I remember one time the aliens had 3 hives and the marines were getting hurt badly at our main. I sent a jetpacker through the vents to subspace and had them relocate (comm chair and IPs) inside the satcom hive while the aliens attacked our main. By the time the aliens had taken out our main, we had 1 res tower, a TF with a few turrets, and some IPs.
With all the marines respawned in the alien hive, we almost instantly took down the alien hive which turned out to be the D chamber hive! yay! From then on we turtled for at least an hour slowly tech upgrading and building a few structures. The aliens pounded us heavily but with lots of grenades and turrets we held em off. Finally, we HA/HMG rushed port and soon won the game.
That's the biggest comeback for marines I've ever played.
The biggest comeback for marines that I have seen was in a 6v6 wherin there were TWO people left on rines. Commander and ONE JP/HMG. They had one hive and two building. The JPer took out EVERYTHING, eliminating the D-Hive first, then assasinating the other two hives has they built.
Biggest comeback i've ever seen was a game where the 2 hive lock down strat had failed, and the comm had tech up ready to hold off the alien assault, however he didnt just hold it off he sent a ha train round the map secured main and cc, and then it was just a matter of clearning ec up.
I have never jp/hmg rushed and i never will. Its a boring, over used tactic.
I usually send two teams of marines to two different hives where the hold out until i can build an RT>PG>TF.
Then we just hold the hives until i can upgrade for heavy armor and jp's. I tend to choose HA over JP when playing with people i dont know, since giving noobs jp/hmg is like throwing money away.
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Jun 4 2003, 12:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Jun 4 2003, 12:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> flip: the word gayness isnt an adjective. And I dont see how limiting the aliens to 1 hive allows anyone to see "how the teams match up" with 3 RTs (one in each hive and one at marine start) you could simply tech up and win anyway, it'll just take 20 min instead of 4-5. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> just because i say 2hive lockdown is a good strategy doesnt mean i always achieve it. Getting the 2nd hive is always tough when your against a good alien team, however it isn't impossible. But thats my point, by doing this strategy you need good team players and teamwork for both teams. The game will be hanging in the balance of which team that will perform better. Hence the word teamplay. I've seen team of skulks come in and destroy the 2nd hive base easily or marines killing fades and retaking the 2nd hive. All im saying is this tactic will allow more of a team effort and and better gameplay than a "****" rush. Err...did I use the term correctly now? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--||SemperFi||+Jun 4 2003, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (||SemperFi|| @ Jun 4 2003, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have never jp/hmg rushed and i never will. Its a boring, over used tactic.
I usually send two teams of marines to two different hives where the hold out until i can build an RT>PG>TF.
Then we just hold the hives until i can upgrade for heavy armor and jp's. I tend to choose HA over JP when playing with people i dont know, since giving noobs jp/hmg is like throwing money away. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've got a question.. what server do you play on? b/c I want to play on it too... I hate the JP/HMG rush..... and I hate comms who do it... it IS over used.. and there are more enjoyable ways of winning... Plus, I need no skill to kill aliens... ya know?
2-hive lockdown can be boring, but a 1 hive lockdown, there's an interesting game! prevents onos *1.04*, AND it allows fades.... so it makes marined have to fight to kill the 2nd hive.... all in all the best games I've played had aliens in 2 hives, marines in MS and a hive.... that's the closest to matched I think u'll find them ever get...
I have to admit, I like hive-relocation (occasionally). It compresses the game space down to one place - the unclaimed hive. The marines end up so resource-starved that they can't tech up. The aliens have gobs of resources, but can't evolve without the second hive. The game pitches back and forth until one side manages to get a firm grip on the empty hive.
If it's the aliens, the game ends in five minutes. If it's the marines, the game ends in two hours. This last part sucks, but the first part of the game is Good Stuff.
2 hive lock down is relatively boring imho. Usally when I comm I quick tech to jp's and send about half the team around killing res nodes and capping them as I go. While they're doing this the 2nd hive is building I research HA and advanced armory. So we roll through their starting hive since oddly enough that's usally the weakest hive defense wise with a HA/HMG/GL/Welder Pain Train by this time they usally have 1-2 fades that managed to go fade before hive #2 went down. By this time we hit their last hive and we usally overcome them with relative ease. Thats if my marine team is competent :| If not I quick tech to jp's they get murdered I lose the proto while researching HA and I have a gorge building OC's on my IP's
But still better then a 2hive lockdown then a tech crawl because the marines are too incompetent to kill 1 hive aliens
I'd have to say, JP/HMG rush would have to result in the most boring game possible - it's repetitive, and almost impossible to defeat regardless of the skill of each team.
