Bleed Or Not To Bleed

Cyborgguineapig · May 2003

The server I am currently a regualr on has decided to put blood on. Now I know this is not the Dev teams intensions but I must honestly say that the overall mood of the server is much more fun in "my opinion". I also know how the Dev team wants NS to be a family freindly game but since its an admins choice as to how they run a server, I guess its okay and since we don't gain to many new players anyway, aminly just regs around. Getting blood feedback from biting a marine feels more satisfying to me and lets you know wen you've hit a marine instead of having to guess. Plus there's just this FPS addicts addiction with blood, sorry I'll spill my honesty, I love blood (NOT GORE) just blood in FPS and in my opinion I asked myself today if blood in NS would really make a difference to the community size. I can't say all people enjoy blood in FPShooters but we can agree that most of them come standard with it. Some of my freinds for example were repulsive and disgusted that NS had no blood when I mentioned this to them and this fact alone deters them away from NS. Its kinda demonic and malice way of thinking but I beleive the true reason why blood is standard in FPShooters is that it gives the player a sense of reality in a virtual world without the effect of actually killing someone. It is really true that the human species loves violence in one way or another,sometimes unnconciously, sometimes for pleaure, before you reject this theory just think how many times you have watched an automobile race such as Nascar and wacthed it purely and simply hoping to see some big pileup or collition?

Please express your opinions about how blood effects gameplay for NS, mainly it should come from those who have used the mod or played on a server with the blood. And please keep this as mature a discussion as possible. You can also discuss blood in games in general and how they effect gameplay and such.

Roobubba · May 2003

OK, well I have just put hullu's blood mod on my server and I have to say I love it.

Unlike you, I also love gore in games. I used to play Kingpin, to put this into perspective.

I don't have a problem with people swearing in my server, as long as they're not being overly abusive or annoying, and I try to discourage the "younger" players from playing there (read < teens), because it's not suitable for them.

One thing I loved about Soldier of Fortune was the dismemberment and location specific animations that were, let's be honest, VERY gory. The fact remains, it's only a game, and in a game pretty much anything goes. Games try to imitate reality, not become reality. I don't believe that games have any influence on increasing violence in the people who play them. That doesn't account for the "odd balls" who go off and kill their families, but let's be truthful here, they would have done it anyway and they are a MINISCULE minority.

I am a firm supporter of blood (and gore) in games. Rock on hullu and can we have some gibs please <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Grendel · May 2003

Meh.

What's next, a rape simulator? A gib/blood pack for Pong?

Pretty twisted way to get your jolies.

I love violence on a large and graphic scale. I also like chocolate. However neither is good for me. Co-incidentally, neither will be included in NS either.

Insane · May 2003

Yeah, I don't see the point in it really.

How can blood make it so much better? It's not even needed. You have sparks as an indicator that the marines have been hit, as well as the chomp sound when you bite something.

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, extra blood is an odd way of getting kicks.

Bigwig · May 2003

I just wish that blood was added so I could tell if I hit a marine or not. It doesn't even have to be blood... maybe just a meaty *crunch* sound, flakes of armour coming off, or a change to the bite animation (like when you successfully bite, the animation only plays halfway to simulate that you chomped on something). It would help out skulking a <i>whole</i> lot.

So, I would love if blood was implemented, but I can live without it just as long as they make a better hit indicator.

Infinitum · May 2003

Well, I got the red blood replacement sprites for my kharaa models. All the blood I need really.

It doesn't really add or subject from the atmosphere really.... I just think all blood should be red.

Damn non-conformist kharaa scum....

Xanieth · May 2003

I like how no gore or blood makes the llamas go away.

Venmoch · May 2003

I'm not a fan of loads of blood in games. If its there I don't mind but there are some cases where I think "That shouldn't be in their thats sick" (SOF is one of them.)

I stand fully by the Development Team in the no blood for marines. Purely because NS doesn't need it at all.

Twex · May 2003

I don't care if it's blood or a fluffy squeaky bunny, but there needs to be better indicator telling you whether you hit the marine or not. Tiny sparks don't cut it.

TeoH · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyborgguineapig @ May 15 2003, 05:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Some of my freinds for example were repulsive and disgusted that NS had no blood when I mentioned this to them and this fact alone deters them away from NS.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Your friends aren't 14 years old perchance are they?

Why would you assume that a game must be aimed at a family audience if it doesn't include blood? There are reasons for not wanting ridiculous Mortal Kombat gore effects other than simply protecting fragile minds.

My own perspective is that i couldn't care less, provided it didn't obscure my vision or effect gameplay in any way. But i can certainly understand a decision to not add blood effects in, and it doesn't have to be anything to do with a games age rating. All my experiences would suggest ridiculous gore effects will ATTRACT children.

