1.1 Comm Debate Session
SDJason
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16841Members
<div class="IPBDescription">what do u think will work in 1.1...</div> Ok im just starting this as a conversation based on what we do know about 1.1, what comm strategies do people think will work, while you can disagree with someone and state your opinion with evidence, please no flaming, and be as complete as possible in your explanation.
This will better serve all comm's new to 1.1 when it comes out..
~Jason
This will better serve all comm's new to 1.1 when it comes out..
~Jason
Comments
Might need to wait till 1.1j before we start speculating strategies :/
Think about it this way:
Give them 3 hives and no resource towers, and they can bile bomb, web, leap, and (if they manage to wait long enough for 33 res) umbra and primal scream. Since you have those resource towers, you'll be teching up -- but since they can get all 3 chamber types, so will they.
Give them all the resources in the world but only 1 hive, and they'll have Fades/Oni. Not very good ones because they'll only have 1 chamber type and no 2nd/3rd hive abilities, but they're still rather pesky little things.
Neither situation is desirable. Balancing your efforts towards both resources and hives will be necessary.
Meanwhile there is a small team in base, defending and building. By the time the first <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> appears we should be rolling in HA, JP etc.
But my first Strat will be sending every marine ramboing in the direction of their first RT suiciding onto the RT itself
Ill probably try ignoring hives at first, also i doubt ill use mines at all in 1.1, sounds like the HMG is going to be essential to keep those onos at bay, so plenty of Weapon grades and HMGs.
Spawn
Upgrade Medpacks
Armory
Tf *required for electric upgrade*
elect tf by spawn/armory for protections vs skulks
send team to pressure their base *get rsr's for killing them/and to kill structs*
send rest of team to get some rsr's on opposite side of the map and electrify those nodes
Upgrade armory
get arms
start upgrades
get obs
get mt
get proto
upgrade ha/jp either or
ha/jp/hmg/shotty/gl them.
Keep upgrading unless ur pressure team wins first.
Who needs an hmg, real men use knives!
(I went one on one with a fresh hive 2 lerk today, who decided he should bite me... After a few misses, he seemed to get frantic, and I was able to get him with a knife... Even it's not that uncommon, it felt good!)
Relocating to a hive may seem like good strategy, but for most maps there are tons of places I'd consider as being better alternatives, especially if you know where the hive is.
Locations are considered "good" by me if they let the team control a large portion of the map, It's not really neccesary to control the res-nozzles themselves, as long as you control the paths to them.
Other good locations would be locations from where you can actually seal off the hive, without actually being in it.
I comm'ed a game on Nothing (1.04) where the marines nearly got raped in the spawn (mainly because of lamejoiners, teams started out 4 vs 7), fortunatly only one ip had been placed, so i sent the two surviving marines to generator room, as they would never have survived the next wave. Before the aliens wisened up a base was set up in generator, from there a counter assault was started (against cargo), and with the help from mine packs (new players had joined by now, evening the teams), they almost managed to take out the hive. From there on the aliens were on their heels for the rest of the game, an armoury was constructed outside ventilation chamber and communications hub, and two marines camped out the vent. The aliens were trapped inside their hive, and never got a single rt up as they had to make DCs in an attempt to break the "siege" near ventilation chamber.
If you put stuff close enough to it, it shocks skulks, so why not? Can't wait to try that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
~jason
Send everybody but like 2 people off to attack/harrass the aliens, and give them information about the location of the gorge, hive, chambers, etc (stock marines are free <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Get those 2 guys to weld close points and drop resnodes and mines, possibly on the way to one hive.
Spend my res on upgrades and *not* turrets (although an occasional phase gate is nice). My philosophy is upgrades pay off now. Turrets pay off later (or maybe not at all). This increases the harassment 'capabilities' of my harassment marines.
I also grab the key 'center' or so area on the map (e.g. mess on nancy, generator on nothing, holo or data core alpha on hera) This allows me to 1) have a place for marines to go which is relatively close to everything, 2) restrict alien access from one side of the map to the other, 3 and most importantly) be in *siege* range of resnodes. Yes, I siege resnodes. Many marines call me a noob commander for putting siege down out of range of a hive, but I find that keeping aliens from putting up res slows down their tech a lot. I also, incidentally, get called a noob commander for not building a protolab and researching jp right away (70 res!) I find that 70 res goes much better towards three res towers and a health pack or two to a marine in a tight spot. Plus, I don't really believe in jp rushing. It's too arbitrary (it's a tactic of 'give jp/hmg to a rambo and hope he's good enough). Siege cannons don't miss.
