The logging system
Eternal_Bliss
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7633Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7633Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">A question for Flayra</div> Me and HoundDawg were talking in irc about logs in NS, and how weird they are...
-the marines team is "marine1team" and aliens team is "alien1team"... it's pointless to have the "team" in it imo. it just makes it long ;/
- why most marine buildings are named team_*, what is the team used for? why not just call the IP "infportal" instead of "team_infportal"?
- even alien buildings are named team_*, like the hive which i think is pointless.
- there is no log if someone does f4, so you have no way of knowing if that player is in readyroom or still playing(unless he talks in the readyroom), having a log for that would be good.
- the people in readyroom have no team, thier team is <none>, i think they should have a team like <rr> or <rroom>
- when someone for example takes carapace as the DC upgrade you have no way of knowing that, you only know that he went gest and came
back as the same role as he was before, but you have no clue what upgrade he took... logging of the upgrade should be added.
- also why the skulk bite is called bitegun, it's not a gun it's a weapon but not a gun ;/, it should change to bite and lerk bite should be changed to lerkbite, so you dont have to be an expert to know what weapon is that(right now lerk bite is bite2gun and that does not fit it imo)
- right now if you spawn a weapon/hp/ammo it says as you built a building(log: L 02/04/2003 - 16:37:30: "Silver_kid<832><1657011><marine1team>" triggered "structure_built" (type "item_health")), i think you should add a new set of trigger called items_spawn or something like that, and that will be used by the weapons...
All suggestions here are just my suggestions to make the log more clear and nice to read.
this thread has some sugggestions but i do not think they should go into the suggestion forum, since that forum is mostly ment for gameplay suggestions and not server suggestions.
linky: <a href='http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html' target='_blank'>http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html</a>
-the marines team is "marine1team" and aliens team is "alien1team"... it's pointless to have the "team" in it imo. it just makes it long ;/
- why most marine buildings are named team_*, what is the team used for? why not just call the IP "infportal" instead of "team_infportal"?
- even alien buildings are named team_*, like the hive which i think is pointless.
- there is no log if someone does f4, so you have no way of knowing if that player is in readyroom or still playing(unless he talks in the readyroom), having a log for that would be good.
- the people in readyroom have no team, thier team is <none>, i think they should have a team like <rr> or <rroom>
- when someone for example takes carapace as the DC upgrade you have no way of knowing that, you only know that he went gest and came
back as the same role as he was before, but you have no clue what upgrade he took... logging of the upgrade should be added.
- also why the skulk bite is called bitegun, it's not a gun it's a weapon but not a gun ;/, it should change to bite and lerk bite should be changed to lerkbite, so you dont have to be an expert to know what weapon is that(right now lerk bite is bite2gun and that does not fit it imo)
- right now if you spawn a weapon/hp/ammo it says as you built a building(log: L 02/04/2003 - 16:37:30: "Silver_kid<832><1657011><marine1team>" triggered "structure_built" (type "item_health")), i think you should add a new set of trigger called items_spawn or something like that, and that will be used by the weapons...
All suggestions here are just my suggestions to make the log more clear and nice to read.
this thread has some sugggestions but i do not think they should go into the suggestion forum, since that forum is mostly ment for gameplay suggestions and not server suggestions.
linky: <a href='http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html' target='_blank'>http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html</a>
Comments
Adding more logging where possible to show properly evolution cycle would be very very nice.
- No logging for marines picking up/dropping weapons.
- No logging for weapon switching.
- No logging for interaction between Turrets/Sieges and Alien Structures (I think)
- Marine turret kills are sucides, yet alien OC kills are not.
- The logging for building needs to be 'fair'. What I mean is if player A builds up a turret to 90% and dies horribly. Then player B comes along and does the last 10% the actual building of the turret is attributed to player B.
- mp_logdetail cvar should cover more logging messages beyond player vs player damage.
I have not seen in the logs player building, just spawning buildings.
- No logging for marines picking up/dropping weapons.
- No logging for weapon switching.
- No logging for interaction between Turrets/Sieges and Alien Structures (I think)
- Marine turret kills are sucides, yet alien OC kills are not.
- The logging for building needs to be 'fair'. What I mean is if player A builds up a turret to 90% and dies horribly. Then player B comes along and does the last 10% the actual building of the turret is attributed to player B.
- mp_logdetail cvar should cover more logging messages beyond player vs player damage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I agree with many of the logging issues in NS, I wouldn't get carried away with the logging tho. NS already is resource intensive enough. It doesn't need to spam the logs (natively) with stuff like weapon switching and pick/drop of weapons. That kind of detail is best left up to a 3rd party addon like StatsMe.
Adding more logging where possible to show properly evolution cycle would be very very nice. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both HLstats and PsychoStats can easily adjust for their next release (which come a lot faster than a MOD release). Also, for Flayra's end, name variable changes are simple global search and replace (after he makes a backup of course).
v1.1 has been in the works for a long time already. When would you think is a good time to make logging adjustments, which clean up and make NS improved so that others can build from a lot easier? Logging in v1.0 seemed to be an afterthought. We're just pointing out things that could help clean up the residue left behind.
Here is one:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->054. Team Selection
"Name<uid><wonid><team>" joined team "team"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ team select.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->060. Player Objectives/Actions
"Name<uid><wonid><team>" triggered "action"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
also missing when someone buildings.
<a href='http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html' target='_blank'>http://www.eternal.mossad.org.il/logsystem.html</a>
we did not finish this, but if you got any comments please say them so we can fix/change <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
that is a pretty damn good website
yey, this is a happy day for us <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i quote flayra from the e-mail:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll probably add the location now, but not sure about all the others. Thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<ul>
<li>LS 54(team selection) is not logged right now, and that is part of the standard logging system... so by adding that NS will have the standard logging rules...
<li>by adding this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Team "marine1" triggered "Built_Structure" (type "turret_factory") (location "mess_hall") // new log line, this is a team trigger because NS is a team play game, this will be written when a building is fully built
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stats can give more points to a team if they secure an hive and can give less points if they build "too many turrets" etc`... so this gives stats tools (like psychostats) a whole new goodies to add <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<li>by adding location key to many current logs you will be able to give stats tools another feature to give points by(kills in hive will give more points than kills in any other location for example)
<li>by adding a team for readyroom people you will be giving 3rd party administrative tools(like CSBot,HLSW) the ability to see who's in the readyroom(and not having an ugly <none> team)
<li>by adding jetpack/heavyarmory info you will give AGAIN another feuture for stats tools to give points by(heavyarmory will for example give more points to the commander and to the team).</ul>
I can give you some more reasons to change some information.
Also, updating AM/MM/Psychostats is easier than updating a mod...
If any 3rd party tools break. Its their fault not yours. You will have followed the standard logging format as used in HLDM/TFC/CS etc. Additionally, Server ops will be happy to realise alot of 3rd party tools will work out of the box after these changes are made.
It also opens up a massive amount of possibilties for AMX/AM/CM scripting, as they largly depend on what is logged to react to the game enviroment.
Most are gpled (Adminmod, Metamod, Psychostats are. Amxmod should be and isn't.) - if anyone uses them they'll get fixed. Won't some of the new stuff in 1.1 will break things anyway? (new weapon-names for example.)
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+May 6 2003, 04:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 6 2003, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It's also a bit of extra work for me. What real benefits am I going to see if I make these changes (besides having an easier to read log)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Log narative. Better toys -- more detailed stats, stats which are map orientated (eg Marine relocation stats). If you put in map coordinants in for events (trivial?), birdseye view animations of games could be made (watch the infestation <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->).