I don't know if you realize how important 1-2 seconds of life in a firefight mean. Even if carapace gave you 1-2 more seconds of life, which is really more but lets just say, you can take down two marines in 1-2 seconds, not to mention the ammo wasted.
Also sensory ain't in a million years gonna help you take down a jetpack faster. Most jetpackers will touch the ground for about 2 seconds on his way from MB to a hive, so sitting on the floor waiting for a JPer to walk right into you ain't gonna happen, not to mention if they know the aliens have cloaking they will be extra careful. If ever this might happen in vents, but if you point towards an alien you will see "ENEMY: SMACKTARD" in big blue letters on their screen, nullifieing the cloaking and leading the alien to an early demise.
and also cloaking in vents is still very effective if you choose the right spot. And cloaking on the roofs of halls is quite effective at stoping that jetpacker and allowing you some bite time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When did i say it wanst important? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about when you said sensory first is useful at all?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and also cloaking in vents is still very effective if you choose the right spot. And cloaking on the roofs of halls is quite effective at stoping that jetpacker and allowing you some bite time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is only right if by "very effective" you mean "can do something despite how just about anything is better."
<!--QuoteBegin--Lt. Hendrickson+May 3 2003, 04:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt. Hendrickson @ May 3 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have won in most games where sensory was built first. Then again, I usually only try to convinve gorge to build sensory if I know we got good aliens. My only losts so far is when the entire team just gives up aand half f4s and we get outnumbered or if the team is just retarded. Like really retarded. Or that one time the gorge build movment second. We got slaughtered there too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, when you have a very nice Alien team its nice to have fun with. But it could be disastorous.
The worst part is when Marines decide to drag out the game when they know they can slaughter you with weapon upgrades and motion tracking.
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+May 6 2003, 10:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ May 6 2003, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wipeout, read through ALL of the posts before responding. Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <cough> I did. You guys apparently missed the point of my flame in a mad rush to get back to your "OMG sensory first what a n00b I am god!" attitude.
Fair enough. I just have to laugh at the seriousness of the attackers in this thread. Can't ANYONE here have a fun thread on ways to play with sensory (and try to win) without getting s**t on by self-important, ultra-hyper attack drones?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just have to laugh at the seriousness of the attackers in this thread. Can't ANYONE here have a fun thread on ways to play with sensory (and try to win) without getting s**t on by self-important, ultra-hyper attack drones? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the forum for serious discussion of what works best and what doesn't. We have discussed how going sensory first is, for all practical purposes, USELESS. We discuss this above.
If doing USELESS things is fun, how about you try unbinding all your keys and winning using only the console? How about you set your mouse so left is right? How about you try to play blindfolded? This game is supposed to be competitive. Playing badly on purpose is not part of the equation.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
*sigh* some people just can't understand it, a skilled alien team can easily win with sensory first. But a n00b alien team can lose with Defence first. Strategies should be based around the teams ability. So, sense first, with a skilled alien team and an average marine team, the aliens will win, no bother. The marines will be so scared about coming out of their base that ambushes will be easy. Also, the sensory chamber warns you when the marines are coming to your hive, which is handy to stop that first rush. Also, if 4 or 5 skulks cloak in the hive the marines relocate too, then just as 3 marines are building the second CC, they jump out of the walls, how much is that gonna scare the rine team?
But on the other hand, you can get cara first. Most servers go for cara first, but do the aliens always win? No, they lose just as many games as they win. How many games have i played with sense first? not many, but ive won each time. How many have i played with def first? about 150, and i've lost about 60 of them. It's all in the skill of the team, no one can say "Sense is useless". Just because it means u get torn up if u charge a marine. What is the name of a skulk? SKULK! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS! GET THEM AFTER THEY RUN PAST! it's how they got their name. Aliens don't go assault until second hive, until then it's just keep the marines out of your two hives, and make sure they don't expand too quickly. What's better, 4 skulks rushing into a base and killing 3 marines and all dying, only for the marines to spawn faster and rush your hive, or hiding in the ceiling, cloaked, and jumping down behind the marines and killing THEIR rush with no casulties of your own? This wont work with a n00b alien team, but carapace doesnt work with a n00b alien team either. There are many strategies, but as i said, they should be based around the skill of the TEAM, not what you think should be done.
