3 Dcs?
Church
Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">In the beginning.</div> Is it worth it to drop 3 DCs, and then go for RTs? I have heard some pretty positive things about this, from some top clans. I mean, getting level 3 carapace 3-4 minutes into the game could REALLY screw marine expansion. But, it slows the aliens down lots as well. It's also safer for the gorge this way. This will benefit alien teams with very competent skulks the most, because this pretty much doubles your team's effectively.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Comments
In high level clan games, this is more a rule than an exception, so 3 D right away is probably the most effective build in high level clan games. In pub play, you can usually get away with that first rt.
This also depends on the starting hive, obviously. If you get, say, ventilation on ns_caged, you can almost always get away with capping shipping tunnel. However, if you get maintenance on ns_eclipse, south loop is a very risky spot to be in if you don't have any defence chambers yet.
Any thoughts? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This type of play really depends on how your team plays.. and their general skill. First you must take in account which map your playing, the smaller the map the more times this tactic is viable. If your playing.... caged for example, it wouldnt hurt to put up the 1st rsr tower since the map is somewhat HUMONGOUS!! and hard to control expansion. Although if your going for a lerk rush.. it would be in your interest to get the dc's up asap to slow down their expansion. Basically... its just another viable strat which depends on your teamates.
Also, dont forgot the possibility for having 2 gorgs?
We have tried and we have played clans that tried this and i have to say that in general it is a bad idea imo. The game where we had 3Dcs first the marines had JP HMG about around the time we got our 1st RT up after the 3DCs (they were on a higher skill level though, it was bfury) and another game where the alien went for 3 DCs directly we had LV 2 guns finished and LV 3 upgrading by the time they started building their 1st RT.
The thing is if u see them going for very early DCs you can easily counter this by getting more gun upgrades and knowing that their res flow is very slow u can take it easy and just sit on your RTs with your LV 3 guns (of course this would be acompanied by RT and gorg hunting)untill you fell like you are ready to launch an assault aginst the hive.
Anyway i dont know if u play in a clan meatshield but i think that u should get your team to try this strat once to get your own idea of how it works(no shame in losing right, or winning if it goes that way)
Plus, you may very well have a hard time affording carapace. That's pretty sad.
There is something terribly wrong with this statement... it almost sounds like a 10v10 scenario... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
If marines are being agressive, e.g. relocate right next to your hive, 3 dc's first is vital.
If marines are being less aggressive 1-2 rts before the dc's may be a wiser option
The marine game is all about pressure in clan matches, and often games are won by the marines before aliens get a chance to get a res node. By the time 3 DCs are reached, a lot of the skulks are close to overflow anyway, so it doesn't really hurt the gorge.
For the clan game, 3 DCs are mandatory if your marines are very skilled. If your gorge can sneak in an RT, then you're pretty set, but if not, you'll just sit with your carapace awaiting the impending JPs.
Now, as many already know, clan strats migrate to pub strats when it comes to better players. Your decision should be based on the skill of your team and of the marines you're fighting. The above is just the reasoning why clans do it.
If they have motion tracking, you definitely need carapace, otherwise you can't do jack.
There is something terribly wrong with this statement... it almost sounds like a 10v10 scenario... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
6vs6 as any normal scrim
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thank you. My clan and I will definitely appreciate all of your thoughtful inputs lots! Yes, I can understand how in eclipse this might be a good idea but in caged a not so good idea. And usually I assume the games will be 6v6, so the marines shouldn't be JP/HMG the hive when my first RT goes up if my skulks are doing their jobs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as i said the clan we were playing was at a higher skill level and still marines can easily hold 3 RTs with L2 guns against LV 3 carapce skullks. I think the whole "if my men are doing their work" is a broken argument and should never be used. NEVER EVER
On the other hand, if you can't get the 2nd RT or it would be too risky, then naturally you would want 3DC to help your skulks beat the marines back.
Incidently, I find RT, D, D, D is my preferred method over RT, RT, D, D, D. But whatever works for you.
