Gah, that kind of machine must have something wrong with it. It's either super expensive or takes too much energy to be effective. On the other hand IF it works, it has some bad side effects too: because of infinite oil resources, people stop developing cold fusion and we never get pollution free energy <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
feel free to talk about it ... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I read about that too somewhere. I think its amazing and you get good minerals out of it too.
Wow! This tottaly solves our landfill problems. We jus send out rubbish/trash to these plants instead of burning it or burying it in the ground. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hmmm , last similar thing I heard was a chemical process changing most plastic bags into gas (pure octane) in a violent catalysis.
This oil turkey isn't absurd , after all part of the oil we have now was made from turkey guts... pressurized organic matter tends to form oil , as alcanes are the most stable carbon/hydrogen products.
The process is efficent [QUOTE] Thermal depolymerization, Appel says, has proved to be 85 percent energy efficient for complex feedstocks, such as turkey offal: "That means for every 100 Btus in the feedstock, we use only 15 Btus to run the process." He contends the efficiency is even better for relatively dry raw materials, such as plastics.[QUOTE]
Seems genuine to me - the concept was there for a long time, now someone managed to break it down to an efficient system.
Basically, this has the potential to transform our geopolitic and geoeconomic (not to mention the ecologic) situation drastically. Not only does it solve parts of the nagging Middle East issues, it basically removes oil from the political equation - <i>every</i> country on this planet produces too much garbage. It will also have a tremendous impact on the economy, because the big oil corps become all of the sudden purposeless, which is possibly the biggest danger - let's hope that BP & co. don't simply buy the patents and lock them away.
I'd be interested in how far this system is decentralizeable. Imagine bringing your garbage to a small TDP down the street and getting a canister of gasoline in return.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jobabob+Apr 27 2003, 10:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jobabob @ Apr 27 2003, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If this was truly a 'miracle of science', then surely there'd be more media coverage? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My thoughts excactly. I just can't believe that I am living in a time when a machine that produces energy and minerals and whatnot out of garbage has been invented.
But if it's real, I say W00t! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The media is renowed for ignoring innovation. There was no TV broadcast about usenet, the first flight of the Wrights was largely ignored by the press, and it took months until someone wrote an article about Daimlers 'Benzinkutsche' (the first car) - all for the same reason: "Impossible! Let's don't ridicule ourselves by covering it."
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Apr 27 2003, 12:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Apr 27 2003, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not publically traded yet. I am going to be tossing more than a little cash into this company the day they go public...
What an amazing article. Be sure to read the whole thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's exactly what I said when I first read it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Glad someone else posted it here since it was getting ignored in the energy sources thread.
In a way it's a little dissapointing. One of the things I was looking forward to most about an alternative energy economy is not having to smell exhaust anymore <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. Also, the bit about the process working as a carbon sink at the end of the article seems a bit iffy. Its all well and good for the portion of the output that we turn into plastic or fertilizer, but the stuff thats burned will still go straight into the atmosphere.
On the other hand, the good this will do is almost immeasurable.
When I die, **** cremation. They can turn me into <i>gasoline</i> first and <i>then</i> cremate me. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The way I see it, it is still far better for the environment. It means that you can stop ruining oil-rich areas in order to remove oil from them. It means that you can make plastics (which is the greatest human invention ever) without worrying about it someday being impossible. It means you can stop putting 99% of what goes into landfills, into landfills (as metals and such are already usually recycled and reclaimed). It means you can preserve areas ruined by agricultural waste by products (come to NC and see 'hog waste retention ponds' that overflow and cause massive public health hazards after every hurricaine). Hell, it's even a self-sustaining reaction, as you fuel the process with its outputed natural gas, for example, and kick out clean water as a byproduct.
Oh, and it puts the middle-east out of business forever. Go **** yourselves.
And it doesn't stop the creation of alternate fuels for vehicles. Not like the oil suddenly became free - it just became renewable. A better source will still come along, with optimized fuel cells, fusion, etc. in our lifetimes.
The problem of CO2 remains... if this causes an overuse of oil , global heating will be even faster and soon we can visit New York like Venice. But it would be great if any organic material could be converted into plastic polymers.
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Apr 27 2003, 06:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Apr 27 2003, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, and it puts the middle-east out of business forever. Go **** yourselves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I wonder if this means what I think it means. My sarcasm detectors are pretty crappy but as I see it, you don't like that middle-east has oil? After this invention Middle east won't have water/decent farming areas AND no use for their oil. Meaning they will become even poorer than they are now.
Also I think that factories might start using oil as a source of energy more, since they can just lump any garbage in to their reactors. This means more pollution, though coal and nuclear energy are not so great either.
And don't get me wrong, I think this device is really awesome. There are just some bad things too.
Hmmm... not sure what I meant, I was sleepy and coming off a bachelor party the day before! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It means no more oil money. That means no more western intrusion, no more war over oil fields, no more money for terrorism, no more people feeling like the only interest of europe and the west is the crude. They will get what they've been clambering for - independence and non-involvement. Let's see if it's really what they wanted, as if they try to go with the status quo and not-reinvent themselves and their governments, they will descend back into what it was like before oil discoveries in the 20's (or afghanistan right now): a country stuck in 800AD...
I rather doubt oil will go away, but at its logical progression the US (and Europe and Japan) will no longer need to import oil or natural gas. It could be the biggest change in the energy dynamic since the discovery of oil's uses in the first place...