Simple when you think about it, and don't have a go at that gorge just because you think you know better, chances are, you have the same skill, just different views
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*sigh* some people just can't understand it, a skilled alien team can easily win with sensory first. But a n00b alien team can lose with Defence first.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, you mean nothing is an instant win and nothing is an instant lose? Who would have figured!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Strategies should be based around the teams ability. So, sense first, with a skilled alien team and an average marine team, the aliens will win, no bother.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right. When the marine team is almost completely worthless compared to yours, you can screw around with them and still win. While some people do this by going sensory first, I prefer gorge rushing. It's much more entertaining.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The marines will be so scared about coming out of their base that ambushes will be easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Refer to the "worthless team compared to yours" part above. A decent team of marines would not be scared of something that dies in 9 bullets or less (half a second of semi-accurate shooting) and has no nearby passive healing except his hive. In fact, first thing I do when I'm not commanding is rush out and kill skulks left and right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the sensory chamber warns you when the marines are coming to your hive, which is handy to stop that first rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you rely on the sensory chambers' warning to know the marines are advancing toward your hive... uuhhh.. your team has very, very poor recon abilties. By the time marines are close enough to trigger the warning, they'll already be spawn camping. You'll have no carapace to dislodge them (assuming you were away and you're rushing back home), and no DCs to heal the hive & skulks fighting off the marines. GG. A good alien team will spot a hive rush from a mile away.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, if 4 or 5 skulks cloak in the hive the marines relocate too, then just as 3 marines are building the second CC, they jump out of the walls, how much is that gonna scare the rine team?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is this even relevant? Just more proof that you're screwing around with inferior players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But on the other hand, you can get cara first. Most servers go for cara first, but do the aliens always win? No, they lose just as many games as they win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nobody said defense first == autowin. It's a step in the right direction, however.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many games have i played with sense first? not many, but ive won each time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same here, but only because the people I generally play with only ever go sensory first when we're absolutely certain we will crush the marines no matter what we do. I prefer gorge rushing though, it's a lot more fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many have i played with def first? about 150, and i've lost about 60 of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And I guarantee you would have lost a lot more than 60 games if you had went sensory first in those same 150.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's all in the skill of the team, no one can say "Sense is useless".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. The better your team is compared to the other, the more you can get away with. And sure I can, watch me: Sense is useless. It does not help one bit. Well, AHS does help people with crappy monitors, but that's really only compensating for faulty equipment. And SoF is indeed useful when your entire team is sporing every nook and cranny of the map trying to find that last marine, but that's only at the very end of the game. Cloaking, however, is only really useful for hiding in plain sight of unattentive marines. There are many more effective ways of ambushing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because it means u get torn up if u charge a marine. What is the name of a skulk? SKULK! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS! GET THEM AFTER THEY RUN PAST! it's how they got their name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By stating this, you indirectly make the very annoying assumption that ambushing is basically a cloaked skulk exclusive. You can ambush with carapace too. You can ambush with anything actually. Carapace will actually help you once you start moving (making sound) and engage the marines, cloaking won't do anything. Not only carapace will help you ambush marines, it will also greatly help you to assault them as well, should you want to or have to.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Aliens don't go assault until second hive,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you think aliens never have or shouldn't have to assault before the second hive, you're either very foolish or playing very crappy marines. It is incredibly easy for marines to FORCE a situation upon your team in which you have no choice but to hit the marines fast and hard, or else they'll be so far ahead of you by the time your second hive comes up (assuming you live that long) that you'll have no chance of winning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->until then it's just keep the marines out of your two hives,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How? You will kill every marine that tries to leave the base? Preposterous.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and make sure they don't expand too quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How will you ever achieve that without ASSAULTING the RTs (undoubtedly guarded by mines & marines) they have?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's better, 4 skulks rushing into a base and killing 3 marines and all dying, only for the marines to spawn faster and rush your hive, or hiding in the ceiling, cloaked, and jumping down behind the marines and killing THEIR rush with no casulties of your own?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is this relevant? Are you implying that skulks with carapace will automatically blindly rush? They can ambush too, and they can assault as well should there be an opening or a need to. BTW, if you rush the marine base and get close enough to kill armory humpers and base guards, you'll probably be able to take down an important structure, like an IP or an observatory, setting them back a bit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This wont work with a n00b alien team, but carapace doesnt work with a n00b alien team either. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right in both cases. The difference is, going sensory first is handicapping your team to compensate for a noticeable skill difference. Going defense first is helping your team (even n00bs) and hoping it will be enough to compensate for the massive early game advantages marines have.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are many strategies, but as i said, they should be based around the skill of the TEAM, not what you think should be done.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, you have to take into account marine skill. If they're anywhere close to be as good as you are, then you will lose with sensory first. If you easily overpower them, do whatever you want.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simple when you think about it, and don't have a go at that gorge just because you think you know better, chances are, you have the same skill, just different views<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> True. Some people think sensory first is the best way to mess around with incompetent marines. I think gorge rushing is.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
i cant really think of a reply to any of those things, well i can, but it would just be my opnion, and if there's one thing this forum doesnt need, its another opinion flaming war. what you sed about "you mean there's no such thing as instant win and instant lose? wow!", a lot of people seem to think there is. If you build a sense first, at least one person on the team will F4.
