Bile Bomb Trajectory
Macguyvok
Godlike Fuzzydice Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16162Members
Godlike Fuzzydice Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16162Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A few responces to the Beta thread</div> I was reading the bile bomb post in the beta thread, and I had an idea. Here's the post I'm responding directly too:
<!--QuoteBegin--Teoh+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teoh)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just read through that, i've got a few replies to make to the thread and since they're semi-on topic in here i'll avoid bumping it.
The supposed problem was the ability of gorges to down a marine base in an extremely short amount of time, before the marines had a chance to respond to it. Sounds sort of like the alien equivalent to a JP/HMG rush, but requiring the element of surprise. I don't really believe it's a problem but i'll get to this later.
The suggested fixes involved greatly reducing firing rate, moving bilebomb to 3 hives, changing the trajectory etc.
I feel alot of these changes would be innappropriate, in particular, i think bilebomb is necessary at 2 hives. And i certainly don't think web should be a 2 hive ability so switching them is out of the question imo. A dipping bile bomb still allows for some nasty lone-gorge base killing - Shooting from inside certain vents and making use of the trajectory to attack from out of line of sight. This could potentially be unstoppable without GL/JP.
Bilebomb is currently a very important counter to marine electric nodes/TFs, it needs to be 2nd hive, and it needs to destroy these structures effectively. The gravity defying flight path is probably to promote its use in the later game as a part of an organised base siege. -Fade/lerk/gorge attacking a base defended by marines with access to HMG/shotgun. The gorge is your siege unit, but it has to stay back against high powered weaponry otherwise it dies very quickly. You get a very RTS-esque situation where the alien team is holding ground at the entrance to a marine base, with a gorge bile bombing. This is a great parralel to marine hive sieging, and it gets around the problem of powerful marine base defence.
I like the way this works out, and think it aids the game greatly. The marine team are forced out of their base to fight the alien team away from their base defences, i can see this helping out pub games a lot as they are frequently dragged on by a marine team who has no chance of beating the alien team in an open fight, but are holed up in a hive with an obscene amount of defence. From our recent clan game i've seen just how awkward it can be to take a marine base with an electric TF - even when you have a significantly stronger force - without a bilebombing gorge.
The gorge as the alien siege cannon equivalent fits very well and performs a function that was lacking in 1.04. This will not work if bile bomb is 3rd hive, and it won't work if dipping physics greatly limit its range, the siege has to work from range, and the siege unit has to be a class that is vulnerable once you close the gap.
In a case where the attack is predicted, and the marine team are close to the aliens in terms of strength, it should not be a problem to push out of the base and kill the gorge. I don't see any sort of problem with this use of bilebomb. The other use of bilebomb against bases that was brought up was the 'ninja' bombing. Where gorges run up to your base and deal massive damage before you have time to get marines back for defence. Personally, i see this as a totally legitimate strategy that should be encouraged, and i dont see it as broken in the slightest. It has direct parallels to alot of marine attacks, specifically JP/HMG, the difference is it is perfectly stoppable if you see it coming. The ability to use hit and runs like these is a great idea, for both teams. Both marines and aliens can now punish the other midgame if they can draw them away from an important location. In this form of attack, the aliens have the advantage of speed and the marines have the advantage of full map motion tracking. I think it works out great.
Bottom line: I believe bilebomb is more or less perfect as it is, and the only change i would really be considering is a change to splash damage. Currently 1 bile bomb fired into a marine base might as well be a direct hit on every structure in there. This sort of splash effect isnt necessary for taking electric nodes or for sieging your way past marine defences in a late game push, but it does make hit and run attacks much more effective. However, i'm not convinced that this is really a bad thing, the ability to punish the opposing team for leaving themselves open is imo desirable. And marines have the ability to walk in and kill a hive extremely quickly once GL/HMG are available. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From everything I've read there, Bile bomb seems to be good as a "gravity defying projectile that hovars without flapping"... But I'm sure it doesn't LOOK right. My idea is this. Why not make the BB take a shallow arc trajectory, which could be tweeked to look more or less right, but still doesn't become "ph33r the UBER STEALTH G0RG3!!!!11oneoneone" I think this could please both camps, and make the thing look beter. Especially since this is being fired out of a 2 foot tall creature!
