I have to say, of all the posts I've read in the last 48 hours, (atleast) that, and the one before it were by far the most coherent, truthful, and all around best! You have a much better way with words, and a "feel" for NS than most (including me) have. Nice.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twisted Master+Jun 4 2003, 11:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twisted Master @ Jun 4 2003, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In very simple terms, eventually, everyone pubbing COULD play as good as clanner and clanners will also pub. Therefore, gameplay must be balanced in clan play FIRST because they use the hardcore tactics required to win win win, while pubbers most often do not. If Flayra balances the game for clan play without giving either side an advantage he will be happy. If the game is balanced in clan play but not public he won't be AS happy but still might release it, based on the simple facts I stated above. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This in response to Twisted's reply, even though it's on another page now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree with the idea that 1.1 should be balanced by clan playtesting. If only because you'll never have a suitable environment on just about any public server to properly balance the game. There are far too many public strategies to even begin thinking about trying to balance them. Let's face it: anyone who downloads a mod is going to want to play first without bothering to RTFM. I run a public server, and that's all I ever play on. We constantly receive in new waves of players who always ask what could have been learned in the FAQ: "how do I buy a better gun?" Or the wonderful times when NSPlayer evolves to gorge and runs into marine spawn, trying to spit on everyone. This defines public games. You can't possibly attempt to balance for that. Maybe in a year or two when NS is what CS is today, you can talk about having public servers with a real minority of true newbies.
That said, I also believe that you cannot purely rely on clan strategies to balance a game. In 1.04 there is a dichotomy between clanners and pubbers. Public servers are dominated by aliens. Clan servers (apparently) are dominated by marines. I have seen a batch of clanners come to my pub server, all join the marine team, and then quickly and utterly decimate the alien side. This <b>rarely</b> happens with purely public players as marines. It is most often the other way around as an alien victory. Since the autohelp tells newbie players to go marine if they don't know what they're doing, that's exactly what you get: a marine team laced with newbie players. That practically assures an alien victory, and is exactly why I'd say that 75% of all matches end as such on my server (varies based on map, of course.) Even with a clan or very competent public commander, a marine team with 50% newbie/newer players is going to be a Kharaa victory. This is the "newbie factor."
So it seems there is a difficult conflict here. And I do not envy Flay and crew who are trying to come up with a balance that will appease both clanners and pubbers. In fact, I don't think they will be able to do it with one set of parameters. What is balanced for clan matches will most assuredly not be balanced for public matches. Who knows what will really happen, but I think if marines are becoming weaker and the Kharaa stronger with 1.1, it could spell doom for public marines. They may only win 10% of the time and will die more frequently, which is not fun... especially for all those newbies that may decide not to come back.
Clanners probably won't see it this way, and will most likely say "you'll just have to adapt," but that isn't going to happen on public servers with newbie players. Newbie players are not able to adapt until the point they're no longer considered newbies (all the while, they keep losing.) "Ignore the newbie factor and balance for clanners" is not a good solution, since we all know you need new players to grow a mod and keep it going. Meaning, you can't have newbies losing all the time as marines until they learn to adapt, because they just won't ever get there. A true enigma, to say the least.
What I think is required is two sets of paramters. By parameters I mean damage levels, armor levels, firing cones, resource requirements, energy levels, etc. No changes to abilities or functionality. Just some numbers that can be tweaked easily at the <b>server</b> level. IE, on public servers you have the numbers tweaked to be more favorable to marines. On clan servers you have the numbers tweaked to be more favorable to aliens. The difficulty with this is A) finding the "right" numbers for a public server and B) creating a system by which the NS devs can easily control them. To point A, see above paragraphs on the difficulty in trying to playtest and tweak for public games. To point B, I imagine the dev team wants to ensure the same gameplay across all servers (even though there is no way to stop the loads of metamod plugins out there that try to invent their own game) and so would need a way to provide tweaked numbers without having to release new server-side versions over and over again. You shouldn't turn the numbers over to a text file and allow server admins to tweak at their leisure. I have some ideas for how you can control it, but I'm sure Flay has enough on his plate already <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And on the topic of long games = bad, I love longer games. But it's usually because of the amount of intense fighting a long game involves, and the fact that it takes a long time to get 3 hives with Onos, all marine upgrades, etc. After all, the action is what you really remember and love about long games... you don't love the fact that it's long. If shorter games merely means the same amount of action just compressed into a shorter timeframe, then I'm all for it. I'd like to see enough time on every map to have players switch sides, <b>and</b> have both games completely memorable.
If any given area of the map has not changed hands in, say, the past 15 minutes, then the game is dragging on unnecessarily IMHO. I don't have anything against long games, but stalemates I can't stand.
I love long games. only when balances or losing. draggin out a win is boring.
How many of you can say you had 0 hives for about ten minutes while fighting off HAs and Jps then cause a massive diversion and build a new hive. I can. That was tough. We only had three live players by the time hive went up.