TeoH · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ May 15 2003, 06:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't care if it's blood or a fluffy squeaky bunny, but there needs to be better indicator telling you whether you hit the marine or not. Tiny sparks don't cut it.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Hitbeeps for both races would be lovely. But developers seem to dislike hitbeeps for "Atmospheric" reasons :/

Daemonlaud · May 2003

If you get scared by blood, NS is <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=32164' target='_blank'>already too scary for you</a>.

Anyway, the Suggestions and Ideas forum FAQ doesn't say that blood will NEVER make it into the game - just gibs and body chunks.
I for one hope they decide a bit of the red stuff is in order. It really is a fairly odd distinction to make - I thought only the Department of Film and Media Classification was silly enough to say that alien blood is ok, but human blood is just...just...too mean.

I mean, geez, everyone has seen blood before...

Pykmi · May 2003

If you would need to know when you hit a marine, I have a solution:

There should be a different sound for hitting/killing marines than structures. I have edited my kill and some hit sounds, and its quite fun to hear an armory saying " God darn that hurt a little bit, but now I'm okay" when I parasite it. It's also quite odd to hear an armory screaming in pain when i bite it.

Yea, I have edited my painsounds allright. I stole them from some CS painsoundpack made by the awesome Spastic Child.

Dread · May 2003

I don't know if blood would make ns any better but it does seem rather odd that devs are trying to keep NS as family game where as even basic Half-Life has lots of gibs, blood and gore. And probably kids who have problem with blood in games already have problems with those scary Kharaa. I know im scared when Skulk leaps on my face <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

We don't want NS to be my-little-ponies vs. friendly farmers do we?

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

I suffer from a low enough framerate <b>even</b> if I drop to 640 resolution. I don't want a performance hit from unnecessary blood sprites, etc.

Insane · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ May 15 2003, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you get scared by blood, NS is <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=32164' target='_blank'>already too scary for you</a>.

Anyway, the Suggestions and Ideas forum FAQ doesn't say that blood will NEVER make it into the game - just gibs and body chunks.
I for one hope they decide a bit of the red stuff is in order. It really is a fairly odd distinction to make - I thought only the Department of Film and Media Classification was silly enough to say that alien blood is ok, but human blood is just...just...too mean.

I mean, geez, everyone has seen blood before...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You are wrong on several accounts.

First there is the fact that you can feel that blood is not nescessary whilst still not being scared by it.

Also, blood will never make it in. In the S&I faq, it says:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><b>Things that have been discussed and will <i>not</i> be going into NS for gameplay or story reasons:</b>
Excess <b>blood</b> (gibs, gore)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Blood isn't going in.

Solis · May 2003

I personally really like the blood. I'm not a randomly violent person who likes gore, mind you, but I think it adds a sense of realism and does actually enhance the gameplay. In addition to being a clear hit indicator (which is what I like most about it), you can also see where battles took place. If you walk into a hallway and see blood splattered on the walls, you're going to be much more caucious then you regularly would (and bodies seem to disapear a lot quick then blood, at least with my settings). Also, it just seems more immersive when you get hit and see your own blood, it makes it seem more like you were actually sliced or bitten rather then just clubed on the head. Though the server I played on (hi Cyborg!) had pretty excessive blood, but I would like to see then NS team put a little bit of blood into the game, if for no other reason then for hit indication (it certainly doesn't have to be much, people don't spurt gallons and gallons of blood everytime thier hit like in Anime). If aliens bleed, why can't humans?

DizzyOne · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Solis @ May 15 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I personally really like the blood. I'm not a randomly violent person who likes gore, mind you, but I think it adds a sense of realism and does actually enhance the gameplay. In addition to being a clear hit indicator (which is what I like most about it), you can also see where battles took place. If you walk into a hallway and see blood splattered on the walls, you're going to be much more caucious then you regularly would (and bodies seem to disapear a lot quick then blood, at least with my settings). Also, it just seems more immersive when you get hit and see your own blood, it makes it seem more like you were actually sliced or bitten rather then just clubed on the head. Though the server I played on (hi Cyborg!) had pretty excessive blood, but I would like to see then NS team put a little bit of blood into the game, if for no other reason then for hit indication (it certainly doesn't have to be much, people don't spurt gallons and gallons of blood everytime thier hit like in Anime). If aliens bleed, why can't humans?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
totally agree, I dont have much to add to what he said cuz he said it all <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

But ppl that play this game have already seen enough blood in HL and CS, I am pretty sure not one person playing this game hasnt played HL or CS, and if their parents didnt allow their children to buy them HL they coudnt even play this game (I have a cousin who is 7 and he wasnt allowed to buy HL so how could he ever play NS?)

