Croutching Marines
MercsDragon
Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6963Members
Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 6963Members
<div class="IPBDescription">should it be considered cheating?</div> I was just wondering if the dev's have said anything about the croutch bug for marines. Where it's very hard to bite a croutching marine. Is it just a bug in NS that might be fixed? and should it be considered cheating to use?
Comments
This **should** be addressed in 1.1
with a skulk.
using bite.
upside.
backwards.
on your hands.
uphill.
in the snow.
with a skulk.
using bite.
upside.
backwards.
on your hands.
uphill.
in the snow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, I like that
back to T, I didn't know it was a bug. No wonder that skulk told me to stand up, so he could kill me. Because I was crouching trying to knife him.
Cheating to croutch
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No rush 5 minute kekekeke ^_^
learn to hold crouch as a skulk and aim proper and marines who think theyre invulnerable fall like kitty kibble.
FYI it's a hitbox problem and it is being addressed, in the meantime press duck. It works.
Roo
You know what? Breathing while you play is considered as a cheap exploit too...
If you want to kill a crouched marine just aim at his feet and bite.
exactly!!! i crouch all the time (because thats how i play anyway when i stop moving i usually crouch in a corner. and i get called lame for it...
and people get called lame for bhopping... its a tactic and bhoping marines are still pretty easy to kill. people just seem to complain because they die or something.
bhopping is an exploit as is crouch bunnyhopping, jumping about like a looney tying not to get killed is not the same thing. Bhop and crouch bug will (should) be sorted in 1.1 and have been talked to death already.
That said, crouching helps significantly, but I most certainly does not address all the hitbox issues faced in the game. Crouching does not help you kill marines on ladders, or bite marine's heads, or kill marines entrenched in nancy's infamous spawn vent.
This is an issue that only the devs can address - the sooner the better.
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Related though as alien crouching works most of the time, but aiming down always works. Just aim for that hitbox that you know is a bit too low.
The vent melee protection isn't that lame , since the marines already have a clear sight of their target (they can't miss) so frontal attacks in vents should result in marine win anyway.
Even though the recoil is practically non-existent compared to those mods, I always feel like I can aim more accurately crouched in Ns. It helps being stationary and not on the run. Sorry if that is considered cheap. I am definitely not trying to exploit.
Now, that being said, I personally believe marines in vents is evil. This is the closest thing to a "crouching exploit" in the game. I know from experiance.. a marine in a vent will mow sulks down with an lmg or pistol... hell I've gotten 2 with a knife before.... but this is not a GAME issue.. this is a MAP issue. I can see having some vents marine accessable... but if you don't want a marine in a vent.. well there are some simple ways of stoping him... even if he's got a JP... I know from experiance... I've played around with how to keep marines out of vents in the map I'm making.....
So, to sum up:
1)Croushing is a tactic, live with it, and find something else to do besides complain.. (like learn what marine feet taste like...)
2) Marines in vents is lame, and annoying... be a good sport, and don't do it... (unless you have a damned good reason)
Here's make take on this entire issue:
1) A cheat, or exploit rather, is anything that might give you an unfair advantage that the devs did not plan or did not want you to have. Marines crouching in vents, Bhopping, and Aimbots all fall well within that category.
2) Marines crouching isn't a problem per-se. You would expect that if a marine is under attack from a lerk or a fade long-range he would crouch to make himself a smaller target, and if a marine is under attack from a quick skulk he would try and jump away from the skulk to make himself harder to hit. (I think crouch-jumping is bad though) The problem comes in that the reverse is true - When under attack from a lerk from a distance the marine will dodge back and forth to try a dodge while shooting back, and when under attack from a skulk the marine will crouch so that he's almost impossible to hit and shoot - or even knife - the skulk.
The solution is merely to fix the hitbox problem, so that while the hitbox is still smaller for a crouched marine, it's not that much smaller.
I'm sorry sir, but that is just plain wrong. marines HAVE to crouch in many vents.. do you propose that marines who use the entire enviroment are as bad as aimbotters?
Bhopping has been around for a very long time, its been beat to death with flames on this forum and many others... but regardless of your opinion of it.. Bhopping can be acommplished in game with nothing more than the defualt configuration. How exactly is that on the same level as aim-botting?
Take your ignorance elsewhere please.
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I've tried and leap works much better than bite in vents.
FYI with 5 Fps it took me 3 leaps to kill a JPer in the vents <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't think as crouch as an exploit unless the marines are abusing it . Camping in vents or in small corners while they are crouched I say that they are exploiting . Hope that the problem is solved soon.
1) A cheat, or exploit rather, is anything that might give you an unfair advantage that the devs did not plan or did not want you to have. Marines crouching in vents, Bhopping, and Aimbots all fall well within that category.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand your view, but there are problems:
How do you know what the dev's intentions were? Short of an email to every player of the game, this is a very dangerous line of thought, opening it up to interpretation. Few courtcases are won by saying 'oh the law doesn't apply in this case because I don't think that is what the framer's were really thinking when they wrote it'.
Also, aimbots are not part of the game. They are external third party programs or modifications - as I said anything within the game itself cannot be construed as a 'cheat'. Crouching is a perfect example - how can you prove someone was thinking 'exploitative' thoughts when they were crouching in the middle of the room? Maybe they just thought crouching makes you more accurate...
The only way something can be a cheat is if 1) it is a deliberate unsanctioned modification to the game that yields an imbalancing advantage or 2) if it violates specifically pre-agreed rules (if say, you played in a tournament where building outside a window was banned, and did this, it would be cheating).
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I certainly agree with that sentiment.
Daemonlaud Posted: May 15 2003, 04:59 AM
Dark Queen
Group: Members
Posts: 666
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How very appropriate ;)
I'm glad people are actually looking at the horribly flawed logic in this. You cannot throw a hissy fit when a marine crouches, i don't care what you think he thought he was doing. Inconsistant hitbox problems, latency that is constantly missinterpreted as a hitbox problem, and being killed by a player of greater skill and whining about hitboxes cannot be grounds for any sort of cheat accusation. There is no 'unfair advantage' there is only an inconsistant, flawed problem with hit detection.
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how can you prove someone was thinking 'exploitative' thoughts when they were crouching in the middle of the room?
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Taken even further - why are you even calling them 'exploitative' thoughts in the first place? When a player crouches down in a corner because he knows doing so will make him a harder target, why is he "exploiting" and a clueless player doing exactly the same thing not? Yes the hit detection needs improving, but the flaws effect all players equally - from the default configuration any player who loads up NS is subject to the same hit detection as anyone else. Why do you make a distinction between knowing:
"Crouching in a particular location is a good way to avoid being killed"
"JP and HMG is a good way to prevent a second hive"
"Building defence chambers first is a good way to avoid losing horribly and being called a newb"
Didn't any of you ever play football in a lake, or soccer in the winter time?
The reason I don't get **** is because they aren't hacking, they're just using the game as it is designed (whether intended or not) and it's something anyone can do. People like to moan about how it's "not supposed to be that way", but the things that are 'supposed' to be are arbitrary anyway. Until it gets fixed, you might as well view it as another method of ordinary gameplay. It's not like crouching will win the game for you anyway... you still have to work at it.
Besides, trying to tell people not to exploit always ends up with a shouting match, or someone being banned, for utterly pointless reasons. Just adjust your strategy to account for them, and wait for 1.1 to come out.