I was going to add my opinions before I read Kazyras' last post there, he's summed up everything very nicely (though I think variety is the spice of life so gorge rush/sens/mov first should ALL appear from time to time when the team skill is massively imbalanced).
The point is, we LIKE sensory first for a laugh when a) you want to lose very quickly because of X Y or Z (I've done this a few times after a ***BIG*** mistake on ns_nothing coupled with the marines being in cargo and I'd had enough of the standard "try to get the marines out of cargo" games). Sensory does the job a treat, a couple of scans here and there and you're completely screwed <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> or b) you KNOW you're going to trounce the marines, so you'll give them at least a chance - this can lead to some really good games (and I think helps to increase skill levels of the aliens partaking in them, sometimes...).
However, the vast majority of the time, these situations are NOT apparent, and the only hope you have of surviving long enough to be ABLE to get a second hive is to get carapace.
Now Night, what we're NOT saying is "You are rubbish" as we don't have any info on that. What we ARE saying is "the marines you play against are rubbish" because frankly if they're losing consistently to sens first games, well, they're rubbish. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines DO have a HUGE early game advantage. It's by exploiting that that the marines usually win (gaining enough territory to get enough res to start the upgrades soon), hence giving them a chance against level 3 cara skulks. If marines DON'T make use of the advantage they have against vanilla skulks, then they are more likely to lose. No res = no upgrades = less likely to win.
If the marines are all coming out of base 1 at a time, then sensory (or better still no upgrades) will be sufficient to MOSTLY take out those marines (before level 1 armour of course!).
What decent marine team has its members going around on their own?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A pack of 3 marines will decimate 2 or 3 vanilla skulks in most circumstances. Especially if they can actually SHOOT. Now, carapace, 19* bullets to kill a level3 cara skulk vs 9 bullets to kill a vanilla. That acually allows you to do some damage and take whole groups of marines down without getting mown down like blades of grass under a lawnmower.
I don't see HOW you still don't understand this simple fact:
Sensory first is a luxury few can afford. Defense first is a necessity for most.
I have one question for you:
Why do 99+% of clan matches involve the use of Defense chambers at 1 hive?
I've commed some games where the aliens got sens up first. I will tell you how I won those games with well not too much resistance. Game Starts -> normal build involving obs and not arms lab. We find out that the aliens went sens, I scan important areas where I want the marines to go through. Secure 2 res noz -> get MT -> Sens is worthless. I've also tried this vs sens. Game starts -> normal build involving arms and not obs. Aliens get sens -> Send the whole team to 1 hive, secure it with turrets, take another hive, secure it with turret -> Aliens lose.
Comments
Also sensory ain't in a million years gonna help you take down a jetpack faster. Most jetpackers will touch the ground for about 2 seconds on his way from MB to a hive, so sitting on the floor waiting for a JPer to walk right into you ain't gonna happen, not to mention if they know the aliens have cloaking they will be extra careful. If ever this might happen in vents, but if you point towards an alien you will see "ENEMY: SMACKTARD" in big blue letters on their screen, nullifieing the cloaking and leading the alien to an early demise.
and also cloaking in vents is still very effective if you choose the right spot. And cloaking on the roofs of halls is quite effective at stoping that jetpacker and allowing you some bite time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When did i say it wanst important? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about when you said sensory first is useful at all?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and also cloaking in vents is still very effective if you choose the right spot. And cloaking on the roofs of halls is quite effective at stoping that jetpacker and allowing you some bite time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is only right if by "very effective" you mean "can do something despite how just about anything is better."
Yea, when you have a very nice Alien team its nice to have fun with. But it could be disastorous.
The worst part is when Marines decide to drag out the game when they know they can slaughter you with weapon upgrades and motion tracking.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<cough> I did. You guys apparently missed the point of my flame in a mad rush to get back to your "OMG sensory first what a n00b I am god!" attitude.
