Careful When Expanding
TotalNooB
Join Date: 2003-05-21 Member: 16563Members
Join Date: 2003-05-21 Member: 16563Members
So we were playing a good game. Marines were being held back at the Messhall, our Gorge had plenty of res to play with, things were looking good. We even managed to clear Noname Hive of the small marine prescence that was set up there.
We get carapace, then our Gorge puts up the next hive. Then he puts up another hive. "Whoo! Three hives!" we think. In a few minutes we'd win the game, right?
Wrong.
Our Gorge built the hives too quickly, most of us were still skulks. When the marines attacked two hives at once, we couldn't get to both. Lack of defence setup at our new hives meant that we lost one of them quickly. Still, no problem. We have two hives and the marines are nicely contained back at their base, or so we think.
While we're running around trying to make up for the lack of O, D and Moverment Chambers, the marines have pushed their way into Messhall. Up goes the phase, res tower, turret factory and around 7 turrets. Since our Fades are going all defensive, we're having some trouble winning it back.
So then comes the next part, the marines get jetpacks and heavy machineguns. They spread accross the map pretty much unhindered, and soon have sieges up outside Port. Some nice defence means we lose our second hive. From there it's just a matter of time until the marines push their way into subspace from the messhall.
The moral of the story?
Three hives shouldn't be #1 priority. Make sure you have adequate defences around your hives and can quickly setup movement chambers before the marines retaliate. That saves most of your team from rushing around trying to save hives, so instead they can rush around trying to eat marines. You can still lose, even if you get an Onos.
We get carapace, then our Gorge puts up the next hive. Then he puts up another hive. "Whoo! Three hives!" we think. In a few minutes we'd win the game, right?
Wrong.
Our Gorge built the hives too quickly, most of us were still skulks. When the marines attacked two hives at once, we couldn't get to both. Lack of defence setup at our new hives meant that we lost one of them quickly. Still, no problem. We have two hives and the marines are nicely contained back at their base, or so we think.
While we're running around trying to make up for the lack of O, D and Moverment Chambers, the marines have pushed their way into Messhall. Up goes the phase, res tower, turret factory and around 7 turrets. Since our Fades are going all defensive, we're having some trouble winning it back.
So then comes the next part, the marines get jetpacks and heavy machineguns. They spread accross the map pretty much unhindered, and soon have sieges up outside Port. Some nice defence means we lose our second hive. From there it's just a matter of time until the marines push their way into subspace from the messhall.
The moral of the story?
Three hives shouldn't be #1 priority. Make sure you have adequate defences around your hives and can quickly setup movement chambers before the marines retaliate. That saves most of your team from rushing around trying to save hives, so instead they can rush around trying to eat marines. You can still lose, even if you get an Onos.
Comments
I usually devote my time to Res nodes first,then defenses,then the hive,nothing like locking rines in theirs bases with WoLs and Skulk harass....<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let's shorten the moral : Defenses first,then hives
Usually it is better to start one hive and defend it then start two and not, sometimes however, when you're up against some high-tech and ambitious marines, you have to start 2 just to have the chance of getting one up <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
NO! god why do people think that... I've lost so many games because of freaking gorges building OC's instead of saving up for a hive. You have to rush the second hive or you're toast against any decent marine team, plain and simple. I typically build 2 RT's, 3 D chambers (in the new hive I'm going to build mind you) and then put the 2nd hive up. After that I worry about defense.
Why do I gorge like this? you must be wondering... the answer's simple. With each second that passes your skulk friends are becoming more and more obsolete in the face of rapidly teching marines. They have an easier time defending an early hive with no OC's than a late hive with several OC's. Even if you lose your second hive, if it's fully up for 1 minute you've made a HUGE difference in the game. You have 3 movement chambers now. This makes your skulks DEADLY amushers, using either celerity or silence, and it makes lerks so much more powerful when they have adrenaline. Of course most of the time I'm gorging my team does understand basic concepts like "get back to the hive they're killing it" or "I'm the gorge and I need help at _____"
the moral of the story is that the second hive is your life or death in a game of NS. without a second hive victory is basically impossible unless the marine team really sucks. The sooner you get that second hive up, the less of a threat the marines are to it and your main hive, and the less necessary these defenses you guys like so much are. Once you have 2 hives, yes by all means go nuts with defenses. 2 hive aliens can take anything the marines dish out, so defend those 2 hives with everything you've got. In my experience it only takes a few OC's with some well placed web to defend most attacks though. And generally you can "defend" your hives better by setting up some DC's protected by a few OC's in a key location near a marine strong point so your buddies can be on the constant offensive while you run around securing a couple extra RT's and such.
You have to rush the second hive or you're toast against any decent marine team, plain and simple. I typically build 2 RT's, 3 D chambers (in the new hive I'm going to build mind you) and then put the 2nd hive up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's so... 3 months ago <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Against a good Marine team an "early" 2:nd hive usually equals 80 wasted resources and a moral boost for Marines. Then again, I don't believe in static formulas. I prefer to do whatever the Marines allow me to do. Like an amoeba growing, ignoring the places where there's resistance, and expanding into the open areas instead.
But you have to realise that your build-order was the accepted standard back when Marines were still building TF's in spawn.
I understand that in clan matches and such you have to play alien very differently, but last time I checked we weren't discussing clan matches we're discussing pubs <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
NO! god why do people think that... I've lost so many games because of freaking gorges building OC's instead of saving up for a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shortened moral isn't completely accurate. The point of the original post was to not get the third hive before you've fortified the second.
This is another one of those "play to the flow of the game, not to the textbook" situations, which require judgement in the field. Personally, if I've capped three or four RTs and have the res to get the second hive (let's say I'm the only gorge) I will usually drop one or two OCs at the new hive site before I sit and save for the hive itself. This is because if a marine shows up and blasts the crap out of me, all the res goes down the drain and we don't get any hive!
However, I don't drop OCs at the first hive until the second one is up. Why? Because there's nobody spawning\anywhere near the second hive to defend it, but there ARE skulks at the first hive. Mostly, you have to rely completely on your own OCs to defend the second hive site, at least until the hive is up.