Problem being, of course, that it happens approximately 100% of the time.
It's just another easy win "strat" - the undefeatable marine plan. Two things have (on the servers easily available to me, and to everyone else by the sounds of things) vanished from this game - teamwork and tactics, neither of which are needed to win with a JP/HMG rush. ****, where I play (and probably everywhere else too), people are <i>scared</i> to be different - I've been payed out more than once for calling lovers the standard "strat" conformist, because guess what? Just as in everything else in society, <i>humans are conformists</i> - us "stupid radicals" being the exception. Given that so many people out there only care about winning when it comes to this game, and just about everything else, in the conformist psyche by which these people are encompassed, the standard strat is "the way you play", everything else being "stupid" and "****" because "it doesn't work"... when in reality, none of them would know if these tactics would work or not! Admittedly, this same attitude applies to those who think you have to use the standard alien chamber build, because "cara is the best" (despite providing a WHOPPING 20 ARMOUR at level 3 - their excuse is that the autohelp, which is wrong on several occasions, says level 3 carapace provides 60% more constitution when a) it probably doesn't and b) even if it does, it's 60% of not a whole damn lot). I call them CARA WHINGERS. That's different, though, in that using the standard alien chamber build doesn't set up the aliens for an automatic win.
So yes, the JP/HMG rush drains 100% of the fun from the game of NS, because people are too naive and stupid to realise that a) games played with cheap, conformist tactics are boring and pointless (not that they care, perhaps, about the quality of their peers' gaming experience) and b) that <i>you don't need to use them</i>.
I've always hated conformists, and so when they plague what would otherwise be a good game, I am really annoyed. Thus have I presented my unpopular - "stupid radical" - opinion. Any conformists who read this - say what you will, o scourge of cognition and creativity! Your opinion is not valued - because <i>it isn't your opinion</i>.
Thank you for actually reading this entire message.
<!--QuoteBegin--Freak83+Jun 3 2003, 10:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ Jun 3 2003, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I LOVE two hive lockdowns. As soon as I get them, I grab all the res I can get. Meanwhile I'm getting all upgrades and defending hives even more. The marines can relax because it's not some kind of major concern that the aliens have two hives... because they don't. I lay out weapons, jps, ha's, and stuff, and tell the marines to go have fun and tell me if they need anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What is so fun about a 2 hive lockdown where the marine team sits in their turtled hives with their thums up their **** waiting for lvl3 weapons adn armour and mauling through the one hive aliens after they spent 2 hour saving up on their 2 res nodes.
If ever you get that as aliens it is just so frustrating because even though aliens control everyother resnode in the map except for the two in the hives you will most probably eventually still lose. Although it happens less in 1.04 nowadays cos of the JP/HMG rush. I am really looking forward to 1.1 cos such thing wont happen.
There is one tactic that still can work for 2 hive lockdown. but if they have sieges it can turn ugly... GORGE RUSH!!!!!!!!111111oneoneoneone but i also hear a gorge lerk combo is also quite powerful.
but normally on servers i play on, we dont rush for JP, or get 2 hive lockdowns. We just have fun with lvl3 stock rines (maybe the odd hmg) vs fades etc. It is games like that where it actually has a mid game that is fun FOR BOTH TEAMS.
Greypaws, unless the aliens are deep in the brown stuff, I always build in a different order (sensory first with good players, movement with average) or I'll ask the gorge for movement first. I'll also flame the comm if he goes for the JP/HMG rush for a third time. Why? Because I like a little variation, not playing the game like it's a mathematical formula.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mintman+Jun 5 2003, 05:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mintman @ Jun 5 2003, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like a little variation, not playing the game like it's a mathematical formula. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That pretty much encompasses the most important points of my argument. "The way to play" is only appreciated by those who can't think for themselves, which is unfortunately common. The rest of us like a <i>little</i> (a good deal of) variety... even if that means using "stupid radical" strats.
Anyways, isn't succeeding with an unconventional strat fun? Obviously conformists can't answer this question, as they never play with unconventional strats, but defying convention like that really is quite satisfying... though the hardcore conformist simply refuses to see the light, saying that you won "thanks to a miracle". Those fools never learn! You could win fifty thousand **** games in a row with an unconventional tactic and it wouldn't be accepted... else it would become the conventional tactic, and the <i>old</i> "way to play" would become "stupid radical".
