Whichbot
clamatius
Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">WhichBot news announcement</div> <b>Version .3 for WhichBot is ready!</b>
In future, all WhichBot-related news will be posted to this thread.
One important caveat - the bundled README didn't get updated properly in the released build. The correct commands to turn team auto-balance on/off are "wb balance on" and "wb balance off". This makes it easier for server admins to enable bots from their server config file.
Latest features and updates:
<ul>
<li> Fade support! Aliens now evolve to Fade when they have enough resources and hives. All the bots won't go fade simultaneously, to make sure that vent scouting is still covered (we hate the jetpackers...).
<li> Waypoint path learning algorithm. If a bot is getting stuck somewhere due to a buggy waypoint or whatever, they work out it takes longer to go that way and choose paths accordingly. For example, if a grate is welded shut, they'll figure it out without special waypoints.
<li> New WolfPack strategy, courtesy of happybadger. Bots now function as rambo-type scouts or as a cooperative attack/scout pack that works together. You'll see the behaviour when you have 3 bots or more. The leader of the pack will wait for stragglers.
<li> New Rescue strategy, courtesy of happybadger. Bots should respond to hive attacks.
<li> Fades should shoot at mines to clear them, if they're not too close.
<li> Newly waypointed level - ns_lost.
<li> Newly waypointed level - ns_eclipse. Thanks to Joe O'Neil for that one.
<li> Added whichbot_version cvar so you can find WhichBot servers via variable filters.
<li> Fixed a number of waypointing bugs.
<li> Fixed a couple of bugs where siege turrets and phase gates never got attacked.
<li> Improved navigation round other aliens somewhat.
<li> Bots now choose Celerity over Silence. Seems to work out better.
<li> Updated Metamod version in the bundled build to v1.16 for latest HLDS support.
</ul>
If you've got any questions, check the <a href='http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=16096&group_id=76903' target='_blank'>FAQ</a> first here in case we already answered it.
The homepage for the bot is <a href='http://whichbot.sourceforge.net' target='_blank'>here</a>. You can download the latest version <a href='http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>here</a>. In the unfortunate event that you find a bug, bug reports go <a href='http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=76903&atid=548622' target='_blank'>here</a> and finally, bot-specific discussions can go in the forums at <a href='http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>this link</a>.
Some feedback from a playtester from v0.21dev -
<i>"As a side note, last night on the pub server we were playing Lawrence and some bots and they were kicking our ****. Finally, we turned the tide by taking down some hives and one of the marines said 'I don't just want to beat these guys anymore, lets humiliate them'.
He was quite surprised when I told him that all but one of the aliens were bots and thus couldn't be humiliated. hehehe. He said they were the smartest Ns bots he's ever played against."</i>
As a parting note, bot development may slow slightly to account for the birth of my son last Monday. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let us know what you think about the bot - feedback (good and bad) is appreciated.
In future, all WhichBot-related news will be posted to this thread.
One important caveat - the bundled README didn't get updated properly in the released build. The correct commands to turn team auto-balance on/off are "wb balance on" and "wb balance off". This makes it easier for server admins to enable bots from their server config file.
Latest features and updates:
<ul>
<li> Fade support! Aliens now evolve to Fade when they have enough resources and hives. All the bots won't go fade simultaneously, to make sure that vent scouting is still covered (we hate the jetpackers...).
<li> Waypoint path learning algorithm. If a bot is getting stuck somewhere due to a buggy waypoint or whatever, they work out it takes longer to go that way and choose paths accordingly. For example, if a grate is welded shut, they'll figure it out without special waypoints.
<li> New WolfPack strategy, courtesy of happybadger. Bots now function as rambo-type scouts or as a cooperative attack/scout pack that works together. You'll see the behaviour when you have 3 bots or more. The leader of the pack will wait for stragglers.
<li> New Rescue strategy, courtesy of happybadger. Bots should respond to hive attacks.
<li> Fades should shoot at mines to clear them, if they're not too close.
<li> Newly waypointed level - ns_lost.
<li> Newly waypointed level - ns_eclipse. Thanks to Joe O'Neil for that one.
<li> Added whichbot_version cvar so you can find WhichBot servers via variable filters.
<li> Fixed a number of waypointing bugs.
<li> Fixed a couple of bugs where siege turrets and phase gates never got attacked.
<li> Improved navigation round other aliens somewhat.
<li> Bots now choose Celerity over Silence. Seems to work out better.
<li> Updated Metamod version in the bundled build to v1.16 for latest HLDS support.