Wow, you all have such exciting games... Well, my longest(and best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) game ever was on tanith. After a long time, aliens crushed us, and we had to relocate to our one remaining hive, which was waste. I was comm, and put up at least 20-30 turrets at the entrance, and wiped out al the fades that came along. Eventually it was won by the aliens, a cheating alien went into the welded vents as fade and acid rocketed our whole base, but the 1 adn a half hour game was still fun, marines constantly trying to push out and take another hive, aliens trying to push in. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> and heres a [picture of my beautiful turrets(NOTE: that area to the right where it is empty is completelty fileld with turrets later on)(why the hell did i have 2 phase gates? :|)
I love it when it goes back and forth. Long games where it's just one team dominating is boring, but anything else rules <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I had a 3 hour game that was the best and longest game ever. I was on the marines as commander and we started out well we had processing and feed but decided to hold off on taking engine room so as to give the aliens a chance we also decided to go with HA instead of jp/hmging the hives down. Anyway the aliens got their 2 hives up and a battle began raging as the HA marines tried to push into refinery against some brilliant aliens who used their fades with web/umbra support to stall the HAs and actually push them back down the tram tunnel towards feedwater. About this time some of the fades broke off and went for the marine base which in turn ment HAs had to come back to base to get rid of them.
About this time I decided that we were gonna lose unless we could regain the iniciative so I sent a couple of jp/hmgers to refinery to kill the hive where they got killed before they even got in <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> things were looking bad....feedwater was under attack and about to fall so we rather sneakily put a TF with 2 sieges and 1 sentry above the hive in that small spawn space and hoped the aliens wouldn't notice. Feed then fell and shortly afterwards so did atmos. Some of the marines said GG and decided to leave.
We fell back into our base but unknown to the aliens we had our ace in the hole to keep feedwater down but it didn't stop them from hitting marine start and destroying the base....but not before 2 jp/hmgers killed engine room, cleared it out and put the CC and ips up <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. We were now in the strongest position of the game we had 2 hives all our upgrades and the aliens no longer had umbra or webs. We stayed in engine room for a while saving up the res on 1 node for an assaut on refinery with HA, about the time I going to start giving out HA I realised that the TF covering feed was gone and the hive was going up.
I sent the whole team out in HA/HMGS and one HA/GL to refinery where they were able to push into the hive quite quickly because the aliens were lacking any umbra/webs. The aliens got their second hive up again just as the marines began shhoting at the hive, a lerk sat on the hive umbring but it was in vain as the marine with the GL was shooting the hive. Refinery went down then the HAs moved on to feed where the reamining fades put up a valiant fight but couldn't stop the marines winning.
Overall it was a class game enjoyed by both teams, I think only 4 people including myself were there for the whole 3 hours this game took one person even left when the marines were on the verge of losing only to come back an hour later to find the same game still going which was quite funny <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The best game I ever played was about 4 hours in length. It was of absolutely epic proportions. I was on the alien team and, over the course of the game, we went from 2 hives, to no hives, to 3 hives, then won, with the marines and aliens see-sawing the entire time. These long games are the reason I fell in love with NS in the first place.
On the topic of pub servers - the idea that you would not play to win is a little foreign to me. The only time that we ever play not seriously on my server is when there is 3-5 people playing and really not enough to get a good game going.. but then again, the server I play on has quite high standards of play as compared to other servers I have played. Occasionally I have joined other servers and, dissapointed by the level of play (majority fairly new players), I have gone back to the better server. IMO, NS is a lot more fun when playing with experienced players who are playing to win and out-countering each other. The long, more involved games are the essence of NS.
I think about 40 minutes is a good game for me, as long as we're doing stuff not just sitting around doing nothing. Anything longer than about an hour seems a bit stale to me, and anything less than 20 mins, well, it must have been pretty one-sided from the start, although there have been exceptions.
What I love is a good turnaround, though. Last night I was playing as marines (NOT 'RINES, MARINES ****) and we relocated to the keyhole in ns_eclipse. The aliens started with eclipse hive, and we were denying them CC, but in the end a skulk ran straight past us and waited in maintenance... and waited until he gorged and finally put up the hive right under our noses... We lost, but it was a great game.
I'd make an obscene referance to 15-minute games by quoting Rodney Rude, but I'd like to stay on the good side of the moderators <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I must say that I agree with Wizard just about all the way. While I'm for winning, what I see becoming of the game is who ever is the best fps player and can exploit the engine the most. Thats just not fun. Plain and simple. I truely wish CAL would elimanate the allowing of exploits in Clan play, I think it would make the game better in the long run as people would just get used to not having them and it would go back to who can think the most, and shoot well. Being the best with a twitchy finger isn't what should make this game great, nor should who can exploit the most bugs. It shouldn't be run by clanners.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fantasmo+Jun 4 2003, 01:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Jun 4 2003, 01:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It ain't about length, it's about <b>QUALITY</b>. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would agree.
I have played a few games where it was a stalemate for awhile and nothing changed and I got really bored of the game and just left. However I have played some games that were very long and still fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--ThinG+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThinG)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I had a game of 2 hours and 45 mins yesterday, it started as a 1 on 1 lerk vs jetpack dogfight, and as ppl came and went, the whole thing took us that long to finish. Why?
IT was NS_rampage, and we relocated to the Vent room near pumping, the aliens weren't able to punch through, and neither were we. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe I was in that game too, I came in when the timeleft was about -70 minutes <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Yeah, I agree, games like those really suck, but that long games can still be fun. I don't dislike short games either, as long as it isn't a jp-rush or something like that. I really like the idea in 1.1, to put all the action in a long 1.0x game in to a smaller timeframe.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with clan games or clans in general. Like I have said before, clans are <i>supposed</i> to play to win. What I <i>don't</i> like is when clan people join a pub game and start harassing the 'n00bs'. Things like that really get on my nerves. Don't try and tell me that clanners don't jump into games and start forcing strategies. Ever been in a pub game where two or three clanners do <u>nothing</u> but moan, gripe, complain, and whine for JP/HMG? I have. About once a day, if not more often. Afterwards they complain, even if the marines win. "GG, but we would've won earlier if the **** comm had dropped JP/HMG" Arg. While I'm not saying all you clan people out there are like that, I've encountered more than my fair share of the arrogant ones.
