Sieges - And Why They Aren't For Hives Anymore
Chopper_Dave1
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Strats for four of NS's maps</div> Most players see siege turrets as an anti-hive weapon, and only an antihive weapon. However, one of my favorite strategies, on certain maps, is to use some well-placed turret factories and siege turrets to cover most - if not all - of the map's resources. By covering most of the map's resources with siege turrets, you keep the aliens from getting the resources they desperately need for a hive, and later, fades. Any resources opened can be taken by you at a later time, and easily defended by mines and such. And any resources that are just out of range of a siege gun can usually be easily killed by marine players.
I know that was a lot of jibber-jaber for most of you, so I'm going to outline the strategy map-by-map on:
Nothing
Nancy
Hera
Tanith
The strategy really doesn't work on Bast, Caged, and Eclipse - they're all odd ducks, with well-spaced resource nodes that generally can't be covered effectively by 1 turret factory.
So now, without further ado...
I know that was a lot of jibber-jaber for most of you, so I'm going to outline the strategy map-by-map on:
Nothing
Nancy
Hera
Tanith
The strategy really doesn't work on Bast, Caged, and Eclipse - they're all odd ducks, with well-spaced resource nodes that generally can't be covered effectively by 1 turret factory.
So now, without further ado...
Comments
Ahh, Nothing, how I love you so. In this map, I have two turret factories - one in <i>main base</i>, and one in <i>Generator Room</i>. The turret factory in Generator Room is, obviously, the most important. By getting that up, you can set up sieges that cover: <i>Room With Things</i>, <i>Communications Hub 063</i>, <i>Ominous Kismet</i>, and <i>Viaduct Access West</i>. The siege turrets in main base, meanwhile, will cover: <i>Docking Wing</i> and <i>Miasma</i>. Not to mention you'll have the resources in main base and Generator, to boot. Now all you need to do is set up a phase in Power Silo (assuming the aliens are starting in Via or Cargo), and you have 10 resource nodes in your sphere of influence and they have two. Yep, that's a lot of resources. Yep, they'll be screwed.
This one will be a bit tougher than Nothing. <i>Mess Hall</i>, the point of concern, is a hotly contested area in any server with some veteran aliens. However, if you manage to secure it (with enough marines, speed, and some mines, you should), you will be able to set up sieges covering the following locations: <i>Mother Interface</i>, <i>Airlock Exchange</i>, <i>Auxiliary Generator</i>, <i>Crew Quarters</i>, and of course, the resource in Mess Hall itself. Combined with the resource in marine main, you'll have every single resource on the map covered save the ones in the hives. And since you have mess hall under your fist, taking over a hive or even two shouldn't be too much trouble.
Ack, that good ol' lag beast, Hera. Well, to start, you're going to want to secure <i>Data Core Alpha</i>. From there, you'll be able to set up sieges securing <i>Entrance and Reception</i>, <i>Holoroom</i>, and Data Core Alpha itself. The sieges will also cover Archiving Hive, should it come up, and the vent will provide your troops with an easy drop into Holoroom (which, since you already have the factory up, and have turrets placed inside without any visible turret factory for the alines to much on) . You also have the added benefit of having a base upstairs, which is much, MUCH harder for a skulk to attack. Nice. <i>General Cargo</i>] will come easily after the door to your main base is welded open, and <i>Maintenence Corridor</i> can also be taken with a little mine work. They'll probably be too bust trying to kill in Data Core Alpha and Holoroom, anyway.
In the end, you'll have 6 resources under your immediate influence, 1 just outside of it, and 2 within hives that the aliens will have. Try getting a fade with that allowance =).
This one is a TOUGHIE. Ok, your best course of action, which I WOULD have marked on the map if it would work (grr....), is to get the <i>Computer Control Tunnel</i> under your control. From there, you have sieges that cover <i>Cargo Storage</i>, <i>Fusion Reactor</i>, <i>Acidic Solution Processing</i>, and <i>Chemical Transport Room</i>. Plus, you have the added benefit of being able to spill over turrets into Cargo Storage and Acidic Processing.
Once you have this are under your control, you're going to want to take <i>Reactor Room</i>. The double-node, obviously, is a nice boost to your funds. If you get Reactor Room phased, you can pretty easily take and mine <i>West Access Corridor</i> as well. Aliens will only be able to get resources easily in the two open hives, and possibly in West Access Corridor. Good luck actually putting this plan into action, though.
you need to make more for this to be effective.....
if you dont cover the hive, then they can get fades and onos with the other half of the maps res points.....
Yeah, there's a chance they'll get a hive, but at the very most, they'll only have two resource nodes. You, on the other hand, will have 5-7. They might get fades, but by the time they do, your team should be nice and fully upgraded. They'll only have enough resources for one wave of fades, which can be killed quite easily by jetpacks and HMG's. Besides, how long odo you really need before you start attackign the hives udner this strat?
Think about it: most of these plans involve getting into a strategic position in the map, usually located somewhere midway between hives and marine base, and setting up a quickie minibase. Get a few sieges, some turrets to guard them, and a minefield, and leave 1 guard, and then you tell everyone else to actually go CLAIM the resources. The sieges can only kill the resources, after all - it's up to the actual marines to do the dirtywork of securing them. As you secure the resources you are keeping clear, you push the aliens further and further back...I'd say if anyone is put on the defensive, it's the aliens. Plus, as someone already mentioned, you have a vast range over which you can clear alien structures which your marines haven't gotten to yet.
Offense doesn't necessarily have to mean trying to kill a hive - vieing for the resources outside of it and just plain harassing alien expansions can be just as offensive. It only becomes defensive if you let your marines park their butts in the safety of the turrets and let them do all the work.