</ul>
If you've got any questions, check the <a href='http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=16096&group_id=76903' target='_blank'>FAQ</a> first here in case we already answered it.
The homepage for the bot is <a href='http://whichbot.sourceforge.net' target='_blank'>here</a>. You can download the latest version <a href='http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>here</a>. In the unfortunate event that you find a bug, bug reports go <a href='http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=76903&atid=548622' target='_blank'>here</a> and finally, bot-specific discussions can go in the forums at <a href='http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>this link</a>.
Some feedback from a playtester from v0.21dev -
<i>"As a side note, last night on the pub server we were playing Lawrence and some bots and they were kicking our ****. Finally, we turned the tide by taking down some hives and one of the marines said 'I don't just want to beat these guys anymore, lets humiliate them'.
He was quite surprised when I told him that all but one of the aliens were bots and thus couldn't be humiliated. hehehe. He said they were the smartest Ns bots he's ever played against."</i>
As a parting note, bot development may slow slightly to account for the birth of my son last Monday. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let us know what you think about the bot - feedback (good and bad) is appreciated.
Comments
very nice.
They do it deliberately in v0.3. We've got some demos of wolfpack attacks where 4 skulks or so go in against a couple of marines. All I'm going to say is, reloading can be problematic sometimes... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's also fun to see the first bot "take one for the team", run into a wall of mines and the rest stream through the gap.
There's definitely still a couple of AI exploits we know about, but I'll leave it as an exercise for the marine to find them...
Hm. I think I'll download the 1.04 server files, and pit some RCBot Marines against WhichBot Aliens. I'll comm, and I'll give the aliens an RCBot to gorge.
From what I hear, I'll get creamed.
I'd love to play with these bots on a populated server...
If you want to play against the bots on a public server, my employer (WildTangent) kindly agreed to host them, so you can. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Look for the WildTangent NS server, the bot auto-balance should be on there. I think the ns_hera test waypoints are up, although they're probably pretty dodgy at this point. If you're playing on the alien team, the first thing you should do when the game starts is eat the grating in the vent leading into the marine start - they don't notice edible gratings yet, sadly.
We're planning to add basic gorging next version (v0.4).
[edit - added ns_hera stuff]
If you're still having trouble, I'd be happy to help you - just post here or PM me with your problem.
congrats on the intensely good bots.
If you're still having trouble, I'd be happy to help you - just post here or PM me with your problem. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oops, I plain and simpily missed that. Stupid me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The marine's-eye view, I guess. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully the board will let me post it (haven't posted images here before)...
<img src='http://www.whichbot.com/images/oops-tn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
iam using the latest hlds including the fix that updated it ( beta )
Anyway. The result?
WhichBot DECIMATES RCBot. There is no contest.
Oh, sure, RCBot can kill WhichBotters, with regularity even. But they can't win the game against them. Not with the most patient commander in the universe trying to babysit them.
Here's how the, oh, about 10 minute game went:
I added the bots from the ReadyRoom, so RCBots were left on their own for maybe 10 seconds before I joined, and got in the comm chair. In that time, all 3 RCBots had left the marine base in order to charge a hive. They never made it to the hive (they were heading towards Alpha, on ns_lost) but instead go stuck in the middle of an empty hallway. After 30 seconds of trying to make them return to base so they could build infantry portals, I gave up, and decided to relocate to where my RCBots had gone. I plopped down a comm chair.
In the meantime, "WHO" and "WHICH" had teamed up, and snuck AROUND my oh-so-faithful marines, building the new comm chair, and started munching on my own comm chair. My RCBots cheerfully exclaimed "Build an Infantry Portal!" so I put on of those down in the hallway as well, and then got out of the chair, which was getting low on health, to try and move to the other chair. As I got out, the WHO and WHICH devoured me almost instantly.
15 seconds or so later, I spawned back in, to discover that two of my RCBots had decided to go rambo again. The other one I think WOULD have gone rambo, except he had gotten stuck in a corner. I got in the chair, and had him build an armory.
In the meantime, WHO and WHICH had destroyed the original comm chair, and were now happily munching on my one and only resource nozzle. Thank heavens, my ramboing marines were headed in that direction anyway, and the two of them managed to slaughter WHO and WHICH without taking damage. They then asked me to put down a turret factory. I just sighed, and asked them to stay put and gaurd the nozzle.
I returned to my little base, and decided I needed motion tracking to know where the WhichBot team was. I had my base RCBot build it... and as he was building, he gets parasited by a skulk, who had just ducked around a corner, let off the parasite, and then ran away. I was impressed.
