1.1 Ns Purposely Delayed?

HawkeyeHawkeye Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Playtesting beyond absurdity?</div> Not to be a miser of sorts, but I'm ready for 1.1 to be released! It seems to me that they have either been playtesting to death. Take a look at this for instance:

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[ 2/07/03 ] :: NS wins Gamespy Mod of The Year 2002

It's our pleasure to announce that Natural Selection has been selected by Gamespy editors as the recipient of their prestigious Best Modification in a PC Game award for 2002. The full feature can be read here.
Gamespy reports that more then a million gamers read this story, so let's hope to see some more servers and custom maps coming online.
In other news, NS v1.1 is due to go into playtesting in about a week. Check the general forum for screenshots showing the HLTV technology in action. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Take a look at the date on that. 2/07/03. "NS v1.1 is due to go into playtesting in about a week." Okay, so that's 2/14/03, right? What day is it now? 6/7/03? That's almost 4 months of playtesting? Is this really necessary?

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[ 6/06/03 ] :: Veteran program expanding overseas


In order to make sure NS v1.1 is as balanced and deep as it possibly can be, the Veteran program is expanding. The team is looking for some clans outside of the US, especially in Australia, New Zealand, Korea, Japan, Scandinavia and the UK. The only clans that aren't being sought after at this stage are U.S. clans. Clans that play both FPS and RTS, or that compete regularly in CAL, CPL or other competitions will be given special consideration.

If your clan would like to be considered, please send links to demos, your clan homepage and any other info that shows the team you have what it takes to veteran@natural-selection.org. If admitted, up to 10 of your clan members will be admitted immediately to the program.

Your responsibilities include "scrimming" and "PUGing" as much as possible, at least a couple times a week. You will also need to provide constructive feedback on the forums. Keep in mind that you'll be playing largely on U.S. run servers and will be expected to communicate in English. Clans should be creative, skilled, active and also comfortable with .zip files and using the NS forums.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now take a look at this. Veteran playtesting overseas? Are they preparing NS v1.1 to be bought by the public or what? I don't even think quake3 was playtested this much before going public. I don't want to make any hasty judgements on the ability of the developers, but heck, I mean if "balancing" is the issue, then what is the harm in letting everyone else play in the meanwhile? It is just seeming to me that this is one big "we have 1.1 and you don't" club. Really what is the point? Can someone tell me why they are so terribly afraid to release 1.1 if it is unbalanced at all?

Comments

  • HKKHKK Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16489Members
    edited June 2003
    They are just trying to get it perfect of course that will never happen, but the more they play the less the bugs.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    GSI is notorious for taking rumors, indicative mumblings, and things their grandparents heard for real fact. Playtesting didn't start that soon.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited June 2003
    And I for one LOVE having playtesting takes months and months! I mean, it's so cool to work 70-80 hours a week as a server contractor, then spend another 40 a week doing things like testing minute gameplay changes, building spreadsheets of game mirrors after kissing booty to get file space, and generally doing all the least fun bits of making a mod. It really waxes my jabber! NO REALLY!!!! It's why we make it last sooooo loonnngggg!!!

    -_-

    /sarcastic ranfest completed. Please carry on.
  • Red_WizardRed_Wizard Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16241Members
    It's because v1.1 is more or less a complete rework of new balancing. Imagine taking Q3 and reworking half of the weapons and special effects. Of course these sorts of things are going to need to be tested to ensure that they are balanced, even moreso in a game where opposing sides are so different. Q3, DoD, CS, TFC, and the like are easier to balance because what one side has the other also has... not so in NS. Be patient, after all... you don't want a half-finished product where the kharaa ALWAYS win, do you?
  • HawkeyeHawkeye Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
    The veterans get the horrible fate of being able to playtest 1.1 NS where aliens always win. Oh the horror. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    So, basically, all you try to convey is that you want this completely free game <i>right now</i>, and that it's our fault for not delivering?
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    Hey id rather they take their time and make the worlds greatest mod even better then rush out a piece of crap which i highly doubt will happen.
  • OttoDestructOttoDestruct Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7790Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you don't want a half-finished product where the kharaa ALWAYS win, do you?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes actually I do... stupid humans...
  • HawkeyeHawkeye Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jun 7 2003, 10:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 7 2003, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, basically, all you try to convey is that you want this completely free game <i>right now</i>, and that it's our fault for not delivering? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well yeah. I mean, whose fault would it be if not yours?

