Zoners 1.6 (latest) problem

Unknown

<div class="IPBDescription">Its wierd</div>Ok this is gonna be a looooong post, the basic gist of it is that Zoner's seems to compile this map fine in 1.3, but creates a leak in 1.6! Rather bizzare, i've already contacted the author, but has anyone else had this problem?

Compile log for 1.3 tools (works)
---------------------------------
hlcsg v2.5.3 rel (Jan  8 2002) (Version 1.3)
Modified by Tony Moore (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (zoner@gearboxsoftware.com)
-----  BEGIN  hlcsg -----
Command line: hlcsg.exe -chart -estimate -texdata 5120 -wadinclude overlord.wad E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f

-= Current hlcsg Settings =-
Name                 |  Setting  |  Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads               [       1 ] [  Varies ]
verbose               [     off ] [     off ]
log                   [      on ] [      on ]
developer             [       0 ] [       0 ]
chart                 [      on ] [     off ]
estimate              [      on ] [     off ]
max texture memory    [ 5242880 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority              [  Normal ] [  Normal ]

noclip                [     off ] [     off ]
null texture stripping[      on ] [      on ]
clipnode economy mode [      on ] [      on ]
onlyents              [     off ] [     off ]
wadtextures           [      on ] [      on ]
skyclip               [      on ] [      on ]
hullfile              [    None ] [    None ]
min surface area      [   0.500 ] [   0.500 ]
brush union threshold [   0.000 ] [   0.000 ]

Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]
[overlord.wad]


entering E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f.map
246 brushes (totalling 1419 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
(97.03 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
(0.24 seconds)
CSGBrush:
(29.92 seconds)

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models              0/400            0/25600    ( 0.0)
planes          24382/32767     487640/655340   (74.4)
vertexes            0/65535          0/786420   ( 0.0)
nodes               0/32767          0/786408   ( 0.0)
texinfos         5401/32767     216040/1310680  (16.5)
faces               0/65535          0/1310700  ( 0.0)
clipnodes           0/32767          0/262136   ( 0.0)
leaves              0/8192           0/229376   ( 0.0)
marksurfaces        0/65535          0/131070   ( 0.0)
surfedges           0/512000         0/2048000  ( 0.0)
edges               0/256000         0/1024000  ( 0.0)
texdata          [variable]          0/5242880  ( 0.0)
lightdata        [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0)
visdata          [variable]          0/2097152  ( 0.0)
entdata          [variable]          0/524288   ( 0.0)
0 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 703680 bytes ===
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\halflife.wad
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\tfc\tfc2.wad
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\tfc\tfc.wad
Embedding textures from WAD File [\program files\zhlt25\zhlt.wad] into BSP
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\liquids.wad
Using WAD File: \games\half-life\valve\decals.wad
Embedding textures from WAD File [\games\half-life\tfc\overlord.wad] into BSP
added 3 additional animating textures.
Texture usage is at 4.47 mb (of 5.00 mb MAX)
134.60 seconds elapsed [2m 14s]

-----   END   hlcsg -----



hlbsp v2.5.3 rel (Jan  8 2002) (Version 1.3)
Modified by Tony Moore (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (zoner@gearboxsoftware.com)
-----  BEGIN  hlbsp -----
Command line: hlbsp.exe -chart -estimate E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f

-= Current hlbsp Settings =-
Name               |  Setting  |  Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads             [       1 ] [  Varies ]
verbose             [     off ] [     off ]
log                 [      on ] [      on ]
developer           [       0 ] [       0 ]
chart               [      on ] [     off ]
estimate            [      on ] [     off ]
max texture memory  [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority            [  Normal ] [  Normal ]

noclip              [     off ] [     off ]
nofill              [     off ] [     off ]
null tex. stripping [      on ] [      on ]
notjunc             [     off ] [     off ]
subdivide size      [     240 ] [     240 ] (Min 64) (Max 240)
max node size       [    1024 ] [    1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)


BSP generation successful, writing portal file 'E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f.prt'

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models            271/400        17344/25600    (67.8)
planes          24382/32767     487640/655340   (74.4)
vertexes        18015/65535     216180/786420   (27.5)
nodes            9173/32767     220152/786408   (28.0)
texinfos         5401/32767     216040/1310680  (16.5)
faces           13653/65535     273060/1310700  (20.8)
clipnodes       26011/32767     208088/262136   (79.4)
leaves           5804/8192      162512/229376   (70.8)
marksurfaces    18150/65535      36300/131070   (27.7)
surfedges       62311/512000    249244/2048000  (12.2)
edges           33443/256000    133772/1024000  (13.1)
texdata          [variable]    1361364/4194304  (32.5)
lightdata        [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0)
visdata          [variable]          0/2097152  ( 0.0)
entdata          [variable]     132009/524288   (25.2)
162 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 3713705 bytes ===
54.53 seconds elapsed

