The Tao Of Skulking And Lerking
p4Samwise
Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10831Members
Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10831Members
<div class="IPBDescription">an educational demo</div> It seems like the toughest things for new NS players to get the hang of is not getting pwned as a skulk or lerk. For your viewing pleasure, I now present a demo I recorded this weekend of myself going about 10-1 as a skulk and 10-0 as a lerk (all in one game). Hopefully this'll shed some light on how exactly a person such as myself is able to annihilate marines without getting shot down constantly. It doesn't take godlike reflexes, just a keen appreciation of the Tao of Skulking.
<a href='http://www.leadtogold.com/clanp4/demos/p4_tanith1.dem' target='_blank'>Skulk/Lerk demo on Tanith</a>
Sadly, you can't see things like hivesight in this demo (might be a side effect of the GeekPlay repair job I had to do), so you'll have to imagine. For example, in the early game, I parasited a marine in his base; about three minutes later, that same marine went running out to try to pop our gorge, and I was able to watch him through the Reactor Room wall, run out, and eat him as the gorge was starting to scream for help.
Take note of the fact that I almost never expose myself to great risk (except for my one death, in which I sacrificed my life in tearing down a marine installation). Some call these tactics "cowardly". I call them the essence of the Kharaa.
<a href='http://www.leadtogold.com/clanp4/demos/p4_tanith1.dem' target='_blank'>Skulk/Lerk demo on Tanith</a>
Sadly, you can't see things like hivesight in this demo (might be a side effect of the GeekPlay repair job I had to do), so you'll have to imagine. For example, in the early game, I parasited a marine in his base; about three minutes later, that same marine went running out to try to pop our gorge, and I was able to watch him through the Reactor Room wall, run out, and eat him as the gorge was starting to scream for help.
Take note of the fact that I almost never expose myself to great risk (except for my one death, in which I sacrificed my life in tearing down a marine installation). Some call these tactics "cowardly". I call them the essence of the Kharaa.
Comments
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I now present a demo I recorded this weekend of myself going about 10-1 as a skulk and 10-0 as a lerk (all in one game). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but is the only point of this to brag? Also, you seem to forget the small fact that NS is not about how many people you kill or how little the amount of deaths you have.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For example, in the early game, I parasited a marine in his base; about three minutes later, that same marine went running out to try to pop our gorge, and I was able to watch him through the Reactor Room wall, run out, and eat him as the gorge was starting to scream for help.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What were you doing for 3 minutes. If you ask me, you should have killed him and spent the other 2 minutes 55 seconds killing other marines. Also, it is +NOT+, by any means, a good idea to let the marine team know where your gorge is or where he's off to, since they'll send more people in to kill him and it's your fault for not doing something earlier rather than **** around.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Take note of the fact that I almost never expose myself to great risk <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've seemed to miss the whole point of what the Skulk's role is.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some call these tactics "cowardly". I call them the essence of the Kharaa.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I call it timewasting, counter-productive, and glory hunting.
If i were you, any new players, disregard this players advice. We need less players like this.
Also, i'd warn people that that the demo is <b>10.4MB!!!</b> before they waste their time downloading it to watch you do nothing for 5 minutes and ocassionally insult someone.
*waits patiently to get post deleted*
For the first minute or so of the game, my first priority was to protect Reactor Room. This is usually the very first thing a skulk should do - go and make sure the marines don't move to the double res point. There's one on almost every map. (On ns_caged, the closest thing is Freight Elevator.) A marine team that relocates to the double res point has a HUGE advantage that can be hard to recover from. Tagging marines is also good, since it lets you keep tabs on enemy movements.
Thanks to my tagging in the first minute of the game, I was able to spot a marine heading off to kill the gorge, and intercept him (that was the guy I nabbed at the top of the elevator while he was looking the other way). If I hadn't been camping out in Reactor Room, our gorge would have died - a crippling setback. After that, I devoted myself to guarding the gorge, since the marines had already located him. Hence the three minutes or so in Reactor Room. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR GORGE OUT THERE ALONE. I can't stress this enough.
