The Savage And Natural Selection
LazerMane
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2135Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2135Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A personal account and some opinions.</div> It was two days ago that i walked into Babbages and slapped down five bucks for a preorder of S2 Games' The Savage: Battle for Newerth and ran home on my Vespa Miniscooter, scanned in the reciept and emailed it off to S2 Games' Beta department.
I got my invitation last night and downloaded and installed the client this morning. Have been playing ever since then.
This ain't going to be a "OMG this gmae is sow awesme you shodul g0 and buy no\/\/~!!1" post.
I am above it. I think.
Anyway, after playing in a game with a similar RTS+FPS system i must say that i am quite impressed with it. We shall see soon whether it has any addictive staying power. The thing about it that i noticed was very impressive was simply the way that the Peons/players in the FPS world cooperated synchopatiously with the commander. About my third or fourth game in i came up with a thesis.
Perhaps the reason the troops rely on the commander is because they don't have the big picture. Most of them only see a small part of the map at any one time and usually have no idea of what the commander is doing away from them much less what the enemy troops are doing. Their lives rest entirely in the hands of their commander, who can see everything on their side all at once.
Of couse all grunts/FPS Troopers come equipped with an overview map for general navigation, but the only blips represented on that map are of them and some surrounding buildings and units. Thus the commander has to tell them where the hotspots for battle are and how best to attack.
Marines in NS generally know the layout of the map and from indirect evidence can formulate an entire mental picture of what is going on through teammates, killings, sounds, alien movements. In essence they can practically become their own personal Commanders and can tell themselves where things are likely to happen, and act accordingly. That is why i think you get marines that **** at their commanders for trying something that doesnt agree with their own tactics and why you get marines that whine for weapons and run off to do their own foolish bidding.
I'm not saying its better or worse, but an act of the comm in The Savage is like an act of god. You walk around and have an unrivaled faith in your commander and your commander alone. Sometime you simply can have fun leveling yourself up just by battling the NPC nasties in the area. But then it all changes... your nation goes to war, and an unearthly voice rattles down from the sky saying "Go here" and a bolt of etherial energy shines down from the clouds over your destination. Loyalty points are the only thing that result from following orders, but it is a mighty fine feeling to have helped out your own Deity commited to your and your faction's survival. Stuff like that just demands an unspeakable respect and faith in thy commander. Question not, lest ye be demoted and shamed.
The marines see the comm as just another marine sitting in a chair with its own air conditioning, self-serve martinis and god knows what else. Just another marine being stingy because he doesn't want to pay attention to you personally. Okay so, big deal right? An intelligent marine would recognise this, right? I don't think so. In the heat and pressure of battle, you become primarily concerned for yourself, regardless of how much a part of a team you think you are.
True some see it this way, but these people are few, or at least of what i have seen on pub servers.
So i say that one, even if it is slight, the image that one has for thy commander is signifigant. In The Savage, your commander is a God. In NS, your commander is mortal, and is guilty of being just as much of a screwup as you are. XD
I also think that Number Two is that the marine at any given time knows too much about the current state of the entire team and their tech status, which i dont really think can be changed in Natural Selection's case, but its worthy of being noted. The marine seems to know what the commander does, so why not Comm for himself, just outside of the chair?
*would put in two pennies, but is flat broke after he spent five dollars on a preorder yesterday and four million dollars for an old abandoned missile silo*
LM
I got my invitation last night and downloaded and installed the client this morning. Have been playing ever since then.
This ain't going to be a "OMG this gmae is sow awesme you shodul g0 and buy no\/\/~!!1" post.
I am above it. I think.
Anyway, after playing in a game with a similar RTS+FPS system i must say that i am quite impressed with it. We shall see soon whether it has any addictive staying power. The thing about it that i noticed was very impressive was simply the way that the Peons/players in the FPS world cooperated synchopatiously with the commander. About my third or fourth game in i came up with a thesis.
Perhaps the reason the troops rely on the commander is because they don't have the big picture. Most of them only see a small part of the map at any one time and usually have no idea of what the commander is doing away from them much less what the enemy troops are doing. Their lives rest entirely in the hands of their commander, who can see everything on their side all at once.