-----   END   hlbsp -----

Compile log for 1.6 tools (leaks!)
---------------------------------
hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.6 (May 19 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
-----  BEGIN  hlcsg -----
Command line: hlcsg.exe -chart -estimate -texdata 5120 -wadinclude overlord.wad E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f
Entering E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f.map

Current hlcsg Settings
Name                 |  Setting  |  Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads               [       1 ] [  Varies ]
verbose               [     off ] [     off ]
log                   [      on ] [      on ]
developer             [       0 ] [       0 ]
chart                 [      on ] [     off ]
estimate              [      on ] [     off ]
max texture memory    [ 5242880 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority              [  Normal ] [  Normal ]

noclip                [     off ] [     off ]
null texture stripping[      on ] [      on ]
clipnode economy mode [      on ] [      on ]
onlyents              [     off ] [     off ]
wadtextures           [      on ] [      on ]
skyclip               [      on ] [      on ]
hullfile              [    None ] [    None ]
min surface area      [   0.500 ] [   0.500 ]
brush union threshold [   0.000 ] [   0.000 ]

Warning: no wadfiles are specified in configuration '' --
Using map wadfile configuration
Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]
[overlord.wad]

315 brushes (totalling 1843 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
(91.13 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
(0.23 seconds)
CSGBrush:
(29.81 seconds)

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models              0/400            0/25600    ( 0.0%)
planes          23870/32767     477400/655340   (72.8%)
vertexes            0/65535          0/786420   ( 0.0%)
nodes               0/32767          0/786408   ( 0.0%)
texinfos         5401/32767     216040/1310680  (16.5%)
faces               0/65535          0/1310700  ( 0.0%)
clipnodes           0/32767          0/262136   ( 0.0%)
leaves              0/8192           0/229376   ( 0.0%)
marksurfaces        0/65535          0/131070   ( 0.0%)
surfedges           0/512000         0/2048000  ( 0.0%)
edges               0/256000         0/1024000  ( 0.0%)
texdata          [variable]          0/5242880  ( 0.0%)
lightdata        [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0%)
visdata          [variable]          0/2097152  ( 0.0%)
entdata          [variable]          0/524288   ( 0.0%)
0 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 693440 bytes ===

Using Wadfile: \games\half-life\valve\halflife.wad
- Contains 38 used textures, 23.90 percent of map (3116 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \games\half-life\tfc\tfc2.wad
- Contains 79 used textures, 49.69 percent of map (395 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \games\half-life\tfc\tfc.wad
- Contains 15 used textures, 9.43 percent of map (279 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \program files\zhlt25\zhlt.wad
- Contains 2 used textures, 1.26 percent of map (3 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \games\half-life\valve\liquids.wad
- Contains 2 used textures, 1.26 percent of map (32 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \games\half-life\valve\decals.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (222 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \games\half-life\tfc\overlord.wad
- Contains 23 used textures, 14.47 percent of map (23 textures in wad)

added 3 additional animating textures.
Texture usage is at 4.47 mb (of 5.00 mb MAX)
129.53 seconds elapsed [2m 9s]

-----   END   hlcsg -----



hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.6 (Jun  3 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
-----  BEGIN  hlbsp -----
Command line: hlbsp.exe -chart -estimate E:\Hammer34\maps\TFC\overlord\overlord_ab_f

Current hlbsp Settings
Name               |  Setting  |  Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads             [       1 ] [  Varies ]
verbose             [     off ] [     off ]
log                 [      on ] [      on ]
developer           [       0 ] [       0 ]
chart               [      on ] [     off ]
estimate            [      on ] [     off ]
max texture memory  [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority            [  Normal ] [  Normal ]

noclip              [     off ] [     off ]
nofill              [     off ] [     off ]
null tex. stripping [      on ] [      on ]
notjunc             [     off ] [     off ]
subdivide size      [     240 ] [     240 ] (Min 64) (Max 240)
max node size       [    1024 ] [    1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)


Warning: === LEAK in hull 0 ===
Entity light @ (-2084,-374, 296)
Error:
 A LEAK is a hole in the map, where the inside of it is exposed to the
(unwanted) outside region.  The entity listed in the error is just a helpful
indication of where the beginning of the leak pointfile starts, so the
beginning of the line can be quickly found and traced to until reaching the
outside. Unless this entity is accidentally on the outside of the map, it
probably should not be deleted.  Some complex rotating objects entities need
their origins outside the map.  To deal with these, just enclose the origin
brush with a solid world brush

Leak pointfile generated

Warning: === LEAK in hull 2 ===
Entity light @ (-1040, 144, 424)
Warning: === LEAK in hull 3 ===
Entity light @ (-1040, 144, 424)

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models            271/400        17344/25600    (67.8%)
planes          23870/32767     477400/655340   (72.8%)
vertexes        21581/65535     258972/786420   (32.9%)
nodes           10565/32767     253560/786408   (32.2%)
texinfos         5401/32767     216040/1310680  (16.5%)
faces           17153/65535     343060/1310700  (26.2%)
clipnodes       29947/32767     239576/262136   (91.4%)
leaves           7316/8192      204848/229376   (89.3%)
marksurfaces    23779/65535      47558/131070   (36.3%)
surfedges       79318/512000    317272/2048000  (15.5%)
edges           43010/256000    172040/1024000  (16.8%)
texdata          [variable]    1361364/4194304  (32.5%)
lightdata        [variable]          0/4194304  ( 0.0%)
visdata          [variable]          0/2097152  ( 0.0%)
entdata          [variable]     132009/524288   (25.2%)
162 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 4041043 bytes ===
56.68 seconds elapsed

-----   END   hlbsp -----

---------------------------

Also strange is that if you look at the compiled chart data, you can clearly see that clipnodes is almost maxed out in 1.6 and various other values are different to what 1.3 created.

I've created a small '<a href="http://www.jobsmaps.com/other/files/compiled.htm" target="_blank">compiled.htm</a>' table that shows, highlighted in yellow, the values which are different in 1.6.

Thanks for any help with this!

Jobabob
aka Edward Steele

nrby

Fix the leak then recompile, the clipping hull won't like huge holes in the map

Unknown

Fix the leak... Did you even read my post?

nrby

Sorry, i was being sarcastic.

Zoners tools can report fake leaks in odd geometry, there has been a bug resident in the compile tools of all HL and quake 1/2 based tools that can report a bogus leak. Run the map with pointfile and follow the line, it may very well run straight through one of your brushes.
Sometimes verts that appear to be on the grid are not actually snapped, or do not meet the other brushes on the 1 or .5 snap (which may require you changing the brush union threshold, but its overkill for this problem)

[ed sp]



<!--EDIT|n@rby|June 13 2002,10:22-->

DOOManiac

If you have some odd-shaped brushes it could be making a leak even though its a perfectly legitimate brush. I had this problem on my map a few days ago. CSG was just insisting the brush was a leak, though the wc error report didn't mention the brush like it always does. it was a pretty simple shape to, just an inward curve (using 2 brushes, so no, it wasn't a problem of the line crossing 3 times or whatever its called). Ended up just deleting it and doing something else to fix it, cause no matter how many times i retried it i just got LEAK LEAK LEAK...

on another note, yesterday I had a very strange error indeed. CSG was insisting that i had mixed face contents ({blue and CLIP on same brush) when in fact I had no brushes like this. then it somehow lost the texturing of the brush in question entirely, just having no texture at all. i retextured the brush and now its fine...

wacky open source tools! :P

Unknown

it is probably because of these crazy concave holes (wtf is a convex hole <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> )in the ground i'd been making in a 'bombed-town' scenario.

I think i'll just use 1.3 until this map is over, much simpler  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

Yamazaki

Fake leaks can also occur over time in geometry you haven't changed between compiles. I had a spiralling staircase in a map that suddenly generated a leak several compiles after I added it. I had not touched it between compiles, and the pointfile drew a line right through the seam between two brushes. The brushes were properly snapped to the grid at the points they met, so it wasn't that.

In the end I had to turn the triangular brushes into trapezoids, so that each segment met at two vertices and not just one, and this seemed to convince the compiler there was no leak.

My only guess as to why this was happening is that CSG manipulates brushes differently depending upon its neighbours. So if you move a table around in a room it will affect all the other brushes in the room and adjacent rooms. Somehow moving the furniture around made CSG screw up the staircase.

RhoadsToNowhere

I know I've had the problem of fake leaks a lot in older versions of QuArK, but that doesn't seem to be your problem as the file is stored in a directory called "Hammer34".  Besides, that problem has (apparently) been fixed in the current version of QuArK.  There's really not much else that I can say besides just screwing around with the brushwork a little and seeing if it goes away.

Merkaba

Job, dunno if you knew this or not...

The map you compiled with the earlier tool versions reported 246 brushes excluded from clipping hulls, but the map you compiled with v1.6 reported 315.

Are you SURE the map is the same in both compiles? If its not, I'm not sure how you can use those results as solid evidence of a problem.

Unknown

It is the same map i'm compiling each time, I'll send it to you thru e-mail/ICQ if you want a look.

That's an interesting thing to notice mind, there's definately some different in how CSG works between versions.

Or maybe i'm just incredibly unlucky in this case.