Like I've been trying to say: it's all well and good to have such an intensely competetive mindset for clan games, but don't bring it into the pubs. We aren't the ruthless fanatics you are, we just play the game. If you want proof that playtesting with only the best players is bad, just go and pick up just about any NES cart, or even better, Rogue Squadron for N64. If you only listen to what the people who play the game non-stop say should be difficulty and skill levels, then you'll end up with a learning curve so steep new players will fall right off. As a message out to the devs, I realize that clan play is the best way to test changes to a game, but please try to keep us casual players in mind. Not everyone is going to play for six hours a day, refining strategies, practicing counters, and building up skill for that next scrim.
Not enough understanding and not enough experience make Twisted cry.
I will try ONE more time to get through to those people who do NOT understand. You may not have 3 hours a day to play NS. You may not have 1 hour a day to play NS. You might only play NS for 5 minutes a day. But without m4d ub3r tactics or any strategic planning, like it or not, you will almost certainly LEARN SOMETHING. When you learn something, you get better. If you learned a way to move your mouse more effectively or set your configurations so that they were more comfortable for you and thus made you kill more aliens, why would you NOT use it??? WHYYYYY?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> The answer is you WOULD use it. What your asking for will NEVER happen. You're asking for people to choose before they even start playing NS whether they will play "clan/veteran" style or "pub/newbie" style. You're asking that clanners NEVER EVER join a pub server or give away their ""elite" tactics" that win the game. People want to win games, that's the main reason people TRY at games. If you are not trying to win, you are NOT PLAYING A GAME. You are twidling your thumbs and wasting your time, and anyone else who might be on your team.
The fact that you group everyone together that pub is not very cool. I'm sorry to tell you, but I'm not in a clan and I am a ruthless fanatic as you so nicely called all clanners. I'd also like to tell you that all clanners are not as ruthless as I am. There are clans out there that play for "fun" i.e. they're playing their own "version" of the game. Just like you. Except what you're expecting, is that everyone out their adopt to YOUR made up rules. You think because you don't like how a tactic works, or a tactic you don't know how to use, or a tactic that ends the game too fast, it shouldn't be used and therefore you don't use it. And you're expecting everyone else to follow your ruleset.
So until you become Hive Overlord of the human race, I'm here to tell you, that's not how it works. Welcome to the world of individuality and personal choices. I will say again, and not quite as nice as the first time, if you don't like it, Amazon.com has a bunch of books on C++, Networking, Making games (yes, there are books dedicated to making games, Graphics, 3D-Models, Marketting and anything else you will need to create your envisioned version of this game.
And I say this all in the nicest way possible <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. From the first part of your post, it sounds like you just don't like clans in general or may have had a bad experience with a couple people. Don't be so quick to judge and generalize people, that's how all our freaking wars started in the first place <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm sorry if that last post came out a little harsh, but yesterday was a bad experience in general for me clan-wise. While I realize it may be difficult for you all, could you at least tone it down a little when you're playing on Pubs? I know when I play games against my younger brother/sister I don't play 100% full-out win-mode. I'll go a little easier on them. At least give them a chance while giving me my own challenge as well. After all, anyone can win if they are simply better, but it takes finesse to win playing closer to their level. It's not that hard, but you're the ones who would have to give in such a situation. Not everyone can 'stand up or step down' to your level of gameplay.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Except what you're expecting, is that everyone out their adopt to YOUR made up rules. You think because you don't like how a tactic works, or a tactic you don't know how to use, or a tactic that ends the game too fast, it shouldn't be used and therefore you don't use it. And you're expecting everyone else to follow your ruleset.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said in my previous post, the mirror is true of a lot of clanners. They expect everyone to play by their game-winning rules. If someone has a less viable tactic, a tactic they haven't tried before, or a tactic that doesn't end the game in 15 minutes, it shouldn't be used and therefore they complain whenever someone else ues it. They expect everyone else to follow their mindset.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will say again, and not quite as nice as the first time, if you don't like it, Amazon.com has a bunch of books on C++, Networking, Making games (yes, there are books dedicated to making games, Graphics, 3D-Models, Marketting and anything else you will need to create your envisioned version of this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've been working on that part for about three years, thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. From the first part of your post, it sounds like you just don't like clans in general or may have had a bad experience with a couple people. Don't be so quick to judge and generalize people, that's how all our freaking wars started in the first place <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Around the end of the first paragraph: "While I'm not saying all you clan people out there are like that, I've encountered more than my fair share of the arrogant ones." I know that not every clan is filled with pompous, better-than-you gamers, but I've also played my fair share of Half-Life mods and other FPS games online. If such clans are not in a majority of those that exist, I'm sorry to say that the more relaxed fun ones simply don't exist in places where I can encounter them.
PS - Yes, I see your side of the issue perfectly well. The only problem is that you are so entrenched that you aren't willing to make any leeway for a single one of my points. While this is your choice, it's a little silly... so I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to help let you see that there <i>are</i> other opinions than your own, opinions that may be just as valid. Don't take it personally, I just like to argue the other side is all.
Longer games of NS are better, more fun. Short games are usually associated with one team just completely decimating the other team, and thats no fun for the losing team, and i dont find it fun even being on the winning team, because no one ended up getting a decent innings in. Locking down two hives and teching up for the hmg/ha rush is just so boring, as is an initial skulk rush that takes down the IP.
Well my other worry is that clan matches will remain just as stale and quick... I don't know if I will ever come to like clan matches from what I've seen so far, I've enjoyed a few scrims, but playing against people who just exploit everything they can, and rule because of their FPS skill makes it boring :-\
<!--QuoteBegin--Twisted Master+Jun 5 2003, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twisted Master @ Jun 5 2003, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People want to win games, that's the main reason people TRY at games. If you are not trying to win, you are NOT PLAYING A GAME. You are twidling your thumbs and wasting your time, and anyone else who might be on your team.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, everyone wants to win rather than lose. And yes, everyone probably <i>tries</i> to win. That said, this is a very social game seeing that you play with nothing but other human players requiring lots of teamwork. Winning in the fastest way possible as marines on a public server is going to lead to a lot of unhappy and p-ed off players (the losers.) They'll probably leave or F4 before the game is even over. No one enjoys that, and it's a hollow victory, at best. Most pubbers, having experienced this themselves at the hands of other people, do their best to avoid using that tactic. At least the ones I play with do.
The feeling I have in public servers is very simple. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." I enjoy games that last more than 5 minutes. I'm not playing <b>only</b> to win. I'm playing to have fun. Winning is more fun than losing, for sure, but I can still lose and have fun doing so. As long as the battle was well fought and we tried our best, that's all that really matters. I can try an HA vs Fade battle as commander and lose the game and still consider it a fun experience, even though I know a different way to win.
5-minute JP/HMG rushes are not fun, at all. I know <i>exactly</i> how to do them. I've been commander and done JP rushes against a group of clan members that had the previous round done it to us, only to show them how little fun it was. Not even they could prevent it, and they were used to it. Just because I know <b>how</b> to win quickly does not mean I'm going to use it to win. It's silly, pointless, and not the reason I'm playing. Why would I <i>not</i> use something that I've learned and know will probably win? Because <b>it's not fun for the other team.</b>
On pub servers, you play with and against your friends and acquaintances. Most pubbers go to the same servers over and over, because you make friendships and enjoy playing with these people. This is exactly what started clans in the first place back in the Quake1 Team Fortress days. Except in a pub situation, we don't <b>have</b> to play together and win at all costs to have fun. That is a big difference between pubbers and clanners. I like playing against friends and having a good battle. We'll joke and use weird tactics just to make it new and interesting. Victory isn't <i>always</i> the goal. Sometimes as Kharaa we'll build sensory first just to mix it up and have a different challenge. Clanners can't understand this because it's not in their manual for how to win quickly. I think this is what Red Wizard is trying to say.
I think that's the point that's trying to be made. And since it's my server, I dislike people who attempt nothing but constant JP/HMG rushes. This is most often a group of clanners out "pubbing." I will verbally assault these people. They can either abide by the "house rules" or they can find somewhere else to play. Above winning, I want to have fun. I play games to escape the stress of the real world and enjoy myself. It's a game, not a war. Constantly trying to win can be just as stressful as losing, since it's very difficult as marines on public servers. So just go in with the mindset to have fun, instead. I've learned this the hard way.
As a public server owner, I also try and spend time helping newbie players. I once spent 30 minutes teaching NSPlayer all about the game from the marine side. We only had 4 or 5 guys on, and I told the aliens to lighten up and not constantly attack, as we're "training a future 4-star general here." They understood, and agreed to go easy. And so they would come in and just try and parasite us to death, or healspray. They'd evolve to all of the classes so we could show NSPlayer what they looked like. He jumped into the comm chair and we taught him how to drop structures, what things to build first, how to set waypoints, how to drop health, the whole nine yards. I never even learned the guy's name. Why did we do this? Because it's good for the game. He asked for help, was nice about it, and I wanted to make sure I did everything possible to help ensure he'd come back and keep playing the mod. Sounds sappy and altruistic, but that's exactly what everyone on that public server did.
if its long...its good, because of reasons stated by red wizard already *me tips hat*. short games are for andrenaline pumping "oh ****, don't check a cornor or get lax a second before opening a door": bang, wasted by a camper in CS. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> happy happy joy joy. thats why i play both. oh teh fun!
Ah yes, I love long games, as long as they are not made long on purpose, and you people know who you are out there!
Anyways, I just love them. I remember I was commanding a game on ns_tanith and it was two hives, one locked down, with HA/HMG (Three upgrades armor and gunz) vs Fades with Defense and Movement. The game lasted one-hundered three minutes (Yes, I still remember it.). We had their final hive within siege range, only to be taken in one, foul (but nicly planned) rush on our main. Even though it had turrets (from previous intense pressure, I had placed them there eariler due to all my forces not avalable to guard the base) they still destroyed us.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> "Get into the phase!" I yelled... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> "Its down, the phase is down! We have to take another way around, we'll be right there commander!"
But alas...the heavies were too slow, and the aliens too fast. Our soliders were wiped out, one by one, and the game was over.
The only words that flashed on my screen were varations of these...
GG, Good game, GOOD GAME!!!!, GREAT GAME RINES!!!!, OMG THAT PWND! YOU ARE THE BEST DUDE I HAVE EVER SEEN! I LVE YOU! I THINK YOUR THE BEST, I LOVE YOU YOU SHOULD COMMAND ALL THE TIME! (Ok, so maybe the last comment wasnt that real, but...)
And the words that I most enjoyed...
"Its about time the rines didnt wimp out half way through the game when we had fades, nicly done marine commander!" (I huggled my screen at this moment, I've never done that good.
Once again...long games own, as long as they are unpurposly long, again you people that make them long on purpose, you know who you are.
(Plus, constant battles over Reactor Room were just adrenline pumping...that gave the game its greatest content, the constant switching of hands of the RR...best game eva!)
Cya all latarz, The 0range MarinE! <2> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Team nmbers unbalances Team skill unbalances. Tactical exploits. (3min jp rush, uncounterable) useless comms. (oops 4got the mines!, get back to spawn! Doh nevermind F4)
Yeah there loads of fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm very much enjoying some of these posts. They make me feel warm and suzzy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its all about the quality, if it goes back and forth for over an hour but the win is well deserved and well won, i find the game just as entertaining were it only 10-40 minutes
for me and most pub players I think the part that brings the most fun is that tasty see-sawing bit in the middle; the more it flips from one side to the other and back again the better ^^
The greatest game I enjoyed was... well... long, I lost track of time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> At one point the aliens were down to one hive and were on the verge of death when all of a sudden we magically got coordinated in one of the most devastating skulk rushes I've ever been in XD We shredded down 4 HA, a turret factory and pretty much the rest of their little minibase before team after team of HA came in from a nearby phasegate and beat us back while suffering staggering losses. After that the guy who'd killed the most of them suddenly turned onos we pushed back and got 2 hives, then 3 and by the end of the marines were locked up and died. But it was that moment where the tide suddenly turned that was so exhilarating and exciting <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the wind down with the aliens cornering the marines was the typical 'ho-hum' run of the mill slow base break but it had still been an amazing game =D
I believe that long games r fun, espically if u r the last surviving particapant.
I remeber when I was playing ns_tanith <i><span style='color:red'>I Think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> </span></i> where Station Access is, the little vent leading to the room in between the exit of the vent on the other end, weilded the Station access side shut & had turrets built in the little room, as there was no way out, I had to survive on me own. <i><span style='color:red'>Of course been stupid idiots like sum, people on my team start leaving</span></i> But before that I lasted 5 minutes before they won due to less & less players on my team <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is also ns_hera, man that was fun. Surviving with 2 team-mates where proccessing is, that is difficult to do I can say. Having <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> running through the window, <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> bile bombing from blow & <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> with Spore.<i><span style='color:red'>Y no <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> & <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> , cause they r stupid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> </span></i> but in all good fun they won because we where getting bored with a consistant barrage of n00bs coming to the slaughter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
well i've had some long games that rock with counter after counter strikes by each team.
The only thing that really P****** me off is the fact noobs and vet wannabies alike think RES whoring is good for a game, yeah 1 maybe but not all the team. That's what shorten the length of time of a game and screws the team over leaving a dissapointing esxcuse for a round.
Comments
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This in response to Twisted's reply, even though it's on another page now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree with the idea that 1.1 should be balanced by clan playtesting. If only because you'll never have a suitable environment on just about any public server to properly balance the game. There are far too many public strategies to even begin thinking about trying to balance them. Let's face it: anyone who downloads a mod is going to want to play first without bothering to RTFM. I run a public server, and that's all I ever play on. We constantly receive in new waves of players who always ask what could have been learned in the FAQ: "how do I buy a better gun?" Or the wonderful times when NSPlayer evolves to gorge and runs into marine spawn, trying to spit on everyone. This defines public games. You can't possibly attempt to balance for that. Maybe in a year or two when NS is what CS is today, you can talk about having public servers with a real minority of true newbies.
That said, I also believe that you cannot purely rely on clan strategies to balance a game. In 1.04 there is a dichotomy between clanners and pubbers. Public servers are dominated by aliens. Clan servers (apparently) are dominated by marines. I have seen a batch of clanners come to my pub server, all join the marine team, and then quickly and utterly decimate the alien side. This <b>rarely</b> happens with purely public players as marines. It is most often the other way around as an alien victory. Since the autohelp tells newbie players to go marine if they don't know what they're doing, that's exactly what you get: a marine team laced with newbie players. That practically assures an alien victory, and is exactly why I'd say that 75% of all matches end as such on my server (varies based on map, of course.) Even with a clan or very competent public commander, a marine team with 50% newbie/newer players is going to be a Kharaa victory. This is the "newbie factor."
So it seems there is a difficult conflict here. And I do not envy Flay and crew who are trying to come up with a balance that will appease both clanners and pubbers. In fact, I don't think they will be able to do it with one set of parameters. What is balanced for clan matches will most assuredly not be balanced for public matches. Who knows what will really happen, but I think if marines are becoming weaker and the Kharaa stronger with 1.1, it could spell doom for public marines. They may only win 10% of the time and will die more frequently, which is not fun... especially for all those newbies that may decide not to come back.
Clanners probably won't see it this way, and will most likely say "you'll just have to adapt," but that isn't going to happen on public servers with newbie players. Newbie players are not able to adapt until the point they're no longer considered newbies (all the while, they keep losing.) "Ignore the newbie factor and balance for clanners" is not a good solution, since we all know you need new players to grow a mod and keep it going. Meaning, you can't have newbies losing all the time as marines until they learn to adapt, because they just won't ever get there. A true enigma, to say the least.
What I think is required is two sets of paramters. By parameters I mean damage levels, armor levels, firing cones, resource requirements, energy levels, etc. No changes to abilities or functionality. Just some numbers that can be tweaked easily at the <b>server</b> level. IE, on public servers you have the numbers tweaked to be more favorable to marines. On clan servers you have the numbers tweaked to be more favorable to aliens. The difficulty with this is A) finding the "right" numbers for a public server and B) creating a system by which the NS devs can easily control them. To point A, see above paragraphs on the difficulty in trying to playtest and tweak for public games. To point B, I imagine the dev team wants to ensure the same gameplay across all servers (even though there is no way to stop the loads of metamod plugins out there that try to invent their own game) and so would need a way to provide tweaked numbers without having to release new server-side versions over and over again. You shouldn't turn the numbers over to a text file and allow server admins to tweak at their leisure. I have some ideas for how you can control it, but I'm sure Flay has enough on his plate already <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And on the topic of long games = bad, I love longer games. But it's usually because of the amount of intense fighting a long game involves, and the fact that it takes a long time to get 3 hives with Onos, all marine upgrades, etc. After all, the action is what you really remember and love about long games... you don't love the fact that it's long. If shorter games merely means the same amount of action just compressed into a shorter timeframe, then I'm all for it. I'd like to see enough time on every map to have players switch sides, <b>and</b> have both games completely memorable.
I love long games. only when balances or losing. draggin out a win is boring.
How many of you can say you had 0 hives for about ten minutes while fighting off HAs and Jps then cause a massive diversion and build a new hive. I can. That was tough. We only had three live players by the time hive went up.
About this time I decided that we were gonna lose unless we could regain the iniciative so I sent a couple of jp/hmgers to refinery to kill the hive where they got killed before they even got in <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> things were looking bad....feedwater was under attack and about to fall so we rather sneakily put a TF with 2 sieges and 1 sentry above the hive in that small spawn space and hoped the aliens wouldn't notice. Feed then fell and shortly afterwards so did atmos. Some of the marines said GG and decided to leave.
We fell back into our base but unknown to the aliens we had our ace in the hole to keep feedwater down but it didn't stop them from hitting marine start and destroying the base....but not before 2 jp/hmgers killed engine room, cleared it out and put the CC and ips up <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. We were now in the strongest position of the game we had 2 hives all our upgrades and the aliens no longer had umbra or webs. We stayed in engine room for a while saving up the res on 1 node for an assaut on refinery with HA, about the time I going to start giving out HA I realised that the TF covering feed was gone and the hive was going up.
I sent the whole team out in HA/HMGS and one HA/GL to refinery where they were able to push into the hive quite quickly because the aliens were lacking any umbra/webs. The aliens got their second hive up again just as the marines began shhoting at the hive, a lerk sat on the hive umbring but it was in vain as the marine with the GL was shooting the hive. Refinery went down then the HAs moved on to feed where the reamining fades put up a valiant fight but couldn't stop the marines winning.
Overall it was a class game enjoyed by both teams, I think only 4 people including myself were there for the whole 3 hours this game took one person even left when the marines were on the verge of losing only to come back an hour later to find the same game still going which was quite funny <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
These long games are the reason I fell in love with NS in the first place.
On the topic of pub servers - the idea that you would not play to win is a little foreign to me. The only time that we ever play not seriously on my server is when there is 3-5 people playing and really not enough to get a good game going.. but then again, the server I play on has quite high standards of play as compared to other servers I have played. Occasionally I have joined other servers and, dissapointed by the level of play (majority fairly new players), I have gone back to the better server. IMO, NS is a lot more fun when playing with experienced players who are playing to win and out-countering each other.
The long, more involved games are the essence of NS.
I hate the long games with no purpose. One team gets backed into a corner 15 minutes into the game and takes another hour to finally kill them all.
I wish I said it myself, Quality over quantity.
What I love is a good turnaround, though. Last night I was playing as marines (NOT 'RINES, MARINES ****) and we relocated to the keyhole in ns_eclipse. The aliens started with eclipse hive, and we were denying them CC, but in the end a skulk ran straight past us and waited in maintenance... and waited until he gorged and finally put up the hive right under our noses... We lost, but it was a great game.
I'd make an obscene referance to 15-minute games by quoting Rodney Rude, but I'd like to stay on the good side of the moderators <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would agree.
I have played a few games where it was a stalemate for awhile and nothing changed and I got really bored of the game and just left. However I have played some games that were very long and still fun.
I had a game of 2 hours and 45 mins yesterday, it started as a 1 on 1 lerk vs jetpack dogfight, and as ppl came and went, the whole thing took us that long to finish. Why?
IT was NS_rampage, and we relocated to the Vent room near pumping, the aliens weren't able to punch through, and neither were we.
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I believe I was in that game too, I came in when the timeleft was about -70 minutes <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, I agree, games like those really suck, but that long games can still be fun.
I don't dislike short games either, as long as it isn't a jp-rush or something like that.
I really like the idea in 1.1, to put all the action in a long 1.0x game in to a smaller timeframe.
Like I've been trying to say: it's all well and good to have such an intensely competetive mindset for clan games, but don't bring it into the pubs. We aren't the ruthless fanatics you are, we just play the game. If you want proof that playtesting with only the best players is bad, just go and pick up just about any NES cart, or even better, Rogue Squadron for N64. If you only listen to what the people who play the game non-stop say should be difficulty and skill levels, then you'll end up with a learning curve so steep new players will fall right off. As a message out to the devs, I realize that clan play is the best way to test changes to a game, but please try to keep us casual players in mind. Not everyone is going to play for six hours a day, refining strategies, practicing counters, and building up skill for that next scrim.
Not enough understanding and not enough experience make Twisted cry.
I will try ONE more time to get through to those people who do NOT understand. You may not have 3 hours a day to play NS. You may not have 1 hour a day to play NS. You might only play NS for 5 minutes a day. But without m4d ub3r tactics or any strategic planning, like it or not, you will almost certainly LEARN SOMETHING. When you learn something, you get better. If you learned a way to move your mouse more effectively or set your configurations so that they were more comfortable for you and thus made you kill more aliens, why would you NOT use it??? WHYYYYY?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> The answer is you WOULD use it. What your asking for will NEVER happen. You're asking for people to choose before they even start playing NS whether they will play "clan/veteran" style or "pub/newbie" style. You're asking that clanners NEVER EVER join a pub server or give away their ""elite" tactics" that win the game. People want to win games, that's the main reason people TRY at games. If you are not trying to win, you are NOT PLAYING A GAME. You are twidling your thumbs and wasting your time, and anyone else who might be on your team.
The fact that you group everyone together that pub is not very cool. I'm sorry to tell you, but I'm not in a clan and I am a ruthless fanatic as you so nicely called all clanners. I'd also like to tell you that all clanners are not as ruthless as I am. There are clans out there that play for "fun" i.e. they're playing their own "version" of the game. Just like you. Except what you're expecting, is that everyone out their adopt to YOUR made up rules. You think because you don't like how a tactic works, or a tactic you don't know how to use, or a tactic that ends the game too fast, it shouldn't be used and therefore you don't use it. And you're expecting everyone else to follow your ruleset.
So until you become Hive Overlord of the human race, I'm here to tell you, that's not how it works. Welcome to the world of individuality and personal choices. I will say again, and not quite as nice as the first time, if you don't like it, Amazon.com has a bunch of books on C++, Networking, Making games (yes, there are books dedicated to making games, Graphics, 3D-Models, Marketting and anything else you will need to create your envisioned version of this game.
And I say this all in the nicest way possible <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. From the first part of your post, it sounds like you just don't like clans in general or may have had a bad experience with a couple people. Don't be so quick to judge and generalize people, that's how all our freaking wars started in the first place <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Except what you're expecting, is that everyone out their adopt to YOUR made up rules. You think because you don't like how a tactic works, or a tactic you don't know how to use, or a tactic that ends the game too fast, it shouldn't be used and therefore you don't use it. And you're expecting everyone else to follow your ruleset.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said in my previous post, the mirror is true of a lot of clanners. They expect everyone to play by their game-winning rules. If someone has a less viable tactic, a tactic they haven't tried before, or a tactic that doesn't end the game in 15 minutes, it shouldn't be used and therefore they complain whenever someone else ues it. They expect everyone else to follow their mindset.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I will say again, and not quite as nice as the first time, if you don't like it, Amazon.com has a bunch of books on C++, Networking, Making games (yes, there are books dedicated to making games, Graphics, 3D-Models, Marketting and anything else you will need to create your envisioned version of this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've been working on that part for about three years, thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. From the first part of your post, it sounds like you just don't like clans in general or may have had a bad experience with a couple people. Don't be so quick to judge and generalize people, that's how all our freaking wars started in the first place <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Around the end of the first paragraph: "While I'm not saying all you clan people out there are like that, I've encountered more than my fair share of the arrogant ones." I know that not every clan is filled with pompous, better-than-you gamers, but I've also played my fair share of Half-Life mods and other FPS games online. If such clans are not in a majority of those that exist, I'm sorry to say that the more relaxed fun ones simply don't exist in places where I can encounter them.
PS - Yes, I see your side of the issue perfectly well. The only problem is that you are so entrenched that you aren't willing to make any leeway for a single one of my points. While this is your choice, it's a little silly... so I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to help let you see that there <i>are</i> other opinions than your own, opinions that may be just as valid. Don't take it personally, I just like to argue the other side is all.
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Yes, everyone wants to win rather than lose. And yes, everyone probably <i>tries</i> to win. That said, this is a very social game seeing that you play with nothing but other human players requiring lots of teamwork. Winning in the fastest way possible as marines on a public server is going to lead to a lot of unhappy and p-ed off players (the losers.) They'll probably leave or F4 before the game is even over. No one enjoys that, and it's a hollow victory, at best. Most pubbers, having experienced this themselves at the hands of other people, do their best to avoid using that tactic. At least the ones I play with do.
The feeling I have in public servers is very simple. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." I enjoy games that last more than 5 minutes. I'm not playing <b>only</b> to win. I'm playing to have fun. Winning is more fun than losing, for sure, but I can still lose and have fun doing so. As long as the battle was well fought and we tried our best, that's all that really matters. I can try an HA vs Fade battle as commander and lose the game and still consider it a fun experience, even though I know a different way to win.