I've succesfully used sieges to secure res rich areas before, but I never actually put this much work into figuring out the best places for building your siege bases. The only place I ever use this strat is on Nothing, but after reading this I'm considering adding it to my options.
I agree with you that this is actually a good(=offensive) strategy,
Reviewing your suggestion made me think about nancy though, you could actually place your first turrets in Aux-Gen, which will ensure that you are covering 3 nozzles. Add a siege base to Mother interface or Aux-Command would now have the aliens out of both res and hives.
Oh by the way.
Nothing really beats dropping a sweep on the gorge when he is setting up those res near cargo storage.
i will be sure to try these in my next game
And yes, it is very offensive.
That is "elite" dude, cudos to your tactical mind
You keep the res flow hurting, and those aliens can have hive 2 for as long as they want, they won't be able to fade very well.
Used your turret layout for nancy just yesterday. The aliens started with subspace so I quickly sent a couple of guys over to noname to cap the 2 resses while the rest of the team rushed the hive. Got MT asap, capped the res outside marine start, secured noname with a few turrets, then pushed a mini-base into mess hall (with a fair bit of effort), effectively sealing the right side of the map (with the help of patrols). By then a gorge had set up an OC field in Mother Interface, but the sieges made short work of that, and the res point, and the res south of Mother <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Of course then we sieged Sub and taking out Port hive was a cakewalk.
The res flow you get from sneaky diversion tactics is awesome (eg. sending 1 or 2 to cap res on one side of the map while the main force assault the other), and gives you a big advantage in tech if you pull it off right.
Don't really agree with the holo layout you've done though... personally I'd have the TF in holo room (capping both res of course). If you put it in the top right corner you can actually siege Data Core hive from the entrance to Processing from Holo. Gave the aliens a scare a few times with this trick <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> And if you really can't secure holo room (aliens have archiving and keep pushing) you can set up siege in cargo to take it out... and any OCs in processing if you want to expand there.
It seems a bit res intensive though and does rely on you continually sweeping res nodes or having marines do patrols to sight for the sieges.
but it's a very good strategy
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I am keeping this thread ALIVE!
Im confused, SURELY a siege in mess won't reach the damn aux in Nancy?!
*confuzzled*
The siege gun can reach aux gen - the trick is to build the turret factory close enough to the ladder that the siege can actually be build up top, within range of the aux gen resource node. Sure the siege will be skulk bait without turrets or at least mines, but it *will* reach.
At this point I only had about 3 nozzles, so res was still kinda slow. I started scanning like mad, and soon comm hub 063 and ventilation chamber was down (in about 2 minutes or less I'd say). Somewhere during this time motion tracking went up. The aliens were harassing generator like mad, but they left powersilo alone. In fact. the whole game I didn't put ANY turrets or defenses up at power, just a PG. I put like 4-5 turrets in gen room, and had set up 2 seiges. At this point I had also capped foreboding and even viaduct node. I noticed viaduct node went down. The aliens had even mamaged to gorge in the red room, and started chamvering everything up! What to do?
I had an arms lab early on, and have level 1 upgrades by then. I also just got my proto lab up. I started researching JP, but knew it'd be too late. Res was coming in pretty nicely, with 4 nodes. I drop a few JP and even an HMG, and told them to get to redroom. Only one person knew where it was, and he died trying to get there. Things were looking pretty bad. The second hive was almost up. but I had hope. the aliens only had at most 2 res nozzles (thank you agin Chopper Dave!) and their team wasn't THAT good either. I sent half my team ovewr to viaduct access west, and put up a PG, TF, turrets, etc. About this time the skulks starting leaping. I was nervous, but kept my calm. I mamaged to upgrade the Tf, put down 2 seiges, and started pinging the hive.
Due to the fact that they only had 2 nozzles for half the game, I managed to kill the hive before any fades showed up! The seiges and my marines mop up viaduct, and I hcekced powersilo. Everything was quiet ther. the aliens started leaving. It was like a 9 on 9 in the beginning, and after like 10 minutes after viaduct went down, it was like down to a 9 on 5. At that point I had researched almost everything, and had decent res. The aliens thought we had a two hive lockdown (when in fact powerilo never had one MINE or a turret there!) and were very demoralized, asking us to finish them off, so we did. I dropped lots of HA and welders, and a few HMG. The cargo hive went down wthout a fight. GG.
Marines win against aliens when aliens started in cargo. Semi-n00bish to average marine team vs average aliens. Listen up people, you DON't need to rush cargo to win.
On a sadder note, I tried this on ns_hera with a decent team against a decent alien team. MY marines, without upgrades (I spent money on turrets) died left and right in Data Core Alpha, even after my Tf and PG went up. We ended up taking processing 15 minutes into the game and seiging ventilation (they started in Archiving)
You will NOT be able to set up sieges for every single res node before aliens get the second hive up - aliens only need 2/3 (theoretically 1) to get the 2nd hive up.After the 2nd hive you get abilities like Umbra, webbing, leap, which slaughters rines - Two hives is not JUST about getting fades.
You will need constant scanning of res nodes = costly when you have 9 res nodes locked down.
Skulks will keep chomping your res nodes down if they are smart. Note : This tactic means you have the ability to kill alien res nodes but does not ensure the security of marine res nodes in the siege range - Two very different things. Cycling around 5-6 res nodes becomes extremely costly.
Any idea how easy tfacs are to kill? If you eat one turret or so (which isnt a big deal) the tfac is normally open - a well covered tfac takes a lot of res, as well as marine protection, something that doesnt come in abundance in early game. Good aliens will get carapace 3 and annihlate your siege positions.
There are other downfalls of this tactic, which is a shame, because it would be nice if it actually worked against good aliens - But as it stands, this will only work against newbies.
this tactic is yet another new foundation to my views that "ns forums are full of american newbs" :/