Once I'm pretty well upgraded (2W, 1A, about 5-10 minutes into the game, depending on map/marines) I decide it's hive siege time. I've long since upgraded the armory, but haven't told the marines.
I gather everybody in marine start, and send 2 or 3 guys to a siege point outside the hive, have them secure the area and fastbuild a phase. While they're doing this I've dropped maybe 3 HMGs in base, telling them to ammo up and phase as soon as it goes up.
Phase goes up, everyone goes through the phase to the siege point. I specify that the HMGs stay at the siege point.
Havoc ensues. Aliens try to take down the phase at all costs while HMG's hold them off (and die). Reinforcements immediately arrive, pick up the HMGs and continue. LMGers build TFs, Ts, and Siege guns (and die).
Eventually the alien respawn queue fills up, the hive goes down. I administer either HA or JP (marines preference) to all marines, give them the weapon of their choice, half of them welders, and spend the rest of my res on medpaks while they mop up.
Why does this seem to work so well for me? Marines cost nothing. Picking up dropped guns cost nothing. Upgrades are a one time sunk cost. I am more based around resource play than hive lockdown. Marines get places fast when they phase. (and follow waypoints better). Marines are built to defend rooms better than to assault them. Basically what I do is I use the unique resource aspects of marines to my advantage.
How will this change in 1.1? Well, my basic resource strategies will probably not change. With the advent of guns no longer being dropped in 1.1, I will have to give out more guns (and thus spend less res on the turrets in the siege point). However, siege will be faster, and so the marines will have to hold out for less of a time at the siege point. Electrified resnodes will replace mined resnodes, and an electrified tfac in base will probably replace mines (or at least some). I'll probably be willing to give out grenade launchers more often, since they seem to have been upgraded. Since during the mopup phase I refuse to let marines die (I'd just medpack them instead, even if they're stock) I don't have to worry about noweapon drop on death that much then.
I am very excited for 1.1 to come out. This is largely because I want to know how well my general tactics can apply to the new version. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> 2 hive lockdowns and jp rushes are dead. Long live epic battles over key locations!
Rhuadin aka
[UCB]Dragonrider, I play on LGSO, BAY, and EC
(Sorry about the verbosity)
This will be for 8 man teams, which is what I typically play with.
IP Armory, few mine packs for base. Split team up into 2 or 3 groups depending on server size/player ability/needed objectives. Assume 2 for beginning, and 1 base guard.
Send first group of 4 marines, and send them to pressure aliens, attack gorges, RTs, the Hive, whatever. But keep them busy.
Have second team of 2 marines go out and cap nodes. Build RT, Electryfy it, move on.
Hopefully I'll have an decent income so my base guard will be building arms lab and I'll start churning out passive upgrades and upgrade the armory.
Now I'm not sure on the pace of things, but I figure this'll be happening in the first 10-15 minutes and a few hives will have been placed up and taken down by my pressure squad. Who knows? So anyway, I'll hand out HMG's and GL's and with my powerful vanilla marines I'll move in and go for the kill.
Will this work? Psh hell if I know, but thats the general basis for my plan I got for 1.1
Nah, marine commanders will want to try their new, fancy electricity, the aliens will be too stupid to coordinate to take them down, and for a few weeks we'll have utter marine domination. Then the aliens will realize gorges + skulks = badass.
In 1.1 i plan to lockdown one hive only and fight for res. Especially dble res spots. On some maps. But i wont bother locking down hives without res points.
The beauty of 1.1 for me is in 1.04 i dotn bother getting high risk res nodes (well travelled, far from spawn, close ot hive etc) but with 1.1 i can and will get them then electro them ( i wont bother electroing 'safe res').
Other than that it will be the same ball game for me. Upgrades upgrades upgrades. BUT i will use the JP+HMG chareg mid-late game to take down hives occasionally. Wont win me the game but is cheap and will save me locking down those hives while annoying the aliens.
Mostly ill rely on uber lmgs (lv3) and HA.
Just like 1.04 the game will be won or lost in the LMG's ability to kill skulks early game to gain me res.