5-minute JP/HMG rushes are not fun, at all. I know <i>exactly</i> how to do them. I've been commander and done JP rushes against a group of clan members that had the previous round done it to us, only to show them how little fun it was. Not even they could prevent it, and they were used to it. Just because I know <b>how</b> to win quickly does not mean I'm going to use it to win. It's silly, pointless, and not the reason I'm playing. Why would I <i>not</i> use something that I've learned and know will probably win? Because <b>it's not fun for the other team.</b>
On pub servers, you play with and against your friends and acquaintances. Most pubbers go to the same servers over and over, because you make friendships and enjoy playing with these people. This is exactly what started clans in the first place back in the Quake1 Team Fortress days. Except in a pub situation, we don't <b>have</b> to play together and win at all costs to have fun. That is a big difference between pubbers and clanners. I like playing against friends and having a good battle. We'll joke and use weird tactics just to make it new and interesting. Victory isn't <i>always</i> the goal. Sometimes as Kharaa we'll build sensory first just to mix it up and have a different challenge. Clanners can't understand this because it's not in their manual for how to win quickly. I think this is what Red Wizard is trying to say.
I think that's the point that's trying to be made. And since it's my server, I dislike people who attempt nothing but constant JP/HMG rushes. This is most often a group of clanners out "pubbing." I will verbally assault these people. They can either abide by the "house rules" or they can find somewhere else to play. Above winning, I want to have fun. I play games to escape the stress of the real world and enjoy myself. It's a game, not a war. Constantly trying to win can be just as stressful as losing, since it's very difficult as marines on public servers. So just go in with the mindset to have fun, instead. I've learned this the hard way.
As a public server owner, I also try and spend time helping newbie players. I once spent 30 minutes teaching NSPlayer all about the game from the marine side. We only had 4 or 5 guys on, and I told the aliens to lighten up and not constantly attack, as we're "training a future 4-star general here." They understood, and agreed to go easy. And so they would come in and just try and parasite us to death, or healspray. They'd evolve to all of the classes so we could show NSPlayer what they looked like. He jumped into the comm chair and we taught him how to drop structures, what things to build first, how to set waypoints, how to drop health, the whole nine yards. I never even learned the guy's name. Why did we do this? Because it's good for the game. He asked for help, was nice about it, and I wanted to make sure I did everything possible to help ensure he'd come back and keep playing the mod. Sounds sappy and altruistic, but that's exactly what everyone on that public server did.
Anyways, I just love them. I remember I was commanding a game on ns_tanith and it was two hives, one locked down, with HA/HMG (Three upgrades armor and gunz) vs Fades with Defense and Movement. The game lasted one-hundered three minutes (Yes, I still remember it.). We had their final hive within siege range, only to be taken in one, foul (but nicly planned) rush on our main. Even though it had turrets (from previous intense pressure, I had placed them there eariler due to all my forces not avalable to guard the base) they still destroyed us.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> "Get into the phase!" I yelled... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> "Its down, the phase is down! We have to take another way around, we'll be right there commander!"
But alas...the heavies were too slow, and the aliens too fast. Our soliders were wiped out, one by one, and the game was over.
The only words that flashed on my screen were varations of these...
GG, Good game, GOOD GAME!!!!, GREAT GAME RINES!!!!, OMG THAT PWND! YOU ARE THE BEST DUDE I HAVE EVER SEEN! I LVE YOU! I THINK YOUR THE BEST, I LOVE YOU YOU SHOULD COMMAND ALL THE TIME! (Ok, so maybe the last comment wasnt that real, but...)
And the words that I most enjoyed...
"Its about time the rines didnt wimp out half way through the game when we had fades, nicly done marine commander!" (I huggled my screen at this moment, I've never done that good.
Once again...long games own, as long as they are unpurposly long, again you people that make them long on purpose, you know who you are.
(Plus, constant battles over Reactor Room were just adrenline pumping...that gave the game its greatest content, the constant switching of hands of the RR...best game eva!)
Cya all latarz,
The 0range MarinE! <2> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Team nmbers unbalances
Team skill unbalances.
Tactical exploits. (3min jp rush, uncounterable)
useless comms. (oops 4got the mines!, get back to spawn! Doh nevermind F4)
Yeah there loads of fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The greatest game I enjoyed was... well... long, I lost track of time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
At one point the aliens were down to one hive and were on the verge of death when all of a sudden we magically got coordinated in one of the most devastating skulk rushes I've ever been in XD
We shredded down 4 HA, a turret factory and pretty much the rest of their little minibase before team after team of HA came in from a nearby phasegate and beat us back while suffering staggering losses. After that the guy who'd killed the most of them suddenly turned onos we pushed back and got 2 hives, then 3 and by the end of the marines were locked up and died. But it was that moment where the tide suddenly turned that was so exhilarating and exciting <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the wind down with the aliens cornering the marines was the typical 'ho-hum' run of the mill slow base break but it had still been an amazing game =D
I remeber when I was playing ns_tanith <i><span style='color:red'>I Think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> </span></i> where Station Access is, the little vent leading to the room in between the exit of the vent on the other end, weilded the Station access side shut & had turrets built in the little room, as there was no way out, I had to survive on me own. <i><span style='color:red'>Of course been stupid idiots like sum, people on my team start leaving</span></i> But before that I lasted 5 minutes before they won due to less & less players on my team <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is also ns_hera, man that was fun. Surviving with 2 team-mates where proccessing is, that is difficult to do I can say. Having <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> running through the window, <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> bile bombing from blow & <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> with Spore.<i><span style='color:red'>Y no <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> & <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> , cause they r stupid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> </span></i> but in all good fun they won because we where getting bored with a consistant barrage of n00bs coming to the slaughter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only thing that really P****** me off is the fact noobs and vet wannabies alike think RES whoring is good for a game, yeah 1 maybe but not all the team. That's what shorten the length of time of a game and screws the team over leaving a dissapointing esxcuse for a round.
zippy
Hehe. My opinion has not changed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->