On Topic?
Eats
Join Date: 2002-10-24 Member: 1582Members
Join Date: 2002-10-24 Member: 1582Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">doesn't seem quite fair</div> I really do have to agree with the "clanners" here. I mean, the thread <b>Veterans -- A Worriesome Topic </b>was actually on topic with this forum. Sure perhaps 2 or 3 of the replies could be called off-topic, but that is nothing when I compare that thread with only other threads currently on the front page. I don't even need to go farther back to see problems with this argument about an "off-topic" thread.
<b>Interesting Weapon Idea, Nothing Serious Though. </b> is blatantly off topic with this forum. It clearly belongs in the Suggestions and Ideas forum, yet no mod has even touched it. Posters have even mentioned this in the thread!
Phoenix: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is a suggestions and ideas forum for a reason yah know guys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet still no mod touches it.
But this isn't even the only thread I see on the front page.
How about <b>Need Help <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->, models/shell.mdl</b> this is clearly off-topic as well. It belongs in the Tech Support forum. Not one mod touches it.
But suddenly when the "clanners" get involved in a thread, as soon as the mods can find an excuse, BAM, closed.
Just to be clear tho, this thread was closed only by the actions of 2 posters who weren't even truly involved in the thread. I could perhaps understand deleting those posts and even perhaps banning those specific individuals for being "off-topic" if you treated everyone in the same way about that, but I see no justification for closing said thread.
Past that though, the posts made by these individuals were jokes that were offensive to no one and not one person complained about them, so I don't even see why mod involvement was needed at all.
I'm not sure what to label this as other than unfair and selective treatment to threads that clanners are involved in. I am in no way trying to justify subsequent posts made by any clanners in outrage as they were clearly inappropriate, but there actions were only in response to what seems like unfair treatment to them.
If you end this by closing/deleting this thread and/or banning me then fine, but it seems to me that the mods should be responsible for justifying closing/deleting threads and banning people. I know I make them do this on the forum I run.
<b>Interesting Weapon Idea, Nothing Serious Though. </b> is blatantly off topic with this forum. It clearly belongs in the Suggestions and Ideas forum, yet no mod has even touched it. Posters have even mentioned this in the thread!
Phoenix: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is a suggestions and ideas forum for a reason yah know guys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet still no mod touches it.
But this isn't even the only thread I see on the front page.
How about <b>Need Help <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->, models/shell.mdl</b> this is clearly off-topic as well. It belongs in the Tech Support forum. Not one mod touches it.
But suddenly when the "clanners" get involved in a thread, as soon as the mods can find an excuse, BAM, closed.
Just to be clear tho, this thread was closed only by the actions of 2 posters who weren't even truly involved in the thread. I could perhaps understand deleting those posts and even perhaps banning those specific individuals for being "off-topic" if you treated everyone in the same way about that, but I see no justification for closing said thread.
Past that though, the posts made by these individuals were jokes that were offensive to no one and not one person complained about them, so I don't even see why mod involvement was needed at all.
I'm not sure what to label this as other than unfair and selective treatment to threads that clanners are involved in. I am in no way trying to justify subsequent posts made by any clanners in outrage as they were clearly inappropriate, but there actions were only in response to what seems like unfair treatment to them.
If you end this by closing/deleting this thread and/or banning me then fine, but it seems to me that the mods should be responsible for justifying closing/deleting threads and banning people. I know I make them do this on the forum I run.
Comments
This is the kinda thing that ruins boards.
I see it happening more and more over on the ac2hq boards.
HAVE A SEAT and let people say what they wanna say (within reason)
You are by no means Dictator of the Internet.
c o n s t i t u t i o n.
Your freedom of speech is not unalienable. You have a right to speak your mind, yes, but others have a right not to want to see it. These forums are hosted on a private server, by private citizens to discuss their mod. While I might have over-reacted, in a sense to some of the topics, it was only because warnings went virtually un-noticed. There are still RULES to this forum... and they will be enforced accordingly. I will still make no apologies to those that I"ve suspended and banned in regards to this topic. Yes. I agree that locking that topic might have been premature, however, the amount of posts I had to delete to get it to the point it's at now, you would not believe. I appreciate the 2 pms I received that were civil. I'd post some of the e-mails and PMs, but the board would censor half of them... which only proves my point.
The post stickied in the modelling forum should be upheld everywhere, and will be added to general FAQ soon enough. If you're not adding anything to the conversation (i.e. adding "I claim this thread for freedom" to a thread discussing the new veteran group, I can, and will reserve the right to delete your posts at will. Re-opening the topic, and making not one, not two, but three more posts on the subject will not help your case, and will only help to back up my case for a suspension. PMing me thoughts on doing nasty things to my sister/daughter/grave will, likewise, back up my reasons for a ban... as will creating new accounts to get around the suspension (player one). If you have a problem with the way a moderator/admin handled a situation... PM that moderator/admin. Everyone here is civil... including myself. If you're not satisfied with a response that you get with that particular person, pm the next highest. (Moderators ---> Admins --> MonsE/Joev).
I've closed, and will continue to close any threads related to admin abuse. If you can't take the time to write up an e-mail/PM to an admin/moderator willing to listen, then I'm not wasting my time investigating your vicitimization. I will now move this topic into the discussions forum and unlock it for as long as you can discuss this rationally.
You have like a triple negative going on or something?
Anyway I'm, content with your answer from when you moved this, and it's all I really wanted to see. I know being a mod is hard sometimes(most of the time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) and you can never really predict the results of closing a thread. Sometimes no one will care, but sometimes it'll trigger a mini forum revolt, heh. It can be a tough call to make and thats why I hate doing it over at shambler.net
The results are just so unpredictable.
ummm that's in theory
but the mods don't want people to leave en masse , and don't want their forums to get ugly. Hence the anti-flamewars rules , and the relative freedom of speech (yes , it exists !) that apply there.