Fair enough. I just have to laugh at the seriousness of the attackers in this thread. Can't ANYONE here have a fun thread on ways to play with sensory (and try to win) without getting s**t on by self-important, ultra-hyper attack drones?
wIPeOut
This is the forum for serious discussion of what works best and what doesn't. We have discussed how going sensory first is, for all practical purposes, USELESS. We discuss this above.
If doing USELESS things is fun, how about you try unbinding all your keys and winning using only the console? How about you set your mouse so left is right? How about you try to play blindfolded? This game is supposed to be competitive. Playing badly on purpose is not part of the equation.
But on the other hand, you can get cara first. Most servers go for cara first, but do the aliens always win? No, they lose just as many games as they win. How many games have i played with sense first? not many, but ive won each time. How many have i played with def first? about 150, and i've lost about 60 of them. It's all in the skill of the team, no one can say "Sense is useless". Just because it means u get torn up if u charge a marine. What is the name of a skulk? SKULK! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS! GET THEM AFTER THEY RUN PAST! it's how they got their name. Aliens don't go assault until second hive, until then it's just keep the marines out of your two hives, and make sure they don't expand too quickly. What's better, 4 skulks rushing into a base and killing 3 marines and all dying, only for the marines to spawn faster and rush your hive, or hiding in the ceiling, cloaked, and jumping down behind the marines and killing THEIR rush with no casulties of your own? This wont work with a n00b alien team, but carapace doesnt work with a n00b alien team either. There are many strategies, but as i said, they should be based around the skill of the TEAM, not what you think should be done.
Simple when you think about it, and don't have a go at that gorge just because you think you know better, chances are, you have the same skill, just different views
Wow, you mean nothing is an instant win and nothing is an instant lose? Who would have figured!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Strategies should be based around the teams ability. So, sense first, with a skilled alien team and an average marine team, the aliens will win, no bother.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right. When the marine team is almost completely worthless compared to yours, you can screw around with them and still win. While some people do this by going sensory first, I prefer gorge rushing. It's much more entertaining.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The marines will be so scared about coming out of their base that ambushes will be easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Refer to the "worthless team compared to yours" part above. A decent team of marines would not be scared of something that dies in 9 bullets or less (half a second of semi-accurate shooting) and has no nearby passive healing except his hive. In fact, first thing I do when I'm not commanding is rush out and kill skulks left and right.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, the sensory chamber warns you when the marines are coming to your hive, which is handy to stop that first rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you rely on the sensory chambers' warning to know the marines are advancing toward your hive... uuhhh.. your team has very, very poor recon abilties. By the time marines are close enough to trigger the warning, they'll already be spawn camping. You'll have no carapace to dislodge them (assuming you were away and you're rushing back home), and no DCs to heal the hive & skulks fighting off the marines. GG. A good alien team will spot a hive rush from a mile away.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, if 4 or 5 skulks cloak in the hive the marines relocate too, then just as 3 marines are building the second CC, they jump out of the walls, how much is that gonna scare the rine team?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is this even relevant? Just more proof that you're screwing around with inferior players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But on the other hand, you can get cara first. Most servers go for cara first, but do the aliens always win? No, they lose just as many games as they win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nobody said defense first == autowin. It's a step in the right direction, however.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many games have i played with sense first? not many, but ive won each time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same here, but only because the people I generally play with only ever go sensory first when we're absolutely certain we will crush the marines no matter what we do. I prefer gorge rushing though, it's a lot more fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many have i played with def first? about 150, and i've lost about 60 of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And I guarantee you would have lost a lot more than 60 games if you had went sensory first in those same 150.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's all in the skill of the team, no one can say "Sense is useless".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. The better your team is compared to the other, the more you can get away with. And sure I can, watch me: Sense is useless. It does not help one bit. Well, AHS does help people with crappy monitors, but that's really only compensating for faulty equipment. And SoF is indeed useful when your entire team is sporing every nook and cranny of the map trying to find that last marine, but that's only at the very end of the game. Cloaking, however, is only really useful for hiding in plain sight of unattentive marines. There are many more effective ways of ambushing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because it means u get torn up if u charge a marine. What is the name of a skulk? SKULK! HIDE IN THE SHADOWS! GET THEM AFTER THEY RUN PAST! it's how they got their name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By stating this, you indirectly make the very annoying assumption that ambushing is basically a cloaked skulk exclusive. You can ambush with carapace too. You can ambush with anything actually. Carapace will actually help you once you start moving (making sound) and engage the marines, cloaking won't do anything. Not only carapace will help you ambush marines, it will also greatly help you to assault them as well, should you want to or have to.