Updated Damage Tables
Little_Hunter
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12793Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12793Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">fixes mistake in kitsune's tables</div> Many people have asked about the "numbers" of ns, and they are often pointed toward kitsune's geocities website. While this page has some great info, there is a mistake in his caculations that have lead to the belief that a carpased skulk can take 19 lmg rounds and other stuff. In an atempt to fix it I re did the caculations and posted the damage tables on my own geocities website. I also put in some nice information like the hit% needed to kill a alien with a gun if the whole clip is fired off. Anyway, here is the link.
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/fakemaps/ns.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/fakemaps/ns.htm</a>
(edit): I have figured out where my mistake was. In an attempt not to make the mistake kitsune has with the skulk life span I made another mistake on the life tables for light armor, gorge, lerk, and fade. The numbers there are a little lower then they should be. Sorry if I have offened anyone during this thread.
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/fakemaps/ns.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/fakemaps/ns.htm</a>
(edit): I have figured out where my mistake was. In an attempt not to make the mistake kitsune has with the skulk life span I made another mistake on the life tables for light armor, gorge, lerk, and fade. The numbers there are a little lower then they should be. Sorry if I have offened anyone during this thread.
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Comments
Please check your figures, slightly less 'scientific' but more accurate would be the NS Boot camp page I set up on my site. There are numbers there too but more as a guide to actual play rather than mathmatical curiosity - and I know I have the odd mistake in my figures, but its too much hassle to correct <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You have not proven in any way that the numbers are correct, by saying that there is a 2 bullet diffrence on a NO cara skulk and a LV 3 cara skulk you do however prove that
#1. You do not understand how carapace works
#2. You do not have the game experiance to back this up.
Carapace works as a damage reducer. 10hp is not = 10 AP
I think there was a thread about this just recently. Your options are
#1. Search for that thread to learn the way carapce works
#2. Wait for someone to quote that thread to get the correct information.
(to be honest i thought this was a joke when i first read it but since you seem serious I will glady help you by posting this)
One example, because Kitsune got the rest correct. A skulk will kill a level 0 marine in 2 hits. A level 1 marine in 3 hits, and a fully upgraded marine in 4 hits. This is all from simple testing on a 1.04 server, no numbers involved, just seeing how many hits it takes.
Carapace on a skulk REDUCES the total amount of damage done, as well as soaking up damage. You act as if life and armor both take damage the same way, which is totally wrong. Sorry, your numbers are just wrong, that is all.
Seroiusly, I was trying to hack the damage for the turret, So I search the memory on the turret for "23" (Which is what he had listed for the turret damage), sure enough I found the turret damage, changing the 23 to 9999 and the turrets became evil evil machines.
(NOTE this was during TESTING only, they only do a +5 (28) more damage on my servers now.)
Wait wait wait... <i>whose</i> entrenched in their "beliefs" again?
1: Armour is NOT the same thing as health.
2: The higher your level of carapace, the more your armour protects you.
People often make this mistake when they talk about whether or not Fades need carapace. They note that carapace only gives a Fade 25 more armour points, and after all what's the difference between 125 armour and 150 armour?
The difference is that the higher your level of carapace, the more damage is diverted to your armour instead of your health. The manual has figures, but these are likely out of date, so I'll make up some purely for the sake of illustrating a point.
Say without carapace your armour blocks 15% damage. If, with level three carapace, your armour blocks 50% damage it doesn't matter that you only have 20 more points of it. Those 20 points are protecting you a whole lot more than otherwise.
A skulk with level three carapace who has only ten armour, but somehow has all their health, is BETTER PROTECTED than a skulk with no carapace.
Thus, in the field, carapace approximately doubles your lifespan. It's NOT because of the few points it adds on, it's because of the increased protection that armour does. I suspect that Kitsune's tables are correct.
