Hey, at least Calantus understood it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree, calling it streamline and/or efficient would be smarter then calling it "best".
Since I don't care to repeat myself even more, I'll leave it to that for now.
Ps. If you don't play to have fun... you really shouldn't play, get a second job instead or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most Clan strategies are customised for the clan itself. Like Stoneburg said, they're designed to meet the capabilities of the individual members. This was the problem I had when I was in a CS clan, they would say, for example, 'Noobo' is good with the AWP, he'll position here, then 'Thingy' brilliant with Colt will march on down the middle of the map doing a Rambo, <b>then the rest of us</b>, we'll all run through the tunnel with our MP5s!!
So the variations on all the strategies are team dependant anyway. Most clan strategies are dependant on their best guy, if that guy fails then usually the whole strategy fails. When a clan's best player decides to leave a clan, it can even break that clan because all their strategies were centred around him.
The pub strategy is generic, it's useable in most situations without compromising. Playing on Public servers teaches you to be <i>an all round good player</i>, it teaches you not to rely on other players to watch your back, meaning that you often have to react faster in situations because the guy behind you isn't paying attention.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
None of you seem to understand the concept of a strategy and how it works in both pubs and clans.
But..... <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ps. If you don't play to have fun... you really shouldn't play, get a second job instead or something <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is by far, the dumbest thing, i have ever read, in my entire life, all nineteen years of it, nothing stupider, ever. Lets put this real simple. Maybe you can understand it. WE ALL PLAY FOR FUN. Its so stupid to assume that clan players DONT play for fun.
"omg i play for fun" all that says to me is "omg i dont understand video games i'm 5 and cant make an arguement that sounds intelligent" The simple fact is we all play for fun. Winning is fun, playing competitively is fun, playing on pubs is fun, playing with other people is fun. GAMES ARE FUN. WE WOULDNT PLAY THEM IF THEY WERNT. Stop using this stupid "i play for fun" arguement since all that gets you is nothing. Come up with something a little more intelligent please.
I'm so sick of people claiming they play for fun as if the rest of the world didn't and they were the only one that did. Sure tons and tons of players in clans don't play for fun. We take countless hours out of our days to voluntarily cause ourself pain by doing something we don't enjoy. THINK ABOUT THAT. For the love of god people. Don't make baby jesus cry. **** look at that. you made baby jesus cry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If your team can't perform it, it is no good. If you can't adapt as a COM to your teams ability (or inability) you're not a good COM. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that Stoney has summed it up: comming in a pub is way more taxing and <i>challenging</i>, as <i>you</i> have adapt to your marines. It is not as in clan play where the comm knows the level of his marines and know where he can push them.
Kenichi, please take timt to think and don't get so upset, it's supposed to be fun you know <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, sorry for posting what you consider to be the dumbest thing ever. I can only assume that you have not used your internet connection very much if you haven't found anything dumber.
Now here is what I consider dumb.
Reading posts with the intent of creating conflict. The written communication is flawed in a way, since it only carries about 10% of the information that direct dialouge does. As such it is imperative that the reader does his utmost to understand what the author is trying to communicate. You would be an excellent example of either someone who approaches the communication form in a wrong way (dumb) or simply being too dumb to be able to analyze and understand. I hope it is the sooner, because that is quite easily adjusted, if it is indeed the later, well, that's just too bad then.
Now, if you take a deep breath and look at what I post you will find pretty much nothing that support the ideas that you argue against. A common mistake in a dialogue is for one part to assume opinions that the other hasn't, this is more obvious in conflicts of course and make the communication entirely pointless.
Even though you have failed to ask any questions and in that way make me clarify any points you may have trouble understanding, I will do so out of the goodness of my heart.
- Fun. Yes, I do believe (and hope) that everyone plays for fun. I can make the same argument as you do though, that anyone playing to win is stupid because obviously they aren't having fun. Doesn't make sense, just like yours. I however assumed people realise the shades of grey here so to speak, it's rather a matter of levels of priority then any polarised stance on the issue. No-one really "only play for fun" or "only plays to win", since unless you try to win you aren't really playing and unless you think it is fun there's no real motivart?on to play in the first place. Placing the "fun" argument in there is to give perspective and remind people that it is indeed a game, and as a game fun is of course the point (we are coded to find learning fun, something the school usually does its best to erase).
Also, I do belive that I have spent at least as much time as you have playing with clans. Not all of that was fun of course, but if the overall activity wasn't fun I wouldn't have done it (and still do it). Never made much money on it.
I play to win, but not at all expense. I think this is the main point where peoples "shades of grey" can be measured. At one extreme point we have cheaters/exploiters who can be argued play only to win (some cases) or for their anti-social (or rather socially dysfunctional) 'fun'. At the other end we have people who are just stimulated by the continual updates of colors on their screen and never bother to figure out what is actually going on.