I don't mean to waste everyone's time by delving into the depths (?) of the conformist psyche, but the point is: what's the point of playing if you're going to do everything the same way over and over again? You don't learn anything, you don't get better at anything (except el cheapo JP/HMG rushes), and **** - <i>you don't have fun!</i> So why play at all?
IF you marine comms think that jp/hmg is a fun strat, and a good one, ask yourself what would happen if the skulks rushed your base every time, and the gorg put up lvl 3 cara first before res every time, that means less than 3 min into game you have 5-10 skulks /w lvl 3 cara in your base...
do you really want everyone to go for the quick and easy
<!--QuoteBegin--Macguyvok+Jun 4 2003, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Macguyvok @ Jun 4 2003, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then we just hold the hives until i can upgrade for heavy armor and jp's. I tend to choose HA over JP when playing with people i dont know, since giving noobs jp/hmg is like throwing money away. I've got a question.. what server do you play on? b/c I want to play on it too... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 207.200.24.214:27015 - Freaks Unleashed CD req
I play daily and comm almost every map i play, unless i join half way in or something.
Other tactics that get me flamed: Putting armory in the corner so marines cant hump it. This also prevents mass prasiting from putting it in the middle.
Upgrading motion tracking first instead of armor/weapons.
I dont tech rush, I do capture a hive because IT IS A MUST FOR ALL YOU COMMS (lol), and I've noticed when I comm that it's equally balanced for the Aliens and the Marines. I almost won one game a few weeks ago, but my marine team just got too crowded with idiots begging for jps and humping the armoy.
GOOD TATIC FOR COMMS IF MARINES ARE AMMO HUMPING: RECYCLE THE ARMORY!
Comments
With all the marines respawned in the alien hive, we almost instantly took down the alien hive which turned out to be the D chamber hive! yay! From then on we turtled for at least an hour slowly tech upgrading and building a few structures. The aliens pounded us heavily but with lots of grenades and turrets we held em off. Finally, we HA/HMG rushed port and soon won the game.
That's the biggest comeback for marines I've ever played.
I usually send two teams of marines to two different hives where the hold out until i can build an RT>PG>TF.
Then we just hold the hives until i can upgrade for heavy armor and jp's. I tend to choose HA over JP when playing with people i dont know, since giving noobs jp/hmg is like throwing money away.
just because i say 2hive lockdown is a good strategy doesnt mean i always achieve it. Getting the 2nd hive is always tough when your against a good alien team, however it isn't impossible. But thats my point, by doing this strategy you need good team players and teamwork for both teams. The game will be hanging in the balance of which team that will perform better. Hence the word teamplay. I've seen team of skulks come in and destroy the 2nd hive base easily or marines killing fades and retaking the 2nd hive. All im saying is this tactic will allow more of a team effort and and better gameplay than a "****" rush. Err...did I use the term correctly now? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
I usually send two teams of marines to two different hives where the hold out until i can build an RT>PG>TF.
Then we just hold the hives until i can upgrade for heavy armor and jp's. I tend to choose HA over JP when playing with people i dont know, since giving noobs jp/hmg is like throwing money away. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've got a question.. what server do you play on? b/c I want to play on it too... I hate the JP/HMG rush..... and I hate comms who do it... it IS over used.. and there are more enjoyable ways of winning... Plus, I need no skill to kill aliens... ya know?
2-hive lockdown can be boring, but a 1 hive lockdown, there's an interesting game! prevents onos *1.04*, AND it allows fades.... so it makes marined have to fight to kill the 2nd hive.... all in all the best games I've played had aliens in 2 hives, marines in MS and a hive.... that's the closest to matched I think u'll find them ever get...
If it's the aliens, the game ends in five minutes. If it's the marines, the game ends in two hours. This last part sucks, but the first part of the game is Good Stuff.
If not I quick tech to jp's they get murdered I lose the proto while researching HA and I have a gorge building OC's on my IP's
But still better then a 2hive lockdown then a tech crawl because the marines are too incompetent to kill 1 hive aliens
Problem being, of course, that it happens approximately 100% of the time.