While he was building the observatory, my other RCBots had ignored my orders to stay put, and ran off to rambo some more. They encountered WHICHONE and WHO, killed WHO, but one of my ramboing bots got killed by WHICHONE before WHICHONE was shot down by the other. While this stupid little fight was going on, WHICH, apparently the skulk who had earlier parasited my base RCBot, had snuck around to my original base, and was happily munching my resource node. He ate it with ease.
It was at this point that I gave up, recycled my IP, let my team go rambo, got out of the chair, and went to see how long I could survive.
The answer was not long. My bots outlived me, but they have better aim then I do (I'm a better alien player myself... I like melee, too much of a Spray-and-Prayer when it comes to guns). Regardless though, the bots also went down, and it didn't take too long at that.
Console: Quit. Write this post.
I don't know how well the RCBot I gave to the Which Team did as gorge (I forced it to go gorge). I never saw it throughout the game.
I must heap great praise on the WhichBots. Now if only there were some marines that wouldn't run off... if they even just acted like normal 1player RTS game units, just stood around waiting for orders and shot at things in range, that would be better than the RCBots. The RCBots suck. They're like ADHD 12 year olds...
This gets me to wondering: since the WhichBot's AI for skulks seems fairly amazing but they have no support for lerks, gorge, or onos, how well do they fare vs. the RCBot in the later game? (Tough part to test that may be finding a way to get the RCBot to survive to that point).
From what I'm reading, it seems like the RCBot is meant more to fill in for a couple players and round out a server, or to teach newbies the basics of the game. WhichBot seems better for training a squad of marines to play vs. a more teamplay-oriented team. They have their purposes, and despite RCBot being slightly less intelligent I'll still commend Cheeseh for being the first NS botmaker, and for trying to do everything at once (aliens and marines, commanding or on foot).
We're aiming lower on the range of features, but we're trying to do as well as possible within that feature-set. For example, I'd rather not add onos support than have onos support but have them burn the 70 res then get stuck repeatedly.
philmcneal - we haven't see that error in testing yet. Please give us the exact version # of the hlds you're using and the metamod version # you're using. Also, if you're using any other metamod plugins, that'd be useful to try to replicate the problem. I have heard that the older versions of Metamod will crash with the new hlds, so that's the first thing I'd check. We bundle Metamod v1.16 in whichbot-metamod.zip, which should work fine.
The most fun way to play against the WhichBots right now is to have one player gorge for them - it makes it much more challenging to beat them. If you think they're nasty to start with, when they start grabbing carapace and celerity it's much worse. My usual strategy when gorging is to let the bots contain the marines in base and deny them RTs, while I cap a couple of nodes, set up 3x dc and try to get hive 2. Once you get hive 2, depending on the situation, either strengthen hive defenses with ocs and more dcs to protect against jetpackers and build mcs, or go aggressive and try to set off the marine mines as a gorge or by evolving to fade. If they were relying on mines (common against the bots), a wave of 2 or 3 bots coming into the marine base can make a mess.
The nice thing about the bots is that you can have really good games with much fewer people - it takes 3 marines to make them really tick, so with only 4 people you can have a lot of fun. We mainly use them to bulk out the alien team so we can have more people playing at once on the marine team - 8 people can have a pretty solid 7v7 game instead of a 4v4.
bot_wait_for_orders 1
which should stop the bots wandering off on their own as marines.
You might want to try that in your next experiment....
Look for a new report tonight or so.
<a href='http://www.whichbot.com' target='_blank'>www.whichbot.com</a>
c) Edit the file liblist.gam in your Natural Selection directory.
There will be one line that looks like this:
gamedll "dlls\ns.dll"
Delete that line and add a new line:
gamedll "addons\metamod\dlls\metamod.dll"
How do you "edit" this file? I take it you need some kind of program because when I click on liblist.gam it tells me windows can not open this file. Please help.
If you use Notepad, make sure you select "All Files" as the save file type, or it will save liblist.gam.txt in all likelihood.
Words of warning: you'll need DivX 5.05 or higher to see the movie (go to divx.com and get the free player if you don't have divx) and the movie is pretty weighty at about 10M.
Thanks in advance,
--Fox
oh, and philmcneal: just copy a custom.hpk file from one of your other directories. It's generated automatically when you play other games. the server wants it for some reason or another.
And Freak: just tell windows to open the gam files with notepad.
It's fixed in v0.4 (out soon! watch this space).