    You make me sound bad by putting it that way, but when it boils down to it, yeah that's what I'm saying. I realize I'm in no place to demand the game to come out sooner. I just love NS, and it seems that everybody is being deprived of 1.1 simply because playtesting is so darn tough. How balanced did you intend on making it? You realize 1.0 isn't balanced completely, right? The games aren't 50/50. Of course it depends on the map, but generally speaking, aliens win more than they lose. So if the NS community is used to this, why wouldn't we be used to a slight imbalance in 1.1? If you're worried people will criticize your changes in 1.1, well that will happen no matter how balanced it is.

    I just ask the developers the simple question "What is the harm in allowing servers to play 1.1 if they wish to join in the excitement?"

    I presume the answer is "Nothing that wouldn't happen if we released it when it was more balanced."

    That's all.
  • LikuLiku I, am the Somberlain. Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12128Members
    Half-Life 2 will be out before NS 1.1.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Liku+Jun 8 2003, 12:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jun 8 2003, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Half-Life 2 will be out before NS 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wanna make a bet?
  • DreadDread Join Date: 2002-07-24 Member: 993Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jun 7 2003, 10:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 7 2003, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, basically, all you try to convey is that you want this completely free game <i>right now</i>, and that it's our fault for not delivering? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The fun part is, they already have the game. They are demanding for an update.




    See how cleverly I used <i>they</i> to indicate that I'm not part of the masses but above them and that I don't whine constantly to get 1.1

    Give it to me.
  • dr_ddr_d Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14979Members
    The problem is there was a serious lack of playtesting because PT's had school and work issues, hopefully it will pick up speed now that summer has arrive.

    Although Flay is off playing Alligence when he should be working, grrr : )
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Jun 8 2003, 01:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jun 8 2003, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is there was a serious lack of playtesting because PT's had school and work issues, hopefully it will pick up speed now that summer has arrive.

    Although Flay is off playing Alligence when he should be working, grrr : ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yah, Flay, like, having fun is, like, a capital offence d00d. Good thing I don't know his address (puts white powder away).
  • JefeJefe Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15734Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Hawkeye+Jun 7 2003, 04:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Jun 7 2003, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You realize 1.0 isn't balanced completely, right? The games aren't 50/50. Of course it depends on the map, but generally speaking, aliens win more than they lose. So if the NS community is used to this, why wouldn't we be used to a slight imbalance in 1.1? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Let me quote some random Monse interview I saw somewhere: "1.0 is proof of concept." They made 1.0 to show the world something that had never seen before. Also in the same interview: "1.1 is just adding a degree of polish to that concept." They're not exact quotes but...whatever.

    Let them take their time and 1.1 will be 10 times better than what it is now.
  • antifreezeantifreeze The guy with the goods&#33; Join Date: 2003-05-12 Member: 16232Members, Constellation
    Hawkeye your a fool..
    Do you have any idea how much industry games get tested...

    /me sighs and leaves
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    edited June 2003
    its times like this that I wish I had a large stick on the net, mmm, black hammer, (ok so I am a shadowrunner <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)

    look, ther reason why it looks bad when he puts it that way IS B/C YOU LOOK BAD NO MATTER HOW YOU SAY IT! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    and what would hapen if 1.1 was released for public consumption?