It's just another easy win "strat" - the undefeatable marine plan. Two things have (on the servers easily available to me, and to everyone else by the sounds of things) vanished from this game - teamwork and tactics, neither of which are needed to win with a JP/HMG rush. ****, where I play (and probably everywhere else too), people are <i>scared</i> to be different - I've been payed out more than once for calling lovers the standard "strat" conformist, because guess what? Just as in everything else in society, <i>humans are conformists</i> - us "stupid radicals" being the exception. Given that so many people out there only care about winning when it comes to this game, and just about everything else, in the conformist psyche by which these people are encompassed, the standard strat is "the way you play", everything else being "stupid" and "****" because "it doesn't work"... when in reality, none of them would know if these tactics would work or not!
Admittedly, this same attitude applies to those who think you have to use the standard alien chamber build, because "cara is the best" (despite providing a WHOPPING 20 ARMOUR at level 3 - their excuse is that the autohelp, which is wrong on several occasions, says level 3 carapace provides 60% more constitution when a) it probably doesn't and b) even if it does, it's 60% of not a whole damn lot). I call them CARA WHINGERS. That's different, though, in that using the standard alien chamber build doesn't set up the aliens for an automatic win.
So yes, the JP/HMG rush drains 100% of the fun from the game of NS, because people are too naive and stupid to realise that a) games played with cheap, conformist tactics are boring and pointless (not that they care, perhaps, about the quality of their peers' gaming experience) and b) that <i>you don't need to use them</i>.
I've always hated conformists, and so when they plague what would otherwise be a good game, I am really annoyed. Thus have I presented my unpopular - "stupid radical" - opinion. Any conformists who read this - say what you will, o scourge of cognition and creativity! Your opinion is not valued - because <i>it isn't your opinion</i>.
Thank you for actually reading this entire message.
What is so fun about a 2 hive lockdown where the marine team sits in their turtled hives with their thums up their **** waiting for lvl3 weapons adn armour and mauling through the one hive aliens after they spent 2 hour saving up on their 2 res nodes.
If ever you get that as aliens it is just so frustrating because even though aliens control everyother resnode in the map except for the two in the hives you will most probably eventually still lose.
Although it happens less in 1.04 nowadays cos of the JP/HMG rush. I am really looking forward to 1.1 cos such thing wont happen.
There is one tactic that still can work for 2 hive lockdown. but if they have sieges it can turn ugly... GORGE RUSH!!!!!!!!111111oneoneoneone
but i also hear a gorge lerk combo is also quite powerful.
but normally on servers i play on, we dont rush for JP, or get 2 hive lockdowns. We just have fun with lvl3 stock rines (maybe the odd hmg) vs fades etc. It is games like that where it actually has a mid game that is fun FOR BOTH TEAMS.
That pretty much encompasses the most important points of my argument. "The way to play" is only appreciated by those who can't think for themselves, which is unfortunately common. The rest of us like a <i>little</i> (a good deal of) variety... even if that means using "stupid radical" strats.
Anyways, isn't succeeding with an unconventional strat fun? Obviously conformists can't answer this question, as they never play with unconventional strats, but defying convention like that really is quite satisfying... though the hardcore conformist simply refuses to see the light, saying that you won "thanks to a miracle". Those fools never learn! You could win fifty thousand **** games in a row with an unconventional tactic and it wouldn't be accepted... else it would become the conventional tactic, and the <i>old</i> "way to play" would become "stupid radical".
I don't mean to waste everyone's time by delving into the depths (?) of the conformist psyche, but the point is: what's the point of playing if you're going to do everything the same way over and over again? You don't learn anything, you don't get better at anything (except el cheapo JP/HMG rushes), and **** - <i>you don't have fun!</i> So why play at all?
do you really want everyone to go for the quick and easy
I've got a question.. what server do you play on? b/c I want to play on it too... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
207.200.24.214:27015 - Freaks Unleashed CD req
I play daily and comm almost every map i play, unless i join half way in or something.
Other tactics that get me flamed:
Putting armory in the corner so marines cant hump it. This also prevents mass prasiting from putting it in the middle.
Upgrading motion tracking first instead of armor/weapons.
giving out HA instead of JP's.
Dropping a TF instead of a PG in most scenarios.
I dont tech rush, I do capture a hive because IT IS A MUST FOR ALL YOU COMMS (lol), and I've noticed when I comm that it's equally balanced for the Aliens and the Marines. I almost won one game a few weeks ago, but my marine team just got too crowded with idiots begging for jps and humping the armoy.
GOOD TATIC FOR COMMS IF MARINES ARE AMMO HUMPING:
RECYCLE THE ARMORY!