From what I understand about my limited knowledge of Linux:
Linux itself is a 'kernel', which is the meat and potatos of an operating system, how it manages files and such. This kernel is encorporated into the different Linux 'running thingies' <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> For exmaple: Linux Redhat, Linux Mandrake. Both of these are Linux because they use the Linux kernel, but look different. Both can run the same type of files.
I used it for a while and found you can just choose a complete look for it. There are different environments called Gnome and KDE i think, they're both quite nice and most of the distributions have them. I particulary like the fact you can run 4 desktops all at top priority, although it did take me half an hour to find 'My Computer' <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
edited May 2003
download it and install it, its free... but there is a realy cool version of linux out there.. download knoppix, its one CD. You can simply boot with this CD and you have linux. No need of install, your HD wont be touched. Remove the CD and there is no trace of linux on your PC... try it
I forgot, with a programm called WINE you can play HL under Linux, even Cheating death works...
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
edited May 2003
ok /me = CS major and I do most of my work in linux <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (my gaming i still primarily done in win)
ok, yes there are MANY distrobutions of linux (aka distros) Slack ware, redhat, mandrake etc etc etc etc the list goes on. Most people will swear by one, ignore them they all have ups and downs (the one we use is a cobbled together thing from our sysadmin <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->0
Now, as for what it 'looks like'
linux looks like a command prompt <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
there are then 'window managers' that give you a gui interface. (the window manager for windows is explorer, it is actualy possible, atleast in XP, to change it to things like lightstep <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
now window managers also run the gamet <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> there are ones that will look exactly like winds (sorta pointless to me). There are 'newbie' ones like KDE (KDE really isn't that good)
[EDIT] Oh and wine blows <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, it is nice when it works but it is so fuggen hard to get to work it is often not worth it. We have JKII running ussing wine and thats about it. We run HL in windows <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> [/edit] then there are things like: Blackbox, FluxBox, windowmaker, etc etc etc the list still goes on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
some of them are very minamlistic (blackbox/flux box) some are not.
I personaly use BlackBox and FluxBox (fluxbox is basicaly black box with some fun toys thrown in, such as esay key bindings to handel multiple desktops, run programs etc. and also you can set up your menus (much like the start menu except cleaner and you get at it my right clicking on your 'desktop')
yah...
there is alot to it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ooooh, the itch to post a picture from your smiley-pattern is almost too overpowering to deny...... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll start by saying I'm not exactly a Linux expert, but I've used it a little bit. I'll say basically the same as others have already said - Linux itself is just the core of the operating system, and the nice windows-like thing you see on your screen is simply a user interface for Linux. It can look just about however you want.
If you want Linux that looks like Windows, you could always try Lindows. I never tried it but I heard it has some nice features and is relatively newbie-friendly.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
meh, never found ANYthing good about lindows.
Again I would personaly go this route:
Redhat (you gotta buy it) b/c it comes with TECH SUPPORT if you have friends who are willing to help, then you will probably be installing debian or slackware ore something. Honestly poke areound real tech forums and ask about <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for Windowmanagers...
I would honestly suggest simply ussing KDE or Blackbox, or Fluxbox. They are well known, simple to use and have some nice toys (I ofcourse would suggest black/fluxbox)
oh, and /me points at job: Don't listen to people like that.
When you're talking operating systems you care about stability, compatability, etc.
Don't forget that linux is open source, which is fun. I seriously reduced page faults in a linux kernel I worked with. Fine it was an assignment to alter the virtual memory code and really wasn't at all hard but it was still fun.
Here's my Linux desktop - It's basically KDE with the Mandrake Galaxy theme. There's the KDE menu in the foreground, the KDE Control Center behind it, a download minimised in the taskbar, and Karamba showing the weather, etc. in the desktop.
As a previous poster said, there are so many themes and desktop environments for linux that there is no "standard Linux desktop", but I think mine looks pretty cool :-)
(Sorry for the crappy quality - JPEG compression is horrible)
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Gwahir+May 3 2003, 12:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gwahir @ May 3 2003, 12:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what's the point of pics?
When you're talking operating systems you care about stability, compatability, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the purpose of this topic, I just wanted to see it. I don't care how it runs.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
lol, hehe give me a few <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.netmeister.org/screenshots/' target='_blank'>Pics of Black Box</a> <a href='http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/themes.php' target='_blank'>Fluxbox themes</a>
both of them can look exactly the same if you want them to
im convinced any OS has rudimentary capabilities, so appearance grows over cabapbility. what i care most about is customizable appearance and software/hardware compatibility, both of which are served wonderfully by windows XP.
Its also pretty cool that u can have ur bootup screen in any resolution u want <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (like in 1600x1200 instead of the 320x200 of dos)
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
O...kay. Here we go. Long-time Linux user, back from the 'unpleasant' Debian days (when I was thrown in by a friend as 'shock therapy' to get my brain off Win3.11.. I believe I was tossed in one before the Slink or Potato release).
Okay. Basic, standard Linux doesn't even need a screen-grab. You can paint it in your imagination. Imagine a black screen. Good. Now... grey text, reading <username>@<hostname>:/home/<username>$
That's it. For example, I get
<b>blah@oswald:/home/blah$</b>
as my prompt, if my account name is 'blah', and I'm in my home directory on my machine.. which I named Oswald. Wow... that's it. That's Linux.
If you want to go into pointy-clicky land, you need something along the lines of XFree86, a GUI shell to make it 'easier' on end-users. THAT, you can make look and act HOWEVER you want it to. People have gone and made full 3D interfaces for X, requiring the funky eyewear to use. Others, OpenGL worlds just utilizing their 3D video cards.
Oh.. and as another note. Windows started from the ease-of-use end. Designed so idiots could sit down and make the computer do something along the lines of what they wanted. Linux started from the usability end. It was hard to learn, but you could do ANYTHING. They've each been pressing toward one another, trying to fill the gap and end up with an easy-to-use, super-powerful OS. Windows took a bit of a detour with Whistler (xp) and made the computer back into a playpen full of flashy lights and nice noises, where you can't unintentionally kill anything without REALLY working at it. S'why most 'geeks' swapped over to Linux, and most who actually need to use the computer (rather than a blinky, flashy toaster.. that's what Macs are for, after all) followed.
Okay.. all that aside. For a Linux beginner with little experience/knowledge of computers, I'd suggest purchasing the latest RedHat distribution off the shelf. As noted above, it comes with tech support in case you get lost. You likely won't, but it's there. For those with a bit more confidence (and/or less cash) you can download the same thing for free from the RedHat site, or any number of mirrors, completely legally. You just don't get the tech support. You probably won't need it anyway, with how much progress they've made with the installer. Hint though... don't let it install GRUB, force it to use LILO. MUCH easier to fix if it breaks.
New users, avoid: Mandrake (kernel instabilities in the default, must be replaced for a fully stable OS), Debian (server distro, steep learning curve), Slackware (my personal distro, but again a steep learning curve), Gentoo (PITA), and most definitely LINDOWS. It's a POS. Avoid like the plague.
Also Linux: <img src='http://www.simics.com/images/screen-8cpu-linux.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Still Linux: <img src='http://cuvier.center.osakafu-u.ac.jp/tp600-linux/screenshot.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The thing is, Linux can look like a LOT of different things. There are lots of different GUI's built onto the command prompt style shell... (I'm sure that's not entirely accurate, but its the general idea)
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Which is why, in my post, I warned away new Linux users from Mandrake. Supposedly it's 'extremely friendly'.. which it is, when it installs. But there can be all kinds of problems based on hardware installed, which require you to recompile the kernel (rebuild the 'heart' of the OS.. something that isn't *too* hard to do once you're used to Linux, and most do regardless to tailor the OS specifically to their hardware.. making it run faster by cutting out all the stuff they won't ever use) to solve.
RedHat has gotten to the point where, with most hardware, you can just keep clicking 'next', and eventually end up with a running Linux system. For 3D applications, it comes with some basic ATI support in the kernel (heart of the OS) itself, but for the most speed, you need to download the drivers from ATI and follow the instructions to install them. No pointy-clicky, you have to actually type at the terminal to get it to work. nVidia cards haven't even come with that nicety, requiring you to download the Detonators from their site and install them according to the instructions before you get a viable GUI that doesn't, literally, frameskip.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
SuSE is payware... you can't download a fully working copy. All they have available is a 'live demo' that boots from CD, and will not install.