Devs get their pride mostly from the huge feedback of NS players (no , not the noobs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) and want the best mod of the word to have the nicest community ®evolving around it. Else admins wouldn't care and just make general discussion / bug reports / private forums. NS forums are a whole village , where nerds can post 24/7 without running out of space to express their views on completely different subjects.
Seeing what we owe to the devs , the least we can do is play NS for fun , teamplay and strategy ; and follow the basic forum rules here. Which doesn't mean worshipping mods , admins and devs , after all the use of forums is to share and confront views , none is of them being "superior". Mods protect the forums from spam , flames and trolling , but they are no thought police.
While I'm all for listening to other peoples opinions as long as they don't insult somebody, this right is specifically designed to be a right of defense against the state. The constitution guarantees that no governmental body can keep you from stating your opinion - it doesn't say a <i>thing</i> about a right to be listened to by others, nor does it defend you against limitations that're imposed to guarantee other peoples rights.
Therefore, I'd suggest that you start searching for another paragraph to back yourself up with - you <i>have</i> Freedom of Speech in here, as long as you don't misuse it.
As for the initial post - yes, it is true that we don't moderate all topics on these boards. We do this in our <i>free time</i>, you know? This means that we'll moderate as much as possible, but we won't ever spot everything. If you feel you saw something wrong, use the 'report to a moderator' button that's below each and every post.
Ok, as I understand it:
we have a couple of threads that flew off on to tangents, some of them unpleasant ones, some of them not on topic in a minor way, and some outright personal attacks. These were deleted, locked and binned. Some people have an issue with this.
This is a public forum, which has rules (that you must have accepted to post here) and is moderated by individuals that give up their free time to do so. Don't be surprised if you end up banned if you break the rules, and the posts get moderated.
Now the objections about the stringency with which the rules are enforced is not an issue. You have a grievance, pm the moderator. Youn think a topic is unpleasant, pm the moderator. You need help....etc....
Remember mods are human. If I saw posts that were off topic, but likely to die with only one or two responses, I'd leave them be. 9 pagers I'd move. The cut off would be down to my subjective judgement. Again, the rules in action.
Should you not feel that the rules are fair, take it up with an admin (PM), or consider whether you should have agreed to abide by them, or whether you should have taken the other pill.
I don't want this to sound too harsh or mealy mouthed, but this is MY space too, and I care how it's used.
/edit spelling
Sounds like death threats to me. lol.
Do you really want angry people flamming here ? Was this thread that ugly before being locked ? I fail to understand your logic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I will now move this topic into the discussions forum and unlock it for as long as you can discuss this rationally.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember mods are human. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
LIES !!11
Aside from the fact that such discussions are <b>supposed to be held via PM</b>, I locked the topic, because it violated the aforementioned rule. Spyder and me came to a consesnsus for an exception, though.
Seems to me that the moderator should be responsible for answering to the people of forum as a whole, seeing as the forum only exists because of the people on it.
Further, if the forum as a body seems to disagree with the moderators actions perhaps he should back down, or I suppose if it happens constantly be replaced(That's in extreme circumstances though.)
Of course these rules wouldn't apply in the case of blatant forum violations such as profanity, impersonation, porn, etc. But I doubt that would become a problem since the forum as a whole does seem to understand these rules and abide by them/agree with them without the need for a moderator.
Only in cases where the posters don't really represent the forum as a whole is a mod truly necessary, and in such a case the mods action would be justified and the forum would have no problems with his actions.
meh, whatever.
IMHO, If a moderator doesn't feel confident in explaining his reasoning for a lock, ban, etc in front of the forum audience, perhaps there wasn't really a good reason.
When congress sets their own salaries, we have budget issues. When moderators deal with complaints about moderators, scarce is done. Things dont work out if the fox is always hiding in the henhouse.
**Spelling
We once had a mod war on NaliCity (effect of the evil Post Report thing) where BeyondUnreal admins (the hosts) fired a NaliCity mod for not ending a flame war between 2 of the oldest members. People went quite mad and mouthed off the admin as the fallen mod expressed his bitterness. It quickly became a ban/readonly frenzy for a few days.
Such "dirty laundry" can increase hatred between communities and make the forums collapse... Never ever show that you don't like X other mods , or people will support one to flame the other.
It's exactly what we're talking about <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Never ever show that you don't like X other mods , or people will support one to flame the other. "
umm, what? How is this stuff on topic at all?
I don't really care tho I just thought it'd be kinda ironic to point it out.
I mean, for all you know the mods could've made some decision that was extremely unjust and you just stepped up to defend it.
What does who owns it have anything to do with the mods being fair(which is what this thread is about btw)? And who said anything about people leaving "en masse"?
That post seems pretty off-topic too.......
Bottom line is this. If I were to suspend you, I'd give you the respect of not airing our dirty laundry to all forum-goers.... and while I'm sure you're going to defend this with "I wouldn't mind", let me assure you that not everyone feels that way. Many people have been suspended from these forums, and many of those people have returned the better person for it. While you might think that your nose belongs in every bit of forum business because you're a member, I assure you it doesn't. Many people don't want to be known as "That guy who got nuked" or "The person who served a 2-week suspension". Also, as I've previously stated, while moderators reserve the right to 'nuke' topics as they see fit (in accordance with forum rules), they are not required to explain to anyone except the postee why they made such an action.
The forums are NOT a democracy... and the moderators and admins, who volunteer more time than they should to doing what they do, will shape this community the way they see fit. Even if we have to shave off a few bad hairs here and there.