Once I got the call about the doings in Satcom, I checked with the gorge to be sure he was okay, and then took off. Here is one of the places where we see the Tao of Skulking in action. My teammates charged in the front way and died. I took the time to line up my approach by scouting out multiple approaches, and by striking the marines from the unguarded vent, took out their entire base solo. This is not bragging; anyone else could have done the same *if* he took the time to approach the thing intelligently instead of ramboing in.
Of course, in my absence the marines started taking Reactor Room (I surmised from this that nobody but me was making an effort to guard key locations - oh well), and I gave my life to reclaim it. Another part of the Tao of Skulking: absorbing bullets can be very useful to your team, but only if your team is actually there to reap the benefits! If I hadn't had backup there, I would have retreated and waited to group up.
From that point on the game was pretty well in hand, so I amused myself by lerking before we had a hive up. People new to lerking should watch this part, and also observe my teammates, since we had a number of decent lerks out there. They leaned toward spike harassment, whereas I mixed it up with a bit of swoop-and-decapitate; your mileage may vary, so do what you're comfortable with.
The point of all this is not that I'm a godlike player; it's that with the right mindset, you can inflict great damage to marines without dying repeatedly. Some will tell you that it doesn't matter how many times you die, but remember, every time you die, you take up a spot in the respawn queue and prevent a teammate from spawning in, not to mention losing any resources you might have spent evolving. I only spent 37 res during that entire game, and only took up 8 seconds of precious respawn time. Most of the time I was maxed out on res, and in the field keeping marines at bay. This is the way to be.
Esuna, I'm sorry if you feel that conserving res, protecting the gorge, and tearing down marine expansions is a waste of time and "glory hunting". There are many new players who express frustration at constantly being mowed down as a skulk; I'm hoping that by demonstrating techniques that have worked for me, they'll be able to develop their own styles and be more useful to their teams (not to mention enjoying the game more themselves!). You'll note that with the possible exception of lerk swooping, not much of what I was doing requires a great deal of practice or innate talent, only the correct mindset - namely, stay stealthy, and be mindful of what's going on around you.
If you don't think seeing a demo of other players is going to be helpful, by all means skip the 10 meg download. I just know that when I was learning, I looked around quite a bit for demos to get tips from, and found nothing but written descriptions, which are less than helpful in the grand scheme of things. I'm hoping to see that trend turned around a bit - other people with demos that they think illustrate important concepts should definitely post them.
Basically, if you are a good Taoist skulk, as you are, more power to you. But it is not for everybody. You must find balance. Find your niche and do it well, and you can be far more helpful to the team than trying fancy tactics.
That's why I really like this game. It's not just a reflex session, like Counter Strike. There is a role for everybody to play.
Basically, if you are a good Taoist skulk, as you are, more power to you. But it is not for everybody. You must find balance. Find your niche and do it well, and you can be far more helpful to the team than trying fancy tactics.
That's why I really like this game. It's not just a reflex session, like Counter Strike. There is a role for everybody to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely. But this is definately +NOT+ the common role of the skulk. That is, as you state, doing suicide runs and throwing your life at the marines to a) stunt their growth and b) waste their res.
And you make it sound like i advocate the abandoning of the fatty. Well no, since i am the fatty a good number of times, and i +ALWAYS+ keep a skulk with me, but in the same room, NOT 4 rooms away. Since that wouldn't help at all. Also, did you ever stop and think that one of the other marines, one of the ones you didn't parasite, could just walk up and kill your gorge without you knowing? This is very sloppy and bad defending.
It seems to me that samwise is a lerk even when he was a skulk.
samwise what fps do you get, i watched the demo with 60 fps and it looked like i had about 30 fps =|
this should be in kharaa strategy
and he's trying to help others learn, so no getting upset over small things, this is NS, not CS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
LERK = Stealth sniper and support
SKULK = Crazy biting Bastege of Doom!
Can a Lerk <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> pick up a GORGE <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> or a Skulk <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> ?
It can if the server you're on has a mod installed to allow such behavior. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> And there is indeed such a mod widely available.
Can a Lerk <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> pick up a GORGE <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> or a Skulk <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be a <b>plug-in</b> called 'Lerklift'
Very useful for helping your gorge, and ermmm.....getting rid of the bad ones.
My funniest moment with lerk lift was on the untitled kharaa tooth pick association server.