There is something terribly wrong with this statement... it almost sounds like a 10v10 scenario... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
6vs6 as any normal scrim
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thank you. My clan and I will definitely appreciate all of your thoughtful inputs lots! Yes, I can understand how in eclipse this might be a good idea but in caged a not so good idea. And usually I assume the games will be 6v6, so the marines shouldn't be JP/HMG the hive when my first RT goes up if my skulks are doing their jobs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as i said the clan we were playing was at a higher skill level and still marines can easily hold 3 RTs with L2 guns against LV 3 carapce skullks. I think the whole "if my men are doing their work" is a broken argument and should never be used. NEVER EVER <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but I prefer level 3 cara vs level 2 guns than level 0 cara vs level 2 guns.
Besides, if the other team has more skills than you, then it's not the opening build order's fault, it's your clan's fault for having less skills. Nuff said. I assume teams of equal skill when comparing.
There is something terribly wrong with this statement... it almost sounds like a 10v10 scenario... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
6vs6 as any normal scrim
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thank you. My clan and I will definitely appreciate all of your thoughtful inputs lots! Yes, I can understand how in eclipse this might be a good idea but in caged a not so good idea. And usually I assume the games will be 6v6, so the marines shouldn't be JP/HMG the hive when my first RT goes up if my skulks are doing their jobs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as i said the clan we were playing was at a higher skill level and still marines can easily hold 3 RTs with L2 guns against LV 3 carapce skullks. I think the whole "if my men are doing their work" is a broken argument and should never be used. NEVER EVER <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but I prefer level 3 cara vs level 2 guns than level 0 cara vs level 2 guns.
Besides, if the other team has more skills than you, then it's not the opening build order's fault, it's your clan's fault for having less skills. Nuff said. I assume teams of equal skill when comparing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay then please be a darlin and try it against an equally skilled clan and come back to the forums and tell me how it went. deal?
Check my sig and contact some OP in the channel or something. I'm sure we could play a scrim so that you could try it out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
See you there then.
This is getting offtopic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here's a question: why always all 3 DCs at once? I would think that lvl 2 cara would make enough of a difference against at least lvl 1 guns that getting the 2nd non hive RT up 14 res faster would offset that 7 armor difference, and once that 3rd RT is up then the 3rd DC will come within seconds.
So, why not RT DC DC RT DC?
*Solely based on pub play
Edit: w00t 50 posts, yay
I think it's generally came down to: whatever works for your team works for the team.
Against a very skilled clan, they won't let you leave the hive to get any res nodes period. DCs are mandatory just for the skulks to live. You'll pull a better chance of getting an RT first on maps where marines have to travel longer, but any skilled team simply won't let that happen.
On pubs, you're not going to run into that situation unless the teams are wikkid stacked against you, or you've got lots of good marines against lots of good aliens. (Range attack comes into play here for marine advantage)
You can very easily get RT DC RT DC if your team can work with it.
For the clan on clan comparison and arguing going down: I would rather see the clans in action before I drew any conclusions about how well any strat is. If a clan didn't apply enough pressure to stop me from getting an RT, hell yeah, I'd go RT first.
I can list only a few clans that I've seen pull pressure on the aliens hive that pretty much force them to do DCs only (if they live that long). This list would include sYn, HAM, eve, and a few others that I'm short of mind to mention.
Rather than dropping the gauntlet at any challenge everytime someone disagrees, realize this: There is always somebody better out there.
The question of the validity of 3 DCs rushed has been answered, and it is quite pointless to discuss it any further. What works in your situation works in your situation. Assuming the other person is wrong simply because something worked for yourself is pointless. I could go on a newbie public server and do sensory first and win, and I guarentee you that the same ploy wouldn't work on the servers frequented by the experienced. That line of reasoning is already null and void.
So there you have it. RTs first if you can get away with it. If against uber marines, go with DCs first
I wouldn't go with 2 gorges. I don't want to only have 4 skulks to spread all over the map.