    1) most poeple would not beable to play b/c:
    most servers take about a day to update their stuf when it aint that big (and with patches atleaset once a week <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
    All of the threads of 'flay is an idiot b/c he changed xxx thing that I liked' will now be 1000 fold (I think we do need a large stick to give to the admins to deal with poeple like this, then agian I know I would manage to get on the wrong end of that stick <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> /me takes stick back from MonsE)

    I still find it amuzing that the whining is actualy worse now then when we were waiting for 1.0 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    @Anti:
    They don't thats why NS is so much better then them (well that and Flay is god <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
  • SaltySalty Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6970Members
    If you want it faster send them money so then monse, flay and all of them don't have to have day jobs and can focus only on just NS. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DiablusDiablus Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jun 7 2003, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jun 7 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you want it faster send them money so then monse, flay and all of them don't have to have day jobs and can focus only on just NS. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Comeon.. we all know money goes to booze <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> J/k J/k, i actually agree with this thread, if it was that long ago shouldn't it almost be done? but i read a week ago how flay is still working on the coding for the fade... now it jsut started overseas, i also DO agree with this im in 1.1 and your not because devs wont let play testers post images, little movies and a beta discussion that is closed, i feel to read playtesters whine n complain about bugs isnt bad but its almost maknig us 1.0 players seem to be "outside" hmm i wonder.. can this be a big scam and no ns 1.1 at all <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> hehe
  • roachemsroachems Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15148Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Hawkeye+Jun 7 2003, 05:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Jun 7 2003, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't want to make any hasty judgements on the ability of the developers, but heck, I mean if "balancing" is the issue, then what is the harm in letting everyone else play in the meanwhile? It is just seeming to me that this is one big "we have 1.1 and you don't" club. Really what is the point? Can someone tell me why they are so terribly afraid to release 1.1 if it is unbalanced at all? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree.
  • NecroNecro &lt;insert non-birthday-related title here&gt; Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1118Members
    flay will release it when he feels it's done. he doesn't have to release it because you want it out. in the end you will complain how come you released this early, why it's so buggy, how come its unbalanced.

    flay owes you NOTHING.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Neverminding the 'balance; and such, part of the things that are still underway are new maps being polished and tweaked, as well as media, anims, sounds, sekrat stuff, etc. So even if the code was 100% done and stable, there'd still be some tasks. Not a huge amount of work, but NS will not come out tomorrow.
  • pardzhpardzh Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1601Members
    Wow, this thread is pretty dumb. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Why would they purposely delay 1.1? You haven't even given us your big conspiriacy theory behind that. I'm quite willing to wait until August for 1.1, as long as it comes out balanced for clanplay. Expanding the Veteran program is spiffy, in my opinion, because that means it <i>will</i> be balanced for clanplay.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I like popcorn. Popcorn tastes great!
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    This thread's average IQ = 0. Hawkeye, I expected better from you. Do you know how long they spent balancing 1.0? Remember how it still wasn't balanced, even though they spent so much time? Evidently not, if you're posting this drivel.
  • James_H4xwellJames_H4xwell Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11518Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DOOManiac+Jun 7 2003, 09:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Jun 7 2003, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like popcorn. Popcorn tastes great! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Icecream tastes good too....
  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    edited June 2003
    I'd just like to point out that 1.04 is one of <b>the</b> most balanced builds of NS I've played, and I've been here since release. As often as I say this, no one seems to notice: you need to play on a good server.

    This game <b>can</b> be compared to CS in this case. You go to a total n00b server and start pwning, but go to a server like [Hard] Clan and get a score of 0 and 11 and start whining about cheaters and unbalanced guns. That's not the case. The general skill level varies, and this is true of NS. If you go to John Q. Public's server, kick arse as alien, but go to another server where you see the marines win more often, it's not a balance issue. Well, it is a balance issue, just not a <b>game</b> balance issue, it's a server balance issue (teamstacking, whatever).
    [edit]I had to change a few wordings as to not make people think that I've been here longer than I have. [/edit]
  • AhnteisAhnteis teh Bob Join Date: 2002-10-02 Member: 1405Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--antifreeze+Jun 7 2003, 11:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (antifreeze @ Jun 7 2003, 11:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do you have any idea how much industry games get tested...
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Judging from most of the games I've played, I'd say about 10 minutes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS will not come out tomorrow.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    w00t. Let's rush this quote off to some fansites. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Maybe throw a link in from the general forum! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    On a side note, what is WITH this smilie?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
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