The 3 Chambers Of 1.1

Catpoker · April 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">what do you think?</div> from the 1.1 info thread:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Here is a little snippet from IRC chat logs:

QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 9 2003, 9:01 PM)
QUOTE
<Flayra> I've changed scent of fear to be much more useful: now it shows you blips for any enemies within range, not just hurt enemies
<Flayra> (and range increases as the level of the upgrade increases)
<Flayra> Sensory is wicked viable now, trust me
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

So now sensory is like MT, always good

and from the front page a while back:
- Sensory chambers are now automatically cloaked, and they cloak other alien structures in range (including hives, resource towers, offensive chambers, etc.)

- Movement chambers now give aliens energy, like defensive chambers give health. Unsure if teleport ability will stay.

- Silence upgrade now silences movement and attacks (it's incredibly eerie)

movement kills MT (so i have heard, maybe rumor, wishful thinking) and provides much needed adrenelin

and Defence is well....... a good chamber already

i dont think there WILL be a standard path...

everything sounds so good

so what do you guys think? what strats will you do as a gorge?

Butt_monkey_salad · April 2003

I feel stupid for asking, but what does MT stand for?

Catpoker · April 2003

MT= Motion Tracking

NightfireTG · April 2003

i'm not ready for such changes, only w/ the fact that the anti-cheat thing would be turned over to VAC.

Umbraed_Monkey · April 2003

Cool, much stronger than what i thought of (detects lone marines). Flayra must be pretty keen on beefing up the sensory chamber. If i only knew what hes doing for the enhanced vision upgrade...

Madjai · April 2003

hmm sensory chamber that cloaks stuff and allows aliens to see marines within a radius... starting to sound like i might like going with sensory first

only thing i request is that they take out the ghost hive view for marines, so then sensory chambers can actually cloak the hive and it wont be obvious.

littlewild · April 2003

I fail to see the usefulness of having a movement chamber that recharges energy. Granted it is an improvement over a movement chamber that does nothing, but it is still not very useful at 1 hive stage, imho, I think it should retain the teleport ability as well. The new slience sounds cool at the 1 hive stage, but probably not necessary once you have 2 hives game.

Cloaked building is an interesting idea. It could lead to some pretty creative game play as sensory chamber parasites marines that touch them. Add a little range to that parasite and viola you have auto parasite stations all over the map (Think MT). Not to mention the new scent of fear improvement.

How ever these chamber changes have to be tested against the marine changes. You can only know the overall usefulness of the 3 chambers when you play against the 1.1 marines.

Let's just wait for the play testers' views/comments.

Mr_Radical_Ed · April 2003

I love it.. it opens up a whole new realm of strats for the aliens. I just hope the marines get similar changes so we all aren't forced to go down one path in order to win. Cause as it stands you either stick to one thing, or you afford to take a chance and try something different and risk losing.

Catpoker · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Let's just wait for the play testers' views/comments.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

whats the fun in that?

i want to see the views of the people BEFORE 1.1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

anyway

i think i will go SC-MC-DC

i am liking that Sent of Fear for the aliens

Calantus · April 2003

Woah, sensory might just become ambush heaven. It'd be real nervy as a marine until you knew what they had... skulks that can see your every move. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Yeah, now we just need to know what he's done for enhanced hive sight. Wonder what he's doing with cloaking too... god I hate this. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

criticaI · April 2003

He hasn't figured out what to do with the enchanced hivesight yet. He was taking suggestions tonight. Hehe

dustmaker · April 2003

sounds like aliens gets stronger and stronger from rc to rc.

well, i ask me how the aliens would get adrenalin, do they have to use it, or just by standing nearby??

this is the second point i am sick of.........

rines have to reach a medpack to gain health, aliens have to run around and will be healed.
everyone uses those vent chambers, so ure healed through the wall when u fight in rine base.
imo aliens have to use dc´s or even the hive (maybe not the hive might be ok) to gain health, because when more than 3 or even 3 dc´s are around where ure fighting as rine u´ll never ever will be able to kill a skull with lvl 3 carapace (if its a smart one <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

just my impresion, don´t have to be shared

Fantasmo · April 2003

Scent of Fear now able to detect enemies within a certain range?

I can see it right now for scrims... 1 skulk gets Scent of Fear and acts as the "controller" while the other skulks gets the improved Cloak ability. The SoF Skulk can then relay enemy position and movements to the cloaked skulks as they set ambush after ambush making any movement HELL for the marines.