Now, you'd have to be pretty unperceptive to not notice the trend on these forums w/r/t clans and pubbers. Clans (not all mind you) tend to post about how stupid/bad pubbers are and how elite clans are, rarely do they approach the subject with any clarity of vision and even more rarely with any humility. My own theory is that it is because of the low average age of the people combined with the lack of 'normal' social intercourse and the anonymity (thus lack of reprecussions) that internet brings. You for example would not communicate in that fashion you do here to me or someone else were you confronted with me or them, simply because either you'd be afraid of getting a knuckle sandwich or you'd be more socially concerned (people tend to avoid conflict, since having friends fruther survival, having enemies doesn't).
To sum up: Don't call something stupid if you can't understand its contextual meaning, and don't ask other people to post intelligently unless you can set an example. This was the second really ignorant post I've seen from you (the first was about 'opinions', something you didn't understand either), so you're really not in a position at the moment to ask *others* to smarten up their posts. Also, when you were five I was already playing games on my computer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As far as baby jesus goes I'm an atheist so what do I care? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--BreakfastSausages+Apr 10 2003, 01:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BreakfastSausages @ Apr 10 2003, 01:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+Apr 9 2003, 02:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Apr 9 2003, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the problem is, when the marines take and secure one hive, they are focusing everything on that. Now by the time a squad gets one hive secure, the aliens get one hive secured as well. Marines do not get bonuses for securing hives, Aliens do. While someone is spending money on turrets, the aliens that are about to turn fade are thinking of how many marines they can kill in a row before going back to get health.
2 hive lock down, is not a good strat, because it rarely gets executed properly, and that is because the ammount of resources they need to secure and lock down a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> marines focusing everything on 1 hive and allowing aliens to secure the second one? well of course it will fail then, because that is not the correct way to do a 2 hive lock down.
And by your logic the jetpack rush is a horrible strategy, because I see it executed incorrectly all the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> by my logic everytime I've COMed a JP/HMG attack or participated in one myself, it has been successful to various degrees, sometimes it was dropping one hive, sometimes it was ending the game.
Maybe I just play on servers where I can develop a certain ammount of trust (though never as much as the faith I have in my clan).
Clan players play on pubs and they show the pub players "how to play" the game. This is the way clan strategies are introduced to pubs.
These stupid strategies which do not work 90% of the time make me sick. Pubs are different from clan games. Strategies depend on the situation - number of players, skill of players, knowledge of players, terrain and the enemy (and for sure many other things). There is no strategy that works in every single situation. Well, this does not mean the strategy is bad nor does it mean the players are bad. It just means the Commander is bad (the strategy did not work because he did not know how to use the marines and so on).
If there is a strategy (that you can use from the beginning of the game until the end) which works 99% of the time (in clan matches) there is something wrong with the games balance. So I would say: Do not join a clan because there is not strategy but only one way to win every game which is quite boring.
Pubbing and clanning are very different, yet have similarities. Pubbing teaches you the basics of NS. The meat and potatos. Jumping, shooting, ambushing, hiding spots, upgrades, small situational strats, etc. And of course, the beginnings of strategy. Once these have been mastered, you're a talented pubber.
From here one could see how important strategy and team coordination is. They notice individual skill can only go so far. I think we can all agree it's very hard to convince a pub to "use" a strat, even if you're the marines' comm. So lets say the player decides to join a clan, for organized play. Of course good clans consist of quality skill and quality strats. But lets never forget that the CORE of any clanner is a pubber. At no point does a clanner lose this quality, if he did he'd be kicked out of the clan! Or he'd never play since his performance would be too low.
But because of how NS is built and balanced, clan play and pub play is very different. Player count, resource models are the biggest problem. Think of 12v12 pubs and 6v6 matches.
My personal story... I hated pubbing. It consisted of me yelling at "n00bs" and arguing what is the better tactic. Or me trying to work as a team (actually me yelling at people what to do LOL), while people ignore me. So I joined a clan, since I wanted to enjoy NS as organized play. Now when I wanna own by myself, I pub. Otherwise I scrim/match. But to be honest... I rarely pub now. It's just as frustrating as it used to be.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->opinions based on facts are not opinions, they are restating of the facts. They go beyond the single person. Experience is nothing more than the experiences of the user. They do not represent a whole, nor are they enough information to simulate a fact. The point, stop talking if all you can back up are your own experiences and opinions that mean nothing in the long run. I'm talking to all of you and not any single person. If your going to speak, speak with intelligence and not with your opinion. Speak with something you can backup.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point (though not as sexy and dangerous as some others) was:
Unless you have undisputed proof that strat A was used for the first time on this date, at this time and by this person/clan, you can't disprove where (clan/pub) the strat was developed....
So this entire thread is a waste, though fun to read <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Kenichi+Apr 10 2003, 05:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kenichi @ Apr 10 2003, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok, i cant prove to you that it is ture clans developed all strats first. At least i know its true, as well as many others. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> eh i'm tired of arguing, we know we (the clan scene) have created most of the strats that are used in pubs. A strategy does not suck if the marines cannot pull it off, though the commander probably should adapt a little to scrub players, it really doesnt matter, if the marines cannot kill, they cannot expand, if they cannot expand the marines lose. It is that simple. Dont blame the strat for the short commings of marines, otherwise the skill gap between good competitive clans and the majority of regular pubbers will continue to be the size of the grand canyon. Their games will continue to be "ruined" by people who have more skill.
