Since I Can't Talk In The Beta
Windelkron
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
<div class="IPBDescription">1.1p thoughts</div> I think 1.1p is probably nearing the final release candidate, and here are my thoughts.
O Removed health upgrade
-- good
O Heavy armor is now immune to spores (the model has a gas mask anyways)
-- bad. HA blocked 95% damage anyway!
O Offense chambers increased to 10 points (health is 1200)
-- balance, no comment
O Electrified structures are still being killed by groups of coordinated hive-1 alien. Increased damage to 30, and max targets to 3.
-- <b>WTH is wrong with coordinated 1-hive aliens killing electrified structures? </b>Teamwork should be encouraged, not countered, darn it!
O Increased phase gate health from 2000 to 3000
-- yay
O Changed onos ability ordering back to gore -> stomp -> devour -> charge
-- good
O Put marine resources for kills back in. The marine sound is placeholder. Play rising numeric effect at point kill was scored.
-- bad, think of how many res the marines will get with one good HMGer mowing down 6 skulks in a row
O Changed handicapping to reduce damage done instead of affecting resources (means build orders and tech are the same, but battles are harder for handicapped teams). Handicapping only takes effect in tournament mode. I hope someone gets around to testing this soon, perhaps between the PTs and Vets (vets with a mp_team2handicap of .7 or so?).
-- whatever, dont understand
O Marine resource tower cost lowered from 20 to 15
-- balance, no comment
O Lowered bile bomb damage from 225 to 200
-- fine
O Removed health upgrade
-- good
O Heavy armor is now immune to spores (the model has a gas mask anyways)
-- bad. HA blocked 95% damage anyway!
O Offense chambers increased to 10 points (health is 1200)
-- balance, no comment
O Electrified structures are still being killed by groups of coordinated hive-1 alien. Increased damage to 30, and max targets to 3.
-- <b>WTH is wrong with coordinated 1-hive aliens killing electrified structures? </b>Teamwork should be encouraged, not countered, darn it!
O Increased phase gate health from 2000 to 3000
-- yay
O Changed onos ability ordering back to gore -> stomp -> devour -> charge
-- good
O Put marine resources for kills back in. The marine sound is placeholder. Play rising numeric effect at point kill was scored.
-- bad, think of how many res the marines will get with one good HMGer mowing down 6 skulks in a row
O Changed handicapping to reduce damage done instead of affecting resources (means build orders and tech are the same, but battles are harder for handicapped teams). Handicapping only takes effect in tournament mode. I hope someone gets around to testing this soon, perhaps between the PTs and Vets (vets with a mp_team2handicap of .7 or so?).
-- whatever, dont understand
O Marine resource tower cost lowered from 20 to 15
-- balance, no comment
O Lowered bile bomb damage from 225 to 200
-- fine
Comments
But the elec node thing seems a bit...off. Coordinated groups are good, right? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good point.
Think the elec thing and res kill for marines are gonna be taken back soon. 3 targets and 30 dmg? That is really too much I guess. (what is the shooting speed?) Maybe slow this down instead. Don't know. They not thinking of PUB players. It's hard to coordinate them there. Maybe put it down in pubs to 20 and 2 targets?
Players have to learn games. But they don't learn it like NS they learn like CS. Were everyone is only worth his own life. You can't fit a game to players the players must fit the game.
But it should really differ in tournament and pub mode. It's just hard to find 3-4 skulks to take down something there.
-Make stomp take more energy(so it's less often used)
-Seems like electrifying is a good way to defend nodes currently, but maybe up the electrifying upgrade cost? Then we would see normal chambers too and Commanders would electrify only nodes deep in enemy territory.
-Don't make HA counter spores completely. Nothing should disable an ability completely, maybe just 60% resistance?
-Maybe something should be done to replace marines getting res for kills...doesn't sound right.
I got it...marines don't get res for killing Skulks, they get res only for higher Kharaa lifeforms? Or even better, Marines don't get res for killing Kharaa but they get res for killing Kharaa chambers! They kill chambers and destroy the bacterium and thus not so much nanites are needed...or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Other than that, <b>great job!</b>
All this rushing skulks has just been the way people want the skulk to be, not how it was intended
Well, you see since res towers don't give out res until two minutes after they are built (and this includes the marine starting res!!!), nad only aliens used to get res for kills, this meant that aliens have a 2-minute head start on res. 2nd hives seemed to be going up much earlier.
I'd imagine that marine would be unwilling to venture out and scout too much because for fear that they'd give the enemies res.
Personally I'm binding a key to 'kill' so the enemy won't get res when I'm about to die. Of course this is balanced becaused I might guess wrong. Maybe i COULD'VE knifed that skulk to death and continue my mission.
OH yeah, and the new handicap means that one team will do less DAMAGE! so a handicap of .7 means that that team only does 70% of normal damage. I predict that a handicap will affecte marines SO much more than it will affect aliens.
1) well first off I think the new elec boost has gone wayyy too far…. Coordinated groups were taking a elec node/tf down easily???