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Aliens don't go assault until second hive,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you think aliens never have or shouldn't have to assault before the second hive, you're either very foolish or playing very crappy marines. It is incredibly easy for marines to FORCE a situation upon your team in which you have no choice but to hit the marines fast and hard, or else they'll be so far ahead of you by the time your second hive comes up (assuming you live that long) that you'll have no chance of winning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->until then it's just keep the marines out of your two hives,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How? You will kill every marine that tries to leave the base? Preposterous.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and make sure they don't expand too quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How will you ever achieve that without ASSAULTING the RTs (undoubtedly guarded by mines & marines) they have?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's better, 4 skulks rushing into a base and killing 3 marines and all dying, only for the marines to spawn faster and rush your hive, or hiding in the ceiling, cloaked, and jumping down behind the marines and killing THEIR rush with no casulties of your own?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How is this relevant? Are you implying that skulks with carapace will automatically blindly rush? They can ambush too, and they can assault as well should there be an opening or a need to. BTW, if you rush the marine base and get close enough to kill armory humpers and base guards, you'll probably be able to take down an important structure, like an IP or an observatory, setting them back a bit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This wont work with a n00b alien team, but carapace doesnt work with a n00b alien team either. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right in both cases. The difference is, going sensory first is handicapping your team to compensate for a noticeable skill difference. Going defense first is helping your team (even n00bs) and hoping it will be enough to compensate for the massive early game advantages marines have.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are many strategies, but as i said, they should be based around the skill of the TEAM, not what you think should be done.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, you have to take into account marine skill. If they're anywhere close to be as good as you are, then you will lose with sensory first. If you easily overpower them, do whatever you want.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simple when you think about it, and don't have a go at that gorge just because you think you know better, chances are, you have the same skill, just different views<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> True. Some people think sensory first is the best way to mess around with incompetent marines. I think gorge rushing is.
The point is, we LIKE sensory first for a laugh when a) you want to lose very quickly because of X Y or Z (I've done this a few times after a ***BIG*** mistake on ns_nothing coupled with the marines being in cargo and I'd had enough of the standard "try to get the marines out of cargo" games). Sensory does the job a treat, a couple of scans here and there and you're completely screwed <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
or b) you KNOW you're going to trounce the marines, so you'll give them at least a chance - this can lead to some really good games (and I think helps to increase skill levels of the aliens partaking in them, sometimes...).
However, the vast majority of the time, these situations are NOT apparent, and the only hope you have of surviving long enough to be ABLE to get a second hive is to get carapace.
Now Night, what we're NOT saying is "You are rubbish" as we don't have any info on that. What we ARE saying is "the marines you play against are rubbish" because frankly if they're losing consistently to sens first games, well, they're rubbish. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines DO have a HUGE early game advantage. It's by exploiting that that the marines usually win (gaining enough territory to get enough res to start the upgrades soon), hence giving them a chance against level 3 cara skulks. If marines DON'T make use of the advantage they have against vanilla skulks, then they are more likely to lose. No res = no upgrades = less likely to win.
If the marines are all coming out of base 1 at a time, then sensory (or better still no upgrades) will be sufficient to MOSTLY take out those marines (before level 1 armour of course!).
What decent marine team has its members going around on their own?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A pack of 3 marines will decimate 2 or 3 vanilla skulks in most circumstances. Especially if they can actually SHOOT. Now, carapace, 19* bullets to kill a level3 cara skulk vs 9 bullets to kill a vanilla. That acually allows you to do some damage and take whole groups of marines down without getting mown down like blades of grass under a lawnmower.
I don't see HOW you still don't understand this simple fact:
Sensory first is a luxury few can afford.
Defense first is a necessity for most.
I have one question for you:
Why do 99+% of clan matches involve the use of Defense chambers at 1 hive?
*not 29!
Game Starts -> normal build involving obs and not arms lab.
We find out that the aliens went sens, I scan important areas where I want the marines to go through. Secure 2 res noz -> get MT -> Sens is worthless.
I've also tried this vs sens.
Game starts -> normal build involving arms and not obs.
Aliens get sens -> Send the whole team to 1 hive, secure it with turrets, take another hive, secure it with turret -> Aliens lose.