Oh baby, I love it long time. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

CutterJoe · April 2003

Trust me an lmg takes off way more life than 3, 4, or even 5 dcs could put back in the same amount of time. I try to play both teams evenly and right now i think it is pretty well matched except for the imfamous jp/hmg rush. But the new upgrades sound great. Cant wait to gorge and throw down some sensories instead dcs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

moultano · April 2003

He ought to replace advanced hive-sight with a displacement ability that makes your model appear a foot or so off from where it actually is.

Movement still seems like its a little weak, especially 1 hive, but we'll see.

The only thing I really think could be improved would be to make certain chamber build orders more substantially different in terms of overall strategy. Each is going to force different engagement approaches in combat, but I don't see the general approach to map control changing substantially with different build orders.

evilops · April 2003

Aye, DCs through the wall (in vents etc) is nasty when attacking marine bases/subbases. Aliens will still probably rely on DCs earlyish in the game to counter weapon upgrades.

It will be interesting to see how the adrenaline effect of MCs stacks with multiple MCs. And remember that 1-hive might not neccessarily only mean skulks, gorges and lerks. Oh and.. silence will be awesome (if not too powerful).

Sensory is looking sweet... high hps, low cost (tho that might change), cloaks stuff within an area, MT as an alien upgrade.. wonder if the parasite-touch-effect will stay. (i'm tending to think not as each chamber has 1 purpose)

If MCs cancelled out MT (which i doubt), there's one overpowered combination I can think of... MC and SC.... aliens that you can't see, unless they're attacking, or hear at all. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Confuzor · April 2003

As sympathizer to the TSA cause, my views are obviously baised against all boosts for the aliens, but there is one specific beef that would seriously tick me off if left in...

I've noticed that defense chambers can heal through walls; I'm slightly heated with that, but I would go mad if sensory chambers cloaking radius neglected walls. Anyone with the scoop on whether walls have an effect on the radius?

<i>Come, skulks. Why do you serve mindlessly to the hive? Are you not an individual, (as shown by your ability to have a kill score)? Come to me, and let Valium© bring you to paradise...

- Propagandalf, TSA Propaganda Director</i>

R0x0r_Mc0wnage · April 2003

I've always been a fan of silence. It's such an incredible tool(early on), albeit really only used in the event of a griefer/newbie gorge.

Will be interesting to see how the tactics(on the alien side) evolve with the advent of multi-gorge viability, movement buffage, and things of that sort. *puts on his tactician hat*

Jabba_The_Hunt · April 2003

If you've ever played on voogru you will know that sensory chambers which cloak OC's are only useful when there are dc's there aswell. For this reason I think it will change the standard build sequence from DMS to DSM (or maybe different gorges will choose one of the two).

littlewild · April 2003

Well, changes are made to the chambers because Flayra wants to break the DMS sequence that almost every one is using now. But that will only happen if the other chambers provide the same amount of incentives as the defense chamber.

The chamber changes in 1.1 are looking good, I believe the developement team is trying their best to even up the chambers.

However, I still think that defense chambers offer the most incentive as the chamber for the 1 hive stage for NS1.1. Let's wait and see what else Flayra has in store for 1.1.

ZiGGY · April 2003

it so has to be a laugh to try 8 mcs in the hive and parasite spam anything that enters <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Savag3 · April 2003

I like the sensory as it is, its pretty.

BreakfastSausages · April 2003

My prediction:

d-m-s will still be the most effective.

but maybe people won't cuss me out quite as much when I build s-m-d ^_^

Sinter · April 2003

Slightly off-topic, but here vit goes anyways.

It occurred to me that the best possible way to make multiple build choices (D-M-S, S-D-M, D, S, M, etc...) a viable strategy is this: Each chamber has 3 abilities that the aliens can upgrade to. Thus, it would make sense that one of these abilities be more advantageous at 1-Hive, another ability be better suited for 2-Hives, and the third upgrade be useful for 3-Hive situations.

For example, if each of the 3 chambers had one ability that was useful at 1-Hive, then it would be a decent strategy no matter which build-order you chose. In other words, the chamber you build first would not depend on which one was the strongest (since they would all have useful 1-Hive abilities), but would depend on the strategy that the marines were using. If the chambers were equally balanced in this way (which I know is near impossible to accomplish), then it would be a viable strategy to choose any build sequence.