<!--QuoteBegin--Teoh+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teoh)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just read through that, i've got a few replies to make to the thread and since they're semi-on topic in here i'll avoid bumping it.
The supposed problem was the ability of gorges to down a marine base in an extremely short amount of time, before the marines had a chance to respond to it. Sounds sort of like the alien equivalent to a JP/HMG rush, but requiring the element of surprise. I don't really believe it's a problem but i'll get to this later.
The suggested fixes involved greatly reducing firing rate, moving bilebomb to 3 hives, changing the trajectory etc.
I feel alot of these changes would be innappropriate, in particular, i think bilebomb is necessary at 2 hives. And i certainly don't think web should be a 2 hive ability so switching them is out of the question imo. A dipping bile bomb still allows for some nasty lone-gorge base killing - Shooting from inside certain vents and making use of the trajectory to attack from out of line of sight. This could potentially be unstoppable without GL/JP.
Bilebomb is currently a very important counter to marine electric nodes/TFs, it needs to be 2nd hive, and it needs to destroy these structures effectively. The gravity defying flight path is probably to promote its use in the later game as a part of an organised base siege. -Fade/lerk/gorge attacking a base defended by marines with access to HMG/shotgun. The gorge is your siege unit, but it has to stay back against high powered weaponry otherwise it dies very quickly. You get a very RTS-esque situation where the alien team is holding ground at the entrance to a marine base, with a gorge bile bombing. This is a great parralel to marine hive sieging, and it gets around the problem of powerful marine base defence.
I like the way this works out, and think it aids the game greatly. The marine team are forced out of their base to fight the alien team away from their base defences, i can see this helping out pub games a lot as they are frequently dragged on by a marine team who has no chance of beating the alien team in an open fight, but are holed up in a hive with an obscene amount of defence. From our recent clan game i've seen just how awkward it can be to take a marine base with an electric TF - even when you have a significantly stronger force - without a bilebombing gorge.
The gorge as the alien siege cannon equivalent fits very well and performs a function that was lacking in 1.04. This will not work if bile bomb is 3rd hive, and it won't work if dipping physics greatly limit its range, the siege has to work from range, and the siege unit has to be a class that is vulnerable once you close the gap.
In a case where the attack is predicted, and the marine team are close to the aliens in terms of strength, it should not be a problem to push out of the base and kill the gorge. I don't see any sort of problem with this use of bilebomb. The other use of bilebomb against bases that was brought up was the 'ninja' bombing. Where gorges run up to your base and deal massive damage before you have time to get marines back for defence. Personally, i see this as a totally legitimate strategy that should be encouraged, and i dont see it as broken in the slightest. It has direct parallels to alot of marine attacks, specifically JP/HMG, the difference is it is perfectly stoppable if you see it coming. The ability to use hit and runs like these is a great idea, for both teams. Both marines and aliens can now punish the other midgame if they can draw them away from an important location. In this form of attack, the aliens have the advantage of speed and the marines have the advantage of full map motion tracking. I think it works out great.
Bottom line: I believe bilebomb is more or less perfect as it is, and the only change i would really be considering is a change to splash damage. Currently 1 bile bomb fired into a marine base might as well be a direct hit on every structure in there. This sort of splash effect isnt necessary for taking electric nodes or for sieging your way past marine defences in a late game push, but it does make hit and run attacks much more effective. However, i'm not convinced that this is really a bad thing, the ability to punish the opposing team for leaving themselves open is imo desirable. And marines have the ability to walk in and kill a hive extremely quickly once GL/HMG are available. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From everything I've read there, Bile bomb seems to be good as a "gravity defying projectile that hovars without flapping"... But I'm sure it doesn't LOOK right. My idea is this. Why not make the BB take a shallow arc trajectory, which could be tweeked to look more or less right, but still doesn't become "ph33r the UBER STEALTH G0RG3!!!!11oneoneone" I think this could please both camps, and make the thing look beter. Especially since this is being fired out of a 2 foot tall creature!
Comments
Its the only way to win as aliens on clanmatches I have seen working well.
so that strat is old news.