We had 2 gorgs, one was getting res nodes, the other was doing, well, nothing. Guess which one had to go <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Turns out the one doing nothing was french, funny phrases over the voice comm ensued (Remember this is with a french accent)
"Oh PolyMorph, put me down...where are you going."
"Put me down, you damn, you damn newbie."
"You god damned n00b, stop picking me up."
Marines were laughing their arses off <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: And now, back to your regularly scheduled flame war.
On the other hand, advanced tactics require substantially more complicated techniques than I saw in the demo. Guarding the gorge requires constantly checking ahead when he's moving, and taking up ambush positions just outside his room (if one entrance) or inside (if multiple) where you can easily at least distract attacking marines before they kill the gorge.
Further, protecting the double res is NOT THE FIRST PRIORITY OF SKULKS. If you plant all your skulks in the double res, you allow the marines to run RAMPANT. Selective defense of crucial choke points is more effective early on against a good marine team, especially since the staggered positions make it harder for them to guess where you are (and thus to kill you). Sure, someone should watch the double res (or triple...), but it's not of such importance... Generally one or two of the newer skulks can take the double res while the good ones take more likely, important routes.
Pressure is also critical. Don't let them tech, don't let them get res nodes, pressure is the keyword for 1.04 Khaara. While some need to stay back in ambush positions to prevent easy movement, the rest should be attacking, and constantly. Suicide mines to make them place new ones... After all, you're FREE!
Lerk was better, but this isn't the end all either. Far from... You seem fond of stating how NS is so wonderfully strategic and non-twitch... It's also non-repetition, even with the level of monotony in 1.04. Skulks still need to think per situation, per map, per enemy, per game strategy. What you should be saying, if you really wish to help newer players, is to advise them on how best to LEARN from their experience... Nothing else will take them from mediocre skulks to the stuff of marine nightmares.
stopping the marines from expanding is much more important than holding a double res node, they will just get the 2 res points somewhere else
at least the scores are being removed in 1.1
A FATTY IS NOT A TANK
The Gorge is a fat, slow, weak fighter. Why do ppl insist on trying to be a Gorge that throws away his life, hurting someones legs?
If your going to be a Gorge, think about the fact that they get more RES to them, then a skulk, now if you have 4 Gorges..... thats 2 res comming in every 5 Seconds.. or something, not very good! If you want to help your Gorge, try being his body guard.
Bodyguarding the Gorge will make you loved by everyone on the team!
Even if you fail to save the gorge's life, at least you tryed to save him, buying him the chance to live, he wouldn't have had otherwise.
How many times have I been all by my self as a Gorge trying to cap Res and BOOM, my team leaves me alone, and I have to run for my FAT life!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <---- "CRAP!!!"
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
A FATTY IS NOT A TANK
The Gorge is a fat, slow, weak fighter. Why do ppl insist on trying to be a Gorge that throws away his life, hurting someones legs? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps you should erase all your NS files, reinstall them and play as a newbie. Two words underscored into one:
<b>cl_autohelp</b>
It clearly gives helpful hints to new players and ENCOURAGES them to go gorge. It says that aliens can involve, then something like: "Go on - try it! Hold down your right mouse button, then up.right.release Voila! You have now evolved into a gorge! Go build lots of structures for your team, fatty."
Until they get rid of this hideous abomination newbies will always go gorge and then sit around saying: "What do I do? I'll go attack marines..."
stopping the marines from expanding is much more important than holding a double res node, they will just get the 2 res points somewhere else
at least the scores are being removed in 1.1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't judge worth based on kill/death ratios, for better or for worse. The skulk who lays ambushes and takes marines out far from home (and stays alive each time, conserving res and spawn time) is being far more helpful than the kamikaze who runs into the marine base and eats armory humpers.
Very true that you can't play the entire game around the two res node, but more often than not that's what the game ends up revolving around whether you want it to or not. Single res nodes usually aren't worth turret farming/phasing, so they're easily munched - but once marines get hold of a double res, they farm it up the wazoo, and then very quickly have the entire team outfitted with HMGs. GG.
If you as one skulk do nothing but keep the entire marine team off a double res, you're doing good.