod, with poor support, missing tools, disorganized messy code, and just generally unfriendly interfaces. Getting access to the engine is entirely different than working within the confines of an SDK, and there the VALVe guys are completely unparalleled.
eggmac, when the cakes are talking the crumbs have to be quiet <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am currently working on a mod for UT2003, and there is stuff that an engine can handle well and other stuff it can't. I found that out while trying to add certain moves like bunnyhop or trickjumps using ramps. While the engine can mostly handle it pretty well it comes down to netcode/prediction limitations. I have actually no idea how hl modding is like, but looking at the hl mods out there it seems that the hl engine suits games with a fixed limited set of movement options with hitscan weapons.
Sure they are licensed games you cannot download for free. And yes they are no 'mods', but still I'd describe making a game like JK2 out of the basic Q3 as "modding", as it's entirely the same just going deeper into the source.
I did not say q3 modding was easier than hl modding. My point was that the q3 engine is way more versatile than the hl engine (which is actually a modded q2 engine).
I would hardly call restrictions on movement, or concentrating more on aim than on movement a CS clone. That really is an extreme overgeneralisation. You might as well say that all mod's with weapons are CS clones. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure they are licensed games you cannot download for free. And yes they are no 'mods', but still I'd describe making a game like JK2 out of the basic Q3 as "modding", as it's entirely the same just going deeper into the source.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It really isn't the same. They aren't "just going deeper into the source", they have full access to it, and can change whatever they want, and also tend to use thier own tools, or at least they usually don't rely on the same SDK as the modder's, as they aren't as limited.
There's also the matter of having some sort of funding behind the game, which generally enhances the development process a bit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... the hl engine (which is actually a modded q2 engine).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's actually a heavily modified Quake I engine.
PS NOLF2 uses the jupiter engine (advanced Lithtech engine). s:p
I think theres a major difference between creating commercial game using an engine and converting an existing game into a "mod." Especially these games you listed. They are all highly anticpated games from major companies with enormous amounts of funding and a huge dev base.
Also, NOLF2 was LithTech I believe.
And honestly, would all of us be playing NS if it was a Q3 mod? I know I wouldn't.
[edit]damn sp errors
Sorry for being not accurate, but HL is actually a mix of q1 and q2 (i think the gfx/renders are q2)
@Virus.com
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And honestly, would all of us be playing NS if it was a Q3 mod? I know I wouldn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am really interested why you wouldn't?
Are you getting bad fps? Are you using 56k? You played a bit of q3a and got totally destroyed by veteran players? (one of the bad things about q3, there's only really good players so new guys get frustrated) Or did you just not like the 'feel' of q3?
i bet that HL modding is a way more easier than anything out there, it has to be, just the amount of mods out there for HL should ring a bell <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> .
cheers
Mystiqq
Are you getting bad fps? Are you using 56k? You played a bit of q3a and got totally destroyed by veteran players? (one of the bad things about q3, there's only really good players so new guys get frustrated) Or did you just not like the 'feel' of q3? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More than likely because HL is a game almost every gamer on the planet has.
Its computer requirements, even at release time 4.5 years ago were not massive.
q3a has a much higher machine requirement and a much lower player base.
To be honest with you, people can rave about engine X (noone mentions torque! 100 bucks for Tribes 2 engine core!) all you want but in my experience (and that's extensive) I have not seen a single mod for Q3A, UT/2K3 etc etc that does not 'feel' like the original game re-skinned. And almost all of the 'released' games come into the same category.
HL has at least a dozen mods that I'm aware of that are completely unique in gameplay feel from the original engine (and any of the other mods using that engine).
Lets look at the list you had...
MOHAA - Q3 with WW2 skins.
RtCW - Q3 with ridiculous WW2 skins and a flamethrower.
ET - An attempt to make RtCW not suck, failing cos it still feels like Q3 with comic-book ww2 skins
BF1942 - Probably the only game based on Q3 that actually *has* a unique non-q3 feel. Plyd DICE.
SOF2 - Q3 with 'modern' skins
JK2 - Q3 with starwars skins (and completely spoiling the game experience from JK)
Rave all you want about your 'engine' of choice, but what's important is how much the engine in question constrains or promotes the creativity of the modders (be they true modders or source licensees). Q3 *obviously* doesn't have the flexibility of HL in this respect.
joev.