When people start taking responsibility for their own short commings, NS will be SUCH a better game.
Call me elitest, call me an ****, call me looking down on people, do whatever, this is what I believe, and from my pub/clan experiences, they are true, with a few exceptions (unfortunately, everyone thinks they are exceptions).
Oh Stoneburg i will still like to know what clan experience you had, I think I might have missed it in one of the threads. IF you have none in the NS scene, I suggest you get some before you continually talk about the differences between clan and pub play.
I'm out of this thread peace, think what you wanna think, I know what I know <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
For F's sake people, IF YOU DON'T NEED AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE TO GO OFFROAD, DON'T BUY ONE.
The next time I can't turn right (in Aus, would be the equivalent of a left-turn to you americans) and can't because some IDIOT in a 4x4 (SUV) is blocking my sight I WILL GO POSTAL.
I also hate bastages in their FREAKING 300 FOOT HIGH DOUBLE FREAKIN CAB TRUCKS......WTH DO YOU NEED THAT DAMN MONSTER FOR?!?! I NEVER CAN SEE CRAP.......
ALL TRUCKS/SUVS NEED TO CRASH N' BURN /em eyes turn red /em breathes fire
........ k' I feel better now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hey, I'm relatively new to the NS scene, but this thread is too funny to pass up on. I'm familiar with clans and team play, since I've played TFC for however long it has been out and have been in a clan for a while.
I don't have a problem with clanners at all, but I think it is funny how you guys are COMPLETELY missing stoneburg's point. He is not saying that your elite strategies are bad. I'm sure that they are extremely sound and well-planned; however, any good strategy must be based on the abilities of the soldiers to implement it. An extremely complicated strategy is a BAD strategy on a pub server, because you will never have the level of organization necessary to implement it. Maybe it works beautifully in your clan matches, but if you try to use it on a pub then it becomes a bad strategy. You can't say that it is still a good strategy, the people just sucked too much to do it, because, as I said earlier, strategies need to take into account the capabilities of the people who will be implementing them. A commander who doesn't do this, and who tries to force an unworkable (for the situation) strategy on his team is a bad commander.
Look at it this way. You have your advanced clan strategy that you try to use on a pub ten times. It fails every time because your teammates cannot pull it off. I call this a bad strategy for the situation, because it does not work. A simpler plan is in order.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
It's just a matter of teaching it to your marines on the go. IF you're a good enough commander (and the marines aren't TOTAL buffoons) it CAN be done. Think about it THIS way. On a pub server, your OPPOSITION should be your equal quality wise just about (or else it'd be team stacking and that's another matter all together) so the strats might be easier to pull off in some respects!
Actually, I prefer playing on Pubs. Why? Cuz, despite of all the stress and yelling and n00bs and all that, pub games are generally MUCH more diverse and interesting than Clan games. After a while, youll start feeling that you NEED that stress and yelling and n00bs in every game. I play this game for fun. And EVERY pub is so different from the next. Clan games, at least from my POV, are... well.... boring.
Theres really not that much difference from clan and public games, only that with clans you tend to see the same people day in/ day out, it does get boring but at least whenever you want a quality large game you can just organize one on the spur of the moment with the other clan members.
Maybe its just a preferece <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
maybe its just pointless <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I agree, calling it streamline and/or efficient would be smarter then calling it "best".
Since I don't care to repeat myself even more, I'll leave it to that for now.
Ps. If you don't play to have fun... you really shouldn't play, get a second job instead or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
So the variations on all the strategies are team dependant anyway. Most clan strategies are dependant on their best guy, if that guy fails then usually the whole strategy fails. When a clan's best player decides to leave a clan, it can even break that clan because all their strategies were centred around him.
The pub strategy is generic, it's useable in most situations without compromising. Playing on Public servers teaches you to be <i>an all round good player</i>, it teaches you not to rely on other players to watch your back, meaning that you often have to react faster in situations because the guy behind you isn't paying attention.
But.....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ps. If you don't play to have fun... you really shouldn't play, get a second job instead or something <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is by far, the dumbest thing, i have ever read, in my entire life, all nineteen years of it, nothing stupider, ever. Lets put this real simple. Maybe you can understand it. WE ALL PLAY FOR FUN. Its so stupid to assume that clan players DONT play for fun.
"omg i play for fun" all that says to me is "omg i dont understand video games i'm 5 and cant make an arguement that sounds intelligent" The simple fact is we all play for fun. Winning is fun, playing competitively is fun, playing on pubs is fun, playing with other people is fun. GAMES ARE FUN. WE WOULDNT PLAY THEM IF THEY WERNT. Stop using this stupid "i play for fun" arguement since all that gets you is nothing. Come up with something a little more intelligent please.
I'm so sick of people claiming they play for fun as if the rest of the world didn't and they were the only one that did. Sure tons and tons of players in clans don't play for fun. We take countless hours out of our days to voluntarily cause ourself pain by doing something we don't enjoy. THINK ABOUT THