Movement Chambers
Ratfire
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and why they can come first</div> I agree pretty much with everything that has been said under the Sensory Chamber post. However, I would like to contradict one point. On public servers, aside from locating the hive or sieging, how often do you actually see a Commander using scan effectively? I'd say almost never.
However, that still doesn't justify getting sensory chambers first, mainly because aliens need the attack bonuses at the beginning of the game to stay competitive. Now I'm not saying that D chambers aren't the best way to go, just that they don't have to be the only way to go.
<i>Celerity</i> allows you to increase movement speed significantly. This becomes very important for Skulks early on, because Frontiersman are so slow comparatively. Not only does celerity allow a Skulk to get to more places faster in the level (which is especially effective in the larger levels for controlling Frontiersman expansion) but it also adds greater confusion during Skulk attacks because faster moving objects are more difficult to track. In addition, celerity somewhat reduces the one major advantage that Frontiersman have, corridors and hallways. These areas are deathtraps for Skulks because there is nowhere to run, and no way to combat Frontiersman range. Celerity decreases the amount of time that a Skulk has to stay in a hallway, as well as reducing the amount of time it takes to get to an enemy if you have to engage one in this situation.
<i>Adrenaline</i> sees much greater benefits later in the game, however it's uses can't be discounted with only 1 hive. First of all, it allows Skulks to continually bite. This doesn't mean much against Frontiersman soldiers, but against buildings, Skulks no longer run out of stamina, and don't have to stop biting. This also gives the Skulks an advantage if they are attacked while attacking a building, as they will have a good amount of stamina to engage a Frontiersman. Lerks, when you reach that point, also receive a strong benefit from Adrenaline. Playing Lerk almost requires you to have the adrenaline bonus in order to be able to effectively fly and attack. It also allows for a much more continuous stream of fire if you are attacking something like a phase gate from long distance. Even the gorge benefits from the movement chamber. If he didn't celerity to move faster, reach build points sooner, and escape danger, than he can use adrenaline to more effectively heal buildings and Skulks early in the game.
<i>Silence</i> is really the effective stalking that cloaking can't be. Since most Frontiersman don't scan, and since motion can't track you if you're not moving, all you have to do is above a door or hallway then drop down after a group of Frontiersman passes you. No sound means no warning, which is far better than having to deal with the decloaking noise as well as your footsteps. Plus, if you like moving and stalking, it’s the perfect way to sneak up behind an unsuspecting team that has no way of hearing you. It's even possible that silence would be effective with a gorge. How many times have you played Frontiersman and heard "I hear the gorge out there, hold on a sec, I'm going to take him out"
Ratfire
However, that still doesn't justify getting sensory chambers first, mainly because aliens need the attack bonuses at the beginning of the game to stay competitive. Now I'm not saying that D chambers aren't the best way to go, just that they don't have to be the only way to go.
<i>Celerity</i> allows you to increase movement speed significantly. This becomes very important for Skulks early on, because Frontiersman are so slow comparatively. Not only does celerity allow a Skulk to get to more places faster in the level (which is especially effective in the larger levels for controlling Frontiersman expansion) but it also adds greater confusion during Skulk attacks because faster moving objects are more difficult to track. In addition, celerity somewhat reduces the one major advantage that Frontiersman have, corridors and hallways. These areas are deathtraps for Skulks because there is nowhere to run, and no way to combat Frontiersman range. Celerity decreases the amount of time that a Skulk has to stay in a hallway, as well as reducing the amount of time it takes to get to an enemy if you have to engage one in this situation.
<i>Adrenaline</i> sees much greater benefits later in the game, however it's uses can't be discounted with only 1 hive. First of all, it allows Skulks to continually bite. This doesn't mean much against Frontiersman soldiers, but against buildings, Skulks no longer run out of stamina, and don't have to stop biting. This also gives the Skulks an advantage if they are attacked while attacking a building, as they will have a good amount of stamina to engage a Frontiersman. Lerks, when you reach that point, also receive a strong benefit from Adrenaline. Playing Lerk almost requires you to have the adrenaline bonus in order to be able to effectively fly and attack. It also allows for a much more continuous stream of fire if you are attacking something like a phase gate from long distance. Even the gorge benefits from the movement chamber. If he didn't celerity to move faster, reach build points sooner, and escape danger, than he can use adrenaline to more effectively heal buildings and Skulks early in the game.
<i>Silence</i> is really the effective stalking that cloaking can't be. Since most Frontiersman don't scan, and since motion can't track you if you're not moving, all you have to do is above a door or hallway then drop down after a group of Frontiersman passes you. No sound means no warning, which is far better than having to deal with the decloaking noise as well as your footsteps. Plus, if you like moving and stalking, it’s the perfect way to sneak up behind an unsuspecting team that has no way of hearing you. It's even possible that silence would be effective with a gorge. How many times have you played Frontiersman and heard "I hear the gorge out there, hold on a sec, I'm going to take him out"
Ratfire
Comments
"Old newb tactics die hard"
just wait till 1.1 then disscuss what ever you want
"Old newb tactics die hard"
just wait till 1.1 then disscuss what ever you want <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but I have no idea how 1.1 changes things - could someone point me to a thread containing this info or explain it to me?
And for Ratfire's point about celerity & skulks - it also can confuse Frontiersmen into wondering exactly how many skulks they have to deal with. Conceivably one skulk with max speed upgrade could rush about attacking from different entrances, points, etc. - similar to those werewolves in DOG SOLDIERS: (not an actual quote) "Have we killed any of those beasties or do they just have hundreds of them???"
Of course that doesn't work once motion detectors kick in...
"Old newb tactics die hard"
just wait till 1.1 then disscuss what ever you want <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Nightcrawler has sour grapes because movement first is more viable than sensory first (both less viable than defense first as stated by the original poster)
I sometimes try to challenge my team to use movement (or even sensory) first if the marines are clearly not particularly good, as it can be really good fun (and of course a challenge because 9 bullets can get fired off REALLY fast!)
As for "old newb tactics die hard": that really IS sour grapes. Ratfire has posted a well presented, sensible point, acknowlegding also that DMS is (sadly) the BEST way to go in 1.04, and he makes good points about the advantages of movement chambers. Admittedly, it's a little redundant, as those who play movement first are typically those in my situation who only do it when they think they have a chance of surviving long enough for a good game with that upgrade.
Remember kids, always ask the person who pays the bills before you plant the movement chamber!
"Old newb tactics die hard"
just wait till 1.1 then disscuss what ever you want <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but I have no idea how 1.1 changes things - could someone point me to a thread containing this info or explain it to me?
And for Ratfire's point about celerity & skulks - it also can confuse Frontiersmen into wondering exactly how many skulks they have to deal with. Conceivably one skulk with max speed upgrade could rush about attacking from different entrances, points, etc. - similar to those werewolves in DOG SOLDIERS: (not an actual quote) "Have we killed any of those beasties or do they just have hundreds of them???"
Of course that doesn't work once motion detectors kick in... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In 1.1 sensory and movement chambers get a few more bonuses. That's confirmed. It remains to be seen whether these inherent abilities will be more useful than DCs' regeneration...
The other thing is: I think (I <i>think</i>, don't quote me on this) that alien upgrades may become independent of chambers in 1.1. That would mean that the build order doesn't matter.
that quote was made beacuse no matter what you say poeple will stick to their old tactics. People are soo used to defence that suggesting another chamber is instantly flamed and lased with personal attacks from poeple like roobubba. The only thing that will make people try new tactics is a patch. not because it improves anything but because it gives poeple a reason to try new things without being banned, kicked, and llamma. Any experimentation is being repressed.
Like he says....mixing it up can lead to some excedingly good games, and as long as the alien team is good enough to stop them from locking down 2 hives, preferably not even letting them get one. movement is a wheeze.
nothing quite like dropping down from the roof and chasing a marine with silence....
still its the gorges choice, so you have to adjust your playing technique accordingly. if you have movement, you cant be as sloppy a player as you can when u have carapace.