I think blood is something for the atmosphere, also if comm sees blood everywhere they'll probly give more medpacks <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Psycho-Kinetic_Hyper-Geek · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ May 15 2003, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ May 15 2003, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you get scared by blood, NS is <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=32164' target='_blank'>already too scary for you</a>.

Anyway, the Suggestions and Ideas forum FAQ doesn't say that blood will NEVER make it into the game - just gibs and body chunks.
I for one hope they decide a bit of the red stuff is in order.? It really is a fairly odd distinction to make - I thought only the Department of Film and Media Classification was silly enough to say that alien blood is ok, but human blood is just...just...too mean.

I mean, geez, everyone has seen blood before...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You are wrong on several accounts.

First there is the fact that you can feel that blood is not nescessary whilst still not being scared by it.

Also, blood will never make it in. In the S&I faq, it says:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><b>Things that have been discussed and will <i>not</i> be going into NS for gameplay or story reasons:</b>
Excess <b>blood</b> (gibs, gore)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Blood isn't going in.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Note the EXCESS part. That statement rules out gibbing or giant fountains of blood, not a few little drops when you get hit.

Daemonlaud · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Note the EXCESS part. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Thankyou Psycho-Kinetic, apparently someone here can *read* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
You can view the FAQ as specifically wording to avoid precluding the option to ever have marine blood - they are considering putting it in.
I say, the sooner the better.
Bloodpsats are a good idea for the same reason that marine death screams are - to increase realism, immersion and atmosphere.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I suffer from a low enough framerate even if I drop to 640 resolution. I don't want a performance hit from unnecessary blood sprites, etc.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

//me enters unnecessarily harsh mode. Sorry guys; blame it on my run in with stupid people today. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Dude, two words: Upgrade Time.

If you can't run a game based on an engine almost 9 years old, it's time to really consider how the heck you are running the latest version of Internet Explorer...or are you just playing against bots? They will hit your 486 pretty hard from what I'm told.

**before you can call me ****, here, I've saved you the trouble**

In all seriousness, I am 100% for backwards compat, but you gotta draw the line somewhere, otherwise you end up holding everyone for the sake of a small minority.
Regardless, <i>bloodspats and graphical effects of all kinds are generally specifically controllable through console</i>
If someone isn't happy with em, they could turn em off.

No reason to deprive all for the sake of the few weak-stomached, morally indignant fanatics or stone-age-equipped amongst us - that can all customise their client anyway...

Jimyd · May 2003

to add to this, most of those 10-13 olds that play this game have already played counter strike or tfc, so they already know what blood is on a large scale. I've seen a 5 year old kid playing tfc once, funniest thing you can hear over the mic.

michaeltoe · May 2003

Blood should be both a server and a user option... I don't see exactly why people oppose the issue. You are, after all, killing the person. Blood should be expected, and if you're not offended by 'A' when 'B' is so obviously related, you've got issues.

It's right up there with swear filters (god forbid I criticize their banality)

Insane · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ May 15 2003, 02:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Note the EXCESS part. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Thankyou Psycho-Kinetic, apparently someone here can *read* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
You can view the FAQ as specifically wording to avoid precluding the option to ever have marine blood - they are considering putting it in.
I say, the sooner the better.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Fair enough. But let me show it from a different angle. Flayra has said that he will never have blood or gore in NS. Specifically.

FireStorm · May 2003

I wouldn't mind to have some blood. It would be more realistic.

Nemesis_Zero · May 2003

*Sigh*

Folks, this discussion is pointless. Flayra had decided against marine blood, gore, and gibs before the first designdocs were finished, and stood by his descision ever since. This topic reoccurs every two months and NS has been in development for about two and a half year now, so don't think you'll bring any new arguments into the equation.

No red stuff in NS. Accept it and move on.

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ May 15 2003, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Dude, two words: Upgrade Time.

If you can't run a game based on an engine almost 9 years old, it's time to really consider how the heck you are running the latest version of Internet Explorer...or are you just playing against bots? They will hit your 486 pretty hard from what I'm told.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No need to get all uppity and sarcastic about it you ...URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...

Not all of us have endless money from our parents. Or do you wnt me to get all Cradle Of Filth on your **** arse?

Frogg2 · May 2003

Actually it wouldn't hurt your fps, remember server decal limit. Includes everything from bullet holes to alien blood to sprays.

Fam · May 2003

<img src='http://www.bibletruthkeys.com/_borders/lock.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

This post is flamier than a flame pit.

Spyder_Monkey · May 2003

/me adds Fam's image to his personal favorites.

Bleed Or Not To Bleed

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