Of couse all grunts/FPS Troopers come equipped with an overview map for general navigation, but the only blips represented on that map are of them and some surrounding buildings and units. Thus the commander has to tell them where the hotspots for battle are and how best to attack.
Marines in NS generally know the layout of the map and from indirect evidence can formulate an entire mental picture of what is going on through teammates, killings, sounds, alien movements. In essence they can practically become their own personal Commanders and can tell themselves where things are likely to happen, and act accordingly. That is why i think you get marines that **** at their commanders for trying something that doesnt agree with their own tactics and why you get marines that whine for weapons and run off to do their own foolish bidding.
I'm not saying its better or worse, but an act of the comm in The Savage is like an act of god. You walk around and have an unrivaled faith in your commander and your commander alone. Sometime you simply can have fun leveling yourself up just by battling the NPC nasties in the area. But then it all changes... your nation goes to war, and an unearthly voice rattles down from the sky saying "Go here" and a bolt of etherial energy shines down from the clouds over your destination. Loyalty points are the only thing that result from following orders, but it is a mighty fine feeling to have helped out your own Deity commited to your and your faction's survival. Stuff like that just demands an unspeakable respect and faith in thy commander. Question not, lest ye be demoted and shamed.
The marines see the comm as just another marine sitting in a chair with its own air conditioning, self-serve martinis and god knows what else. Just another marine being stingy because he doesn't want to pay attention to you personally. Okay so, big deal right? An intelligent marine would recognise this, right? I don't think so. In the heat and pressure of battle, you become primarily concerned for yourself, regardless of how much a part of a team you think you are.
True some see it this way, but these people are few, or at least of what i have seen on pub servers.
So i say that one, even if it is slight, the image that one has for thy commander is signifigant. In The Savage, your commander is a God. In NS, your commander is mortal, and is guilty of being just as much of a screwup as you are. XD
I also think that Number Two is that the marine at any given time knows too much about the current state of the entire team and their tech status, which i dont really think can be changed in Natural Selection's case, but its worthy of being noted. The marine seems to know what the commander does, so why not Comm for himself, just outside of the chair?
*would put in two pennies, but is flat broke after he spent five dollars on a preorder yesterday and four million dollars for an old abandoned missile silo*
LM
Comments
I hope people understood that Savage and NS aren't mutually exclusive as great games.
LM
I wonder, does Savage use voicecom as extensively as NS does? VC is the primary reason why the average marine has the same knowledge about the big picture as the commander, thereby enabling him to have an independent opinion about commander decisions. The more information you give the marine players, the less likely they are to rely on the commander for guidance. The NS commander is often reduced to the guy who places the buildings.
It would be a funny experiment to disable voice/chat reception for normal marines. They could be able to relay information, but couldn't receive any, except orders from the commander. Ultimately totally unfeasible from an design standpoint, but it would be interesting to watch the playstyle change as the bond to your commander becomes much deeper.
There is interest in implementing such a feature in Savage right now. It isn't necessary but it significantly enhances the multiplayer experience. In my opinion, all online multiplayer games should have it from this time forward. (especially those which involve teamplay and strategic organization among players)
The games that i see now a days that DONT have Vcom i despise, because it is so damned irritating to TYPE stuff out.
Anyway, BACK TO TEH SAVAGE.
www.s2games.com
(we need betatesters!)
LM
Choose to be a commander and you will play an in-depth RTS managing the stronghold, or choose to be a warrior and you will play an intense game of first person combat. With the creation of a new game play genre, RTSS (Real Time Strategy Shooter), Savage expertly redefines the first-person shooter and real-time strategy genres by combining elements of both into one cohesive experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think someone should point Natural Selection out to them. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Looks very interesting though, I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this one. Playing with 64 players at the same time would be great.
Yes it is, but i think that S2 Games at the moment is a little embarrased about accepting beta testers from the general internet-applying populous, simply because they don't have even half the game finished yet. The Beast Horde was implimented last week, but they are scant and horribly imbalanced.
I think they want Beta testers that are so devoted to the cause of helping them that at the moment they will only risk allowing those who actually love the game enough to spend money on it to see it grow.
So you can get in. Just not yet. Besides, go and preorder it (Babbages, Gamestop, Electronics Botique..) because it doesn't cost much at ALL to be able to play the game for what.... until it is released in August, which is like.... TWO MONTHS. That is a damned good price for that amount of time when compared to other games online like Planetside and EQ...