As for Nemesis and me agreeing twice now: I'm sorry, and I won't let it happen again! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keep in mind that a tremendous part of the environmental damage created by fossil fuels (we'll soon need a new name for them...) is created by the actual oil platforms, towers, and fields. Removing those parts from the equations will more than make up for the new CO2 created by factories adding a generator or two.
As for the Middle East - many a government there has only one trump to keep itself to power - oil. Take Saudi Arabia, for example. A country run by a throughtly corrupt royal family, with a rigid police system to deal with opposition and fuel the only passtime around - executions. The whole country is a powderkeg for good reasons, and the only way of keeping it under control is drowning it with oilmoney (yes, yes, the picture is lacking). Believe me, the time after the oil won't be bad for the Middle East - if only because its deserts and the Nitrogen therein are considered one of the next big energysources.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Its obvious that this is an amazing improvement, but I hope that its primary role will be less as an energy source and more as a recycling method and a source of raw materials for plastics. It's certain that the price of gas will drop incredibly. I worry that this will sap all of the motivation to develop alternative fuels. In the long run significantly more CO2 wil be released into the atmosphere. The gas price drop will allow people to drive more and will reduce the incentive for companies to make fuel efficient cars. Now more than ever, <b>we need a gas tax in the US.</b>
Comments
feel free to talk about it ... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I read about that too somewhere. I think its amazing and you get good minerals out of it too.
This oil turkey isn't absurd , after all part of the oil we have now was made from turkey guts... pressurized organic matter tends to form oil , as alcanes are the most stable carbon/hydrogen products.
Technically, all those states that have been taking money to bury other states' waste in a landfill OWN the waste right ?
If it works, then they've been burying treasure for years and years.
[QUOTE] Thermal depolymerization, Appel says, has proved to be 85 percent energy efficient for complex feedstocks, such as turkey offal: "That means for every 100 Btus in the feedstock, we use only 15 Btus to run the process." He contends the efficiency is even better for relatively dry raw materials, such as plastics.[QUOTE]
Seems genuine to me - the concept was there for a long time, now someone managed to break it down to an efficient system.
Basically, this has the potential to transform our geopolitic and geoeconomic (not to mention the ecologic) situation drastically. Not only does it solve parts of the nagging Middle East issues, it basically removes oil from the political equation - <i>every</i> country on this planet produces too much garbage.
It will also have a tremendous impact on the economy, because the big oil corps become all of the sudden purposeless, which is possibly the biggest danger - let's hope that BP & co. don't simply buy the patents and lock them away.
I'd be interested in how far this system is decentralizeable. Imagine bringing your garbage to a small TDP down the street and getting a canister of gasoline in return.
My thoughts excactly. I just can't believe that I am living in a time when a machine that produces energy and minerals and whatnot out of garbage has been invented.
But if it's real, I say W00t! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
What an amazing article. Be sure to read the whole thing.
What an amazing article. Be sure to read the whole thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I said when I first read it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Glad someone else posted it here since it was getting ignored in the energy sources thread.
In a way it's a little dissapointing. One of the things I was looking forward to most about an alternative energy economy is not having to smell exhaust anymore <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. Also, the bit about the process working as a carbon sink at the end of the article seems a bit iffy. Its all well and good for the portion of the output that we turn into plastic or fertilizer, but the stuff thats burned will still go straight into the atmosphere.
On the other hand, the good this will do is almost immeasurable.
When I die, **** cremation. They can turn me into <i>gasoline</i> first and <i>then</i> cremate me. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and it puts the middle-east out of business forever. Go **** yourselves.
And it doesn't stop the creation of alternate fuels for vehicles. Not like the oil suddenly became free - it just became renewable. A better source will still come along, with optimized fuel cells, fusion, etc. in our lifetimes.
But it would be great if any organic material could be converted into plastic polymers.
The exams must make me sleepy...
I wonder if this means what I think it means. My sarcasm detectors are pretty crappy but as I see it, you don't like that middle-east has oil? After this invention Middle east won't have water/decent farming areas AND no use for their oil. Meaning they will become even poorer than they are now.
Also I think that factories might start using oil as a source of energy more, since they can just lump any garbage in to their reactors. This means more pollution, though coal and nuclear energy are not so great either.
And don't get me wrong, I think this device is really awesome. There are just some bad things too.
It means no more oil money. That means no more western intrusion, no more war over oil fields, no more money for terrorism, no more people feeling like the only interest of europe and the west is the crude. They will get what they've been clambering for - independence and non-involvement. Let's see if it's really what they wanted, as if they try to go with the status quo and not-reinvent themselves and their governments, they will descend back into what it was like before oil discoveries in the 20's (or afghanistan right now): a country stuck in 800AD...
I rather doubt oil will go away, but at its logical progression the US (and Europe and Japan) will no longer need to import oil or natural gas. It could be the biggest change in the energy dynamic since the discovery of oil's uses in the first place...
As for Nemesis and me agreeing twice now: I'm sorry, and I won't let it happen again! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the Middle East - many a government there has only one trump to keep itself to power - oil. Take Saudi Arabia, for example. A country run by a throughtly corrupt royal family, with a rigid police system to deal with opposition and fuel the only passtime around - executions.
The whole country is a powderkeg for good reasons, and the only way of keeping it under control is drowning it with oilmoney (yes, yes, the picture is lacking). Believe me, the time after the oil won't be bad for the Middle East - if only because its deserts and the Nitrogen therein are considered one of the next big energysources.