And *new and different?* If the correct number are already in place, how is re-calculating them new and different? Especially re-calculating them incorrectly, without knowing how damage is applied. When everyone says you are wrong, and tells you why, try and accept it without too much mental anguish. Sorry you put so much time into this, but you should have done a little more research before spending that time.
Anyway this is ridicoulos. How did you come up with these numbers Little Hunter? Have you even played the game Natural Selction? Do you look at your ammo left in the clip after killing a skulk? Do you count the number of bites it takes to kill a marine with LV 1 armour? This whole post seems like a joke to me and I hope it is, both for the sake of me and Little Hunter.
Health and armor are NOT the same thing, and a level three carapace skulk will take 19 bullets, try it yourself.
Alien armor seems to negate X amount of damage outright. In addition, any armor damage is reduced by half before the negation is taken into account. This leads to aliens taking a lot of damage then expected.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=28973&hl=armour' target='_blank'>Here</a>
It seems that armour absorbs a % of damage to health but is only affected HALF AS MUCH or more??? as the damage that is absorbed...
hmmm it semes that carapace only takes a % of damage it actually absorbs.. the nubers are verry weird and i don't know how they are calculated... they
ARE NOT CALCULATED AS YOU WOULD EXPECT SO DON'T TRY TO CALCULATE THE NUMBER OF HITS
This just <b>has</b> to be a joke.. right?
I mean, noone who has actually played the game could believe in those figures, could they?
The numbers are dead wrong. You have failed to understand how the system works. I'm not saying this to be mean, but your assertive attitude baffles me. You are so clearly wrong, and it should be so obvious to you if you actually tested your numbers, this is why it has to be a joke.
Oh, and not just the numbers are wrong. It's Gorge, not Groge.
Ps. Kitsunes tables are indeed scary accurate.
Such calculations are kind of irrelevant anyway, with 1.1 coming up.
Armour is a funny thing in NS anyway. One tiny little bug in about RC8 meant that the Lerk took full damage to armour first. With carapace, they had 120 armour. The net result was that me and coil discovered that the Lerk in that build could take 3 direct hits from a GL and still survive. And by direct, I mean contact detonation. Not totally relevant, but amusing. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Carapace (level 3 or all levels, I'm not sure) also has an extra quirk. There's an across the board 30% (I think that's it?) damage reduction, damage that is not absorbed by armor or applied to health. It simply vanishes. Technically, a level 3 carapace fade should die in 50 level 0 LMG shots exactly (200 life 150 armor, armor at 60%, thus losing 4 life and 3 armor per 10 damage bullet), but it actually takes as much as 77. Marine armor has no such mysterious damage vanishing property.
check your health after taking one (ideally) bullet!
its not particularly scientific, but it does occur relativly regularly.
you'll have lost only a couple of health/ armour points.
compare this to when your on no cara and you can see the absorbtion rate is really an issue.
Thats' where I got my figures and info from - admitedly I didn' go too indepth for the numbers junkies but I and a group of others stood about and shot each other in an organised manner to figure out what did what.
The biggest surprises was
<ul>
<li>a carapace gorge taking 4 grenade hits and not dying
<li>the hit box locations
<li>a level3 cara fade standing by 3 defense chambers taking 250 rounds of lmg fire and still being alive.
<li>Ono's aren't that bad,without cara two good marines are a fair match.
</ul>
At lv. 1, it NEGATES 20% of all damage done to it.
At lv. 2, it NEGATES 40% of all damage done to it.
At lv. 3, it NEGATES 60% of all damage done to it.
By negates, I mean that the damage litterally disapears. This is why Kitsune's tables have such high numbers for the carapaced aliens and marines.
I hope this answers any questions you may have.
Oh, and btw ignore the a-holes who flamed you.
Honestly how can anyone think that a lvl 0 lmg will kill a fade with like half a clip he obviously doesn't actually play ns he just reads about it or something, that's the only reason I can think of lol.
To avoid flames and make this topic go peacefully on its way...