Ummm this is a good thing ain’t it? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess I pictured that a lone marine guard + a elec node would make 2 or even 4 skulks consider not just rushing in……I pictured more of a deterent in this sense……but that new boost seems like a big killer
2) marines getting res….well……. this is good for balance from what I’ve been reading from the PTs and vets on the beta board (marines teching too slow, etc) but I think it punishes ramboing aliens too much……
in the current 1.1 system a Rambo marine who dies a lot is punished (aliens get res) which is as it should be…….but imo the other way around discourages what I thought was the way aliens were supposed to behave…………..
I like Dread’s idea of making alien structure deaths giving marines res and it would make a bit more sense story wise……perhaps when the aliens lose a struct the hivemind/bacteria becomes confused/hurt/in pain/etc/whatever for a split second and in that instant the nano-deadlock is in marines’ favor until the bacteria regains its composure (aka marines get a small res boost when a alien struct ‘splodes into itty bits)
Most structs are taken out through teamwork (ok so that’s not nearly true…..but usually more teamwork goes into structure deastruction then 1 lone Rambo mowing down 4 skulks in a hallway ……which happens QUITE often enough now, and him getting res for it during 1.1 would just add insult to injury....wheres meh' teamwerk'! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> )
A perhaps easier and better way to solve the current marine res problem is making their res nodes more efficient? (but not by much?)
Well just my 2 lmg bullets…….err cents
oh and meat.....plz don't start a console-kill epidemic....I'm sure it will be bad enough without one more person doin' it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
..........sheesh I can't wait to see everyone type kill in console every time they are gonna die to an alien LMAO
why are u turning it into cs.
encouraging rambos to kill for res even though they may not understand that they arn`nt the ones getting it, and why does he keep trying to make electrified buildings invincible untill thye get more hives and onos?
but the HA spore thing is nice, and the onos abilitys order.
my 2 cents..
All this rushing skulks has just been the way people want the skulk to be, not how it was intended<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If skulks are supposed to be just stealth/scouts and not the stealth/kamikaze/scout combination they are at the moment, where does xenocide fit in the picture? Skulks having both parasite and xenocide makes me think that the kamikaze nature of the beast was intended.
Just some thoughts
beefing up the res node and giving res for marine kills, could that swing it a little too far ?
marine res for kill may give SC and DC a boost in the ratings as both increase skulk life expectancy - even if the idea is a little implausible <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I doubt this would encourage ramboing - res goes to the pool anyway and the spawn umbra should prevent spawnkilling for res. (BTW do u get res for killing buildings/chambers ?)
the tougher res nodes - well node have always been to easy to take down in smaller games (ie where no marines can be spared in their defense) so this should help - but in 8v8 + games nodes could be really tough to take down for any decent length of time (though the 2 min delay my help).
on a last thought my favuorite tactic of hidin behind res nodes and thoroughly annoying the marines wont work anymore <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway it all sounds good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
my 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I was complaining about balance, you'd have a right to say "Hey you ever play 1.1?" but I'm not complaining about balance, what I am looking at is fundamental gameplay dynamics and concept. Teamwork should be rewarded. Alien individuality and teamwork should be equally viable. A resource economy that may be balanced but is too easily dominated.
I think the res thing is fine. They are going to have bigger and better aliens attack the damn nodes, because they dont need any amount of hives now to get a different species. There are going to be a lot less skulks, and a lot more fades on the field as a result of this, ya know, so the res nodes will be equally defenseless, and I see this as a MAJOR balance. No longer can ONE pesky skulk take out a res node, that READILY AVALABLE fade can do it instead. The skulk will still readily attack the main, and anything else because it is so darn good at close combat and speed/with such.
The gas mask is fine, because I dont want these damn spores to be all over the field once heavies come in. Maybe the fades will come in and battle them instead, not just have cowardly tatics of spore cloud, umbra, shoot their ****.
I think these new additions will have a lot more open combat added to the game, for example...
1.) Two fades are attacking a res node, and four marines are called in to assist. This would result in a huge battle between fades and marines in this senario...
2.) Six heavies (Full upgrades, for say) are marching down the hallway to destroy the aliens long lasted second hive. The nearest two onoses respond to the attack spotted by a vent dweling skulk, and rush to the area of the oncomming flank. A huge battle would ensue, and probably would result in either side winning, depending on the play ablity. WHAT I DO NOT WANT IS A LERK FLYING OVER MY DAMN HEAD AND GASSING CONSTANTLY, which is a BALANCING ISSUE!! Hence, it has been fixed, and this wont effect the heavies at ALL. The heavier aliens should take on the bigger guys, do you see where I'm going with this?
I think all the balancing issues have been great, and the NS team is doing a swell job.
Plus I don't think the game should encourage aliens to 'stay alive'. Its kinda like the borg, aliens are. They may send 300 borg and have 150 die but once they take over the planet they got enough people to make about 6 billion more borg. I.E. nothing is more important then the hive.
Another downfall is the kill command. I know ill be using it to prevent marines frmo getting res.
He could do the letters he missed (o, and some others I forgot). See the topic titled 'Where the Hell is 1.1o?'.
my 2 cents.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
Alien node - 10 res
Elec'd Marine Node - 40 res
Thats why.
actually, its 15 in the patch today
so its 35 for an elec'd node.
but if the res nodes are now very tricky to kill by skulks, (tfs are too?) then they'll probably gain the marine teams loads of res through skulks trying to eat them and dying, which seems a touch harsh on the aliens.