Right now (1.04) I can see the upgrades as this:

Defence Chamber:
Carapace: Especially Useful at 1 Hive
Regeneration: Useful any time
Redemption: Useful at 2 Hives (maybe 3 Hives as well, for all those expensive Fades and Onos) or for Gorges

Movement Chamber:
Celerity: Useful any time
Adrenaline: Useful at 2 & 3 Hives
Silence: Useful mainly at 1 Hive (by the time you have 2/3 hives, you rely on force, not stealth)

Sensory Chamber:
Cloaking: Useful mainly at 1 Hive (by the time you have 2/3 hives, you rely on force, not stealth)
Scent of Fear: Somewhat useful any time
Enhanced Hive Sight: just not very useful at all <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Note: The above is just my opinion. I am not inviting flames, but if you feel differently, please tell us all how you feel things work.

-[CosaNostra]Sinter
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

taboofires · April 2003

When you build a sensory near a hive, cloaking it, does that mean it looks unbuilt, or simply dissapears? It certainly wouldn't fool anyone with much experiance to see a hive site <i>empty</i>.

ThE_HeRo · April 2003

Yeah, i hope it cloaks the hive to where it looks as though its unbuilt. That should include when the comm uses the scan, the hive should remain as though it looks unbuilt. Cat, thanks for the info, sensory does sound wicked viable. Hopefully there will be more of a variety of playing styles with all this good stuff. Aliens need some kind of anti-MT thing, so i hope something will happen there. (electronic interference from movement chambers? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>) I'm all for the new changes. as FireWater's sig says, newbs whine, veterans adapt (something like that).

MEShootHere · April 2003

My guess is it'll stay the same..here's why:

Defense is needed first otherwise by the time a second hive comes into play (unless the Kharaa are REALLY quick) shotties and HMGs should start popping up soon after...no Armor/Regen/Reinc will thus be fatal.
Movement becomes viable at 2 hives for 2 reason, #1 when fade you want to launch tons of acid rockets, #2 Umbra without adrenaline is not a good total cover tool.
So that leaves sensory for last. It may be fun experimenting, but it will still end up the same, I'm pretty sure...as cloaking may be useful early on, but a smart skulk can hide anyways...
I still like my own idea best <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> of 1 hive is 1 lvl of ability of each skill of all 3 Chambers.
Unless the game mechanics get a MAJOR overhaul, the sequence may not change.
Tho I hope so, cloak is SO rarely used and in the days of olde, it was so much fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
Just my 2c

Ph0enix · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThE HeRo @ Apr 10 2003, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, i hope it cloaks the hive to where it looks as though its unbuilt. That should include when the comm uses the scan, the hive should remain as though it looks unbuilt.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'd guess a cloaked hive will look unbuilt, but AFAIK a comm sweep will still reveal it.

DizzyOne · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 10 2003, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> He ought to replace advanced hive-sight with a displacement ability that makes your model appear a foot or so off from where it actually is.

Movement still seems like its a little weak, especially 1 hive, but we'll see.

The only thing I really think could be improved would be to make certain chamber build orders more substantially different in terms of overall strategy. Each is going to force different engagement approaches in combat, but I don't see the general approach to map control changing substantially with different build orders.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I like Hivesight, especially as a lerk.

In missilecommand its very usefull aswell (seeing mines, seeing rines easy from mid level)

Firewater · April 2003

I think silence would be very much the win now simply because attack actions are now, you guessed it, silenced. It will be a LOT easier to stalk people because you can setup around a corner without a marine hearing you, and ESPECIALLY when you flank, and they are shooting, they are not going to pay attention to the sound marine makes when he gets bit, because of heavy firing that usually goes on during an assault. When marines have to play cautiously while attacking, it makes them move slower, so the aliens can use that time to their advantage to build whatever they need to to achieve victory.

littlewild · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ME<--ShootHere!! @ Apr 10 2003, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> My guess is it'll stay the same..here's why:

Defense is needed first otherwise by the time a second hive comes into play (unless the Kharaa are REALLY quick) shotties and HMGs should start popping up soon after...no Armor/Regen/Reinc will thus be fatal.
Movement becomes viable at 2 hives for 2 reason, #1 when fade you want to launch tons of acid rockets, #2 Umbra without adrenaline is not a good total cover tool.
So that leaves sensory for last. It may be fun experimenting, but it will still end up the same, I'm pretty sure...as cloaking may be useful early on, but a smart skulk can hide anyways...
I still like my own idea best <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> of 1 hive is 1 lvl of ability of each skill of all 3 Chambers.
Unless the game mechanics get a MAJOR overhaul, the sequence may not change.
Tho I hope so, cloak is SO rarely used and in the days of olde, it was so much fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
Just my 2c  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Note that the resource model will be tweaked for both sides. So you can't imagine what the chamber changes will do using the existing 1.04 economy style.

The 3 Chambers Of 1.1

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