How To Make Sensory Viable First
Supernorn
Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">(or an idea that probably wouldnt work)</div> After reading <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=34707' target='_blank'>here</a> that sensory chambers are <i>still</i> not viable first, after all the excellent ideas and testing that has gone on over the months, i have come up with an idea to make them much more appealing.
It seems continous scanner sweeps render sensory chambers useless at the moment, and I assume they can give the location of cloaked hives.
following on from archhaven's idea of only aliens being un-cloaked to scanner sweeps, what if cloaked structures were immune to them? (including hives)
Scanner sweeps would then reveal aliens and un-cloaked structures, but would not reveal cloaked buildings. This would be appealing to aliens, as getting sensory first would stop the commander figuring out which hive they have in the first 2 minutes of the game. This would certainly slow down rushes which can end the game before its even begun, as marines wouldn't know what hive to rush first.
At the moment, the hive plays a sound which can be heard by the commander, and can give the location away, this should be removed if this idea is to go in, as it would give the game away.
Your thoughts? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It seems continous scanner sweeps render sensory chambers useless at the moment, and I assume they can give the location of cloaked hives.
following on from archhaven's idea of only aliens being un-cloaked to scanner sweeps, what if cloaked structures were immune to them? (including hives)
Scanner sweeps would then reveal aliens and un-cloaked structures, but would not reveal cloaked buildings. This would be appealing to aliens, as getting sensory first would stop the commander figuring out which hive they have in the first 2 minutes of the game. This would certainly slow down rushes which can end the game before its even begun, as marines wouldn't know what hive to rush first.
At the moment, the hive plays a sound which can be heard by the commander, and can give the location away, this should be removed if this idea is to go in, as it would give the game away.
Your thoughts? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=34748' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=34748</a>
When the marines build on top of powersilo it is pretty hard to spot until it's too late <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Won't this limit the stragetic options for marines?
Because the advantages it gives you are identical to that of other chambers, yet in weaker form.
Advanced hive sight? Or proper teamwork and scouting?
Cloaking? Or carefully planned ambushes, or just get bigger and badder lifeforms?
Seriously, what the heck is it's <b>advantage?</b>
It's seems so weak and difficult to use...
Only thing is, if you make it so sweeps dont decect cloaked buildings, its possible that there would be no way at all to use a seige cannon, because without finding the invisible SC and destroying it with guns, theres no way to target the seige.
1.) Turrets have a harder time to hit aliens with the jam upgrade. Something about 50% less hits.
2.) Mines dont trigger if an alien with the jam upgrade runs over them. Or have a fixed % chance to set one off for example if an alien runs ofer a mine theres a 20% chance the mine detects him and blows (like russian roulette <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
3.) The upgrade jams the detection system of electrified structures allowing the aliens to chew them without taking damage
This upgrade fits the sensory chanmber, would be usefull on offense and compensate for the lack of armor or adrenaline/speed the aliens have if they choose sensory over the other chambers. And it would require different tactics for the marines if sensory is build cause its a counter to the usual tactics to just mine spam or electrify the nodes forcing them to defend more but having the advantage to kill the aliens easier.
Some sneaky scenerios I envision would be:
1) Cloak first hive and build chambers with sensory in second hive location early on. This would lead the marines to think the hive is in second location, but cloaked.
2) Create "train" of senosries to provided cloaked route to key locations.
3) Anti-siege choke-hold points
4) Create "holes" in marine vision where ambushes can be used.
5) It would give more incentive fo Gorges to cap a res node since marines can now easily see if the node is capped or not. Uncapped nodes would be fair game for spray and pray to decloak sucking gorges. Now gorges need to be team players again.
6) Marines can still nade/HMG a WOL to death, but not seige them from a safe distance.
7) Use you rimagination <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
but yer it sounds like a decent idea.. although if stuff stays cloaked, then walls of lame could be ptu every where without any having aclue O_O
1.) Turrets have a harder time to hit aliens with the jam upgrade. Something about 50% less hits.
2.) Mines dont trigger if an alien with the jam upgrade runs over them. Or have a fixed % chance to set one off for example if an alien runs ofer a mine theres a 20% chance the mine detects him and blows (like russian roulette <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
3.) The upgrade jams the detection system of electrified structures allowing the aliens to chew them without taking damage
This upgrade fits the sensory chanmber, would be usefull on offense and compensate for the lack of armor or adrenaline/speed the aliens have if they choose sensory over the other chambers. And it would require different tactics for the marines if sensory is build cause its a counter to the usual tactics to just mine spam or electrify the nodes forcing them to defend more but having the advantage to kill the aliens easier. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ouch that idea almost makes all other sensory upgrades useless. I'd prefer if jam worked the way you said but one of the other sensory upgrades negated marine abilities rather than building abilities. EG: 1 for marines and 1 for buildings. The anti marine tech would be reduced effect of MT or complete removal of MT for that alien as well as giving cloak to it when not moving or attacking.
The third well its got me baffled maybe some sort of compromise between the two or sumthing totally different. Perhaps increased attack strength and increased attack speed i dunno perhaps too overpowered (increase energy cost to combat it).
Suggestions, ideas??
- RD
A few ways that sensories could have offensive capabilities: 1) increased damage evolution, basically as a counter to armor level one and would help with area denial (lerks) 2) MT blocker evolution (so you can make sneak attacks), which still won't make it first-chamber worthy because the marines don't usually go MT THAT early 3) something that you can already do in 1.1: build sensories in choke points, man with skulks. Countered with observatory scans (it does need a counter, after all).
Note: One thing that sensory will absolutely need to be viable as first hive chamber is that it will have to be useful for lerks. Cloaking isn't useful, because you become visible when you attack and you have to attack for long periods straight with spikes/spores. The detection abilities aren't really useful for lerks either (or at least not nearly as useful as for melee kharaa). If going sensory deprives you of lerks, it deprives you of options.
i.e. Make it work while moving. You start off just semi-translucant, so it's only a bit more difficult to see you, and this improves with the level of cloaking that you have up to L3, which is like the current version is when you stop. When you attack you decloak though.
Knowing where rines are helps all aliens.
If sense upgraded the attack somehow then it would also help lerks. I agree lerks prolly not as effective as other aliens with sense first but it would have definate uses.
- RD
i.e. Make it work while moving. You start off just semi-translucant, so it's only a bit more difficult to see you, and this improves with the level of cloaking that you have up to L3, which is like the current version is when you stop. When you attack you decloak though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This idea should really be tested and played around with, if it hasn't been already. It would be a definite offensive advantage. However, I think the percentage of transparency would have to be toned down considerably from current levels. Perhaps it could be combined with nullification of motion tracking as well, to round it out. Just to toss out some numbers, how about 25% transparency at level 1, 50% at level 2, and 70% at level 3. You would still cloak completely within range of a sensory however.
Another idea I've been thinking of is 100% transparency for a limited amount of time, depending on how many chambers you have. For instance, 3 seconds at level 1, 5 seconds at level 2 and 6 seconds at level 3. You would have to activate this ability and there would be a cooldown period once the cloak wears off.
1.) Turrets have a harder time to hit aliens with the jam upgrade. Something about 50% less hits.
2.) Mines dont trigger if an alien with the jam upgrade runs over them. Or have a fixed % chance to set one off for example if an alien runs ofer a mine theres a 20% chance the mine detects him and blows (like russian roulette <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
3.) The upgrade jams the detection system of electrified structures allowing the aliens to chew them without taking damage
This upgrade fits the sensory chanmber, would be usefull on offense and compensate for the lack of armor or adrenaline/speed the aliens have if they choose sensory over the other chambers. And it would require different tactics for the marines if sensory is build cause its a counter to the usual tactics to just mine spam or electrify the nodes forcing them to defend more but having the advantage to kill the aliens easier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ouch that idea almost makes all other sensory upgrades useless. I'd prefer if jam worked the way you said but one of the other sensory upgrades negated marine abilities rather than building abilities. EG: 1 for marines and 1 for buildings. The anti marine tech would be reduced effect of MT or complete removal of MT for that alien as well as giving cloak to it when not moving or attacking.
The third well its got me baffled maybe some sort of compromise between the two or sumthing totally different. Perhaps increased attack strength and increased attack speed i dunno perhaps too overpowered (increase energy cost to combat it).
Suggestions, ideas??
- RD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn?t make the other upgrades useless since higher alien evolutions have nothing to fear from automated defenses since they don?t pose a threat to them so they would be better of taking scent of fear or cloaking. Increasing attack strenght would be a bad idea. Imagine an already powerful onos with that upgrade. That would be overpowered. Increasing attack speed is already in the game in form of lerks primal scream. The game should encourage human defense over automated defense since it promotes teamwork. So a counter to automatic defenses would be good for a change of tactics on the marine side. And only skulks and lerks could gain an advantage since they are the only lifeforms that have to fear those defenses. I like the MT + cloak idea. Would make the cloak-upgrade useful. I mean the aliens are left without all the leet offensive upgrades that DC and MC give them so they need to gain something usefull with SC?s.
I would also throw in some kind of anti-MT upgrade. If Jam and Anti-MT were in - Sensory would own.
Because marines quickly become dependant on it, just one skulk that didn't show up makes the alien that much scarier.
How about.... A 'Ghost Image' upgrade? Where Aliens with cloak do show up on MT, but in the wrong places? Within a radius based on number of Chambers?
2.) Mines dont trigger if an alien with the jam upgrade runs over them. Or have a fixed % chance to set one off for example if an alien runs ofer a mine theres a 20% chance the mine detects him and blows (like russian roulette <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
3.) The upgrade jams the detection system of electrified structures allowing the aliens to chew them without taking damage
This upgrade fits the sensory chanmber, would be usefull on offense and compensate for the lack of armor or adrenaline/speed the aliens have if they choose sensory over the other chambers. And it would require different tactics for the marines if sensory is build cause its a counter to the usual tactics to just mine spam or electrify the nodes forcing them to defend more but having the advantage to kill the aliens easier. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow... this is a great idea!
I'd say that the numbers are a bit high, but something along the lines he mentions is good.