And remember all the 'fully customizable' up above? You can make Linux look like whatever you want. Including a different distro. For the most part, they're the same thing. Some are easier to install, others come with better defaults, still more have kernel patches intended to make it run better (in the case of Mandrake) but fail. Just change the graphics a little. Choose a different window manager. Heck, a different window manager theme will make it look totally different, in under five seconds. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Grab the newest RH and use it. Easily the best beginner distro out there.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
german is ok, even french.. i just want linux on my computer.. i hate M$, but cannot only say that i hate them and do nothing, now i change to linux, i know that my favorite game works with WINE(i mean HL) and thats enough for me...
it is actualy possible, atleast in XP, to change it to things like lightstep <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> what's lightstep?
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+May 3 2003, 11:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ May 3 2003, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Others, OpenGL worlds just utilizing their 3D video cards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> omg omg omg omg omg omg link me! ive been dreaming of a 3d operating system for years! (almost wrote one for tribes1, but it could only edit text files)
and i assume the prompt thingy is a lot like dos, but with different commands, where is a tutorial to learn those commands? should i just google it?
Comments
you can get linux to look pretty much like windows, minus the icons and spiffy animations
or its just a command prompt.
Linux itself is a 'kernel', which is the meat and potatos of an operating system, how it manages files and such.
This kernel is encorporated into the different Linux 'running thingies' <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For exmaple: Linux Redhat, Linux Mandrake. Both of these are Linux because they use the Linux kernel, but look different. Both can run the same type of files.
right right??
I forgot, with a programm called WINE you can play HL under Linux, even Cheating death works...
ok, yes there are MANY distrobutions of linux (aka distros) Slack ware, redhat, mandrake etc etc etc etc the list goes on. Most people will swear by one, ignore them they all have ups and downs (the one we use is a cobbled together thing from our sysadmin <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->0
Now, as for what it 'looks like'
linux looks like a command prompt <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
there are then 'window managers' that give you a gui interface. (the window manager for windows is explorer, it is actualy possible, atleast in XP, to change it to things like lightstep <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
now window managers also run the gamet <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
there are ones that will look exactly like winds (sorta pointless to me). There are 'newbie' ones like KDE (KDE really isn't that good)
[EDIT] Oh and wine blows <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, it is nice when it works but it is so fuggen hard to get to work it is often not worth it. We have JKII running ussing wine and thats about it. We run HL in windows <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> [/edit]
then there are things like:
Blackbox, FluxBox, windowmaker, etc etc etc the list still goes on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
some of them are very minamlistic (blackbox/flux box) some are not.
I personaly use BlackBox and FluxBox (fluxbox is basicaly black box with some fun toys thrown in, such as esay key bindings to handel multiple desktops, run programs etc. and also you can set up your menus (much like the start menu except cleaner and you get at it my right clicking on your 'desktop')
yah...
there is alot to it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll start by saying I'm not exactly a Linux expert, but I've used it a little bit. I'll say basically the same as others have already said - Linux itself is just the core of the operating system, and the nice windows-like thing you see on your screen is simply a user interface for Linux. It can look just about however you want.
Again I would personaly go this route:
Redhat (you gotta buy it) b/c it comes with TECH SUPPORT
if you have friends who are willing to help, then you will probably be installing debian or slackware ore something. Honestly poke areound real tech forums and ask about <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for Windowmanagers...
I would honestly suggest simply ussing KDE or Blackbox, or Fluxbox. They are well known, simple to use and have some nice toys (I ofcourse would suggest black/fluxbox)
oh, and /me points at job: Don't listen to people like that.
<img src='http://www.freebsd.org/gifs/dae_up3.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
When you're talking operating systems you care about stability, compatability, etc.
Don't forget that linux is open source, which is fun. I seriously reduced page faults in a linux kernel I worked with. Fine it was an assignment to alter the virtual memory code and really wasn't at all hard but it was still fun.
As a previous poster said, there are so many themes and desktop environments for linux that there is no "standard Linux desktop", but I think mine looks pretty cool :-)
(Sorry for the crappy quality - JPEG compression is horrible)
When you're talking operating systems you care about stability, compatability, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the purpose of this topic, I just wanted to see it. I don't care how it runs.
<a href='http://www.netmeister.org/screenshots/' target='_blank'>Pics of Black Box</a>
<a href='http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net/themes.php' target='_blank'>Fluxbox themes</a>
both of them can look exactly the same if you want them to
For myself, I would never care about an OS's appearance over its capabilities, to each his own.