So... 13 bucks a month for MOST games, five dollars for two months of Savage... that runs with my math as a 192% savings.
Bear in mind that my math is really screwed up XD
LM
however I am signing up, but check this out:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Typically, how much time do you spend playing online computer games?
? ? - None, but I'm willing to change.
? ? - 1-10 hours per week: I like to play now and then.
? ? - 11-25 hours per week: I'm your average gamer.
? ? - 26-40 hours per week: I'm a little nutty for the video games.
? ? - 40+ hours per week: My bloodstream contains enough caffeine to drop a healthy adult hippo, CRT is the only light my eyes know, and I've missed countless hours of sleep as well as important appointments like graduation for the sake of "one more round."
How would you best describe your interest in online gaming? This answer will not directly affect your application.
? ? - Stranger: I've never actually played a game, but I hear good things.
? ? - Newbie: I'll play my brother's/sister's copy of Counterstrike now and then.
? ? - Veteran: I've tried a lot of titles. I stop and browse the game shelves whenever I go to rent a movie. I've had a few favorites I've played regularly for months or years.
? ? - "Pro": I was there on the second beta when no one even had guns! It was knife only! They hadn't implemented guns at all yet. And I beta'd for Super Mario Brothers?.
? ? - Fanatic: I have played everything. I know of every easter egg and bug in every map. I own at least 4 console systems, have nostalgia for early titles and despise "the industry" for tainting such a pure and noble pasttime. I also have no idea if the sun still rises or sets.
What do you personally evaluate your skill with computers to be?
? ? - Beginner: Thankfully my Dell? came with a repair disk.
? ? - Average: I can install programs and configure my hardware without smoke or fire engulfing the case.
? ? - Advanced: I couldn't squeeze another hertz of clockspeed out of the RAM on my graphics card. I also built the cooling myself.
Are you a professional game developer?
? ? - Yes, but I am not here to spy.
? ? - Yes, and I am here to spy.
? ? - No, but I am lying to cover up my spying.
? ? - No
Are you a member of the media?
? ? - Yes, but I will strictly adhere to the NDA.
? ? - Yes, but I really need an exclusive on this.
? ? - No.
Please give us a brief yet convincing reason why you would make an excellent choice for a beta tester. Also note "dude I am the coolest" or a l33tspeak variation is not a valid entry.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I LIKE THEM
edit, added the last one
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes it is, but i think that S2 Games at the moment is a little embarrased about accepting beta testers from the general internet-applying populous, simply because they don't have even half the game finished yet. The Beast Horde was implimented last week, but they are scant and horribly imbalanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->They're not embarrassed about anything. A fraction of the beast horde was implemented in only one server as a taste of what's to come. They assume people who sign-up know what a beta means. The balancing is coming along quite nicely at this pace. It can be very fun.
It's not a deity. It's called a "commander". It is unknown to the general public right now whether you can eject a commander, but it would be a mistake for this type of game to release without such a feature don't you think?
It's not a deity. It's called a "commander". It is unknown to the general public right now whether you can eject a commander, but it would be a mistake for this type of game to release without such a feature don't you think? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, Allegiance doesnt have an eject, as far as i can tell. And every game ive been in has not required such a feature. I actually dont think the lamer-goes-in-the-comm-position-and-ruins-everything is a that big a problem. Its actually worse in NS where you can eject, than in Alleg, where you cant <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh and i aint pimping allegiance...its just that i started playing it reciently and have made a few comparisons between how it does things and how ns does things.
1:
has any one else signed up in the past day or so? If so did you get a confermation email? (I signed up yester day but my mail server was down all weekend)
2:
The thing that I am really interested about is what it will be like when it goes public.
My interest is what if people had to pay to gert NS? Would the still be as dippy? More so? Less so?
An interesting (though non valid) comparison is Alegiance.
Alegiance requires you to either send em $1 or be aponsered by a curent player. They instituted this b/c cheating was running rampent, it now seems to be D - E - D dead.
Though you can't realy compare alegiance to NS b/c alegiance has about 10 servers with possibly 50 people on at peaks, where as NS, well NS is HUGE.
oh btw, if you were a member of this board for a while, you can get in allegiance without all that funky stuff