Long-time Linux user, back from the 'unpleasant' Debian days (when I was thrown in by a friend as 'shock therapy' to get my brain off Win3.11.. I believe I was tossed in one before the Slink or Potato release).
Okay. Basic, standard Linux doesn't even need a screen-grab. You can paint it in your imagination.
Imagine a black screen. Good. Now... grey text, reading
<username>@<hostname>:/home/<username>$
That's it.
For example, I get
<b>blah@oswald:/home/blah$</b>
as my prompt, if my account name is 'blah', and I'm in my home directory on my machine.. which I named Oswald.
Wow... that's it. That's Linux.
If you want to go into pointy-clicky land, you need something along the lines of XFree86, a GUI shell to make it 'easier' on end-users. THAT, you can make look and act HOWEVER you want it to. People have gone and made full 3D interfaces for X, requiring the funky eyewear to use. Others, OpenGL worlds just utilizing their 3D video cards.
Oh.. and as another note. Windows started from the ease-of-use end. Designed so idiots could sit down and make the computer do something along the lines of what they wanted. Linux started from the usability end. It was hard to learn, but you could do ANYTHING. They've each been pressing toward one another, trying to fill the gap and end up with an easy-to-use, super-powerful OS. Windows took a bit of a detour with Whistler (xp) and made the computer back into a playpen full of flashy lights and nice noises, where you can't unintentionally kill anything without REALLY working at it.
S'why most 'geeks' swapped over to Linux, and most who actually need to use the computer (rather than a blinky, flashy toaster.. that's what Macs are for, after all) followed.
Okay.. all that aside. For a Linux beginner with little experience/knowledge of computers, I'd suggest purchasing the latest RedHat distribution off the shelf. As noted above, it comes with tech support in case you get lost. You likely won't, but it's there.
For those with a bit more confidence (and/or less cash) you can download the same thing for free from the RedHat site, or any number of mirrors, completely legally. You just don't get the tech support. You probably won't need it anyway, with how much progress they've made with the installer. Hint though... don't let it install GRUB, force it to use LILO. MUCH easier to fix if it breaks.
New users, avoid: Mandrake (kernel instabilities in the default, must be replaced for a fully stable OS), Debian (server distro, steep learning curve), Slackware (my personal distro, but again a steep learning curve), Gentoo (PITA), and most definitely LINDOWS. It's a POS. Avoid like the plague.
<img src='http://www.thestuff.net/temp/linux.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Also Linux:
<img src='http://www.simics.com/images/screen-8cpu-linux.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Still Linux:
<img src='http://cuvier.center.osakafu-u.ac.jp/tp600-linux/screenshot.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The thing is, Linux can look like a LOT of different things. There are lots of different GUI's built onto the command prompt style shell... (I'm sure that's not entirely accurate, but its the general idea)
RedHat has gotten to the point where, with most hardware, you can just keep clicking 'next', and eventually end up with a running Linux system.
For 3D applications, it comes with some basic ATI support in the kernel (heart of the OS) itself, but for the most speed, you need to download the drivers from ATI and follow the instructions to install them. No pointy-clicky, you have to actually type at the terminal to get it to work. nVidia cards haven't even come with that nicety, requiring you to download the Detonators from their site and install them according to the instructions before you get a viable GUI that doesn't, literally, frameskip.
But from what ive seen redhat is ugly... perhaps i will use SuSe.. well.. i dont know what i could use now, mandrake seemed cool to me
And remember all the 'fully customizable' up above? You can make Linux look like whatever you want. Including a different distro. For the most part, they're the same thing. Some are easier to install, others come with better defaults, still more have kernel patches intended to make it run better (in the case of Mandrake) but fail. Just change the graphics a little. Choose a different window manager. Heck, a different window manager theme will make it look totally different, in under five seconds. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Grab the newest RH and use it. Easily the best beginner distro out there.
it is actualy possible, atleast in XP, to change it to things like lightstep <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
what's lightstep?
omg omg omg omg omg omg link me! ive been dreaming of a 3d operating system for years! (almost wrote one for tribes1, but it could only edit text files)
and i assume the prompt thingy is a lot like dos, but with different commands, where is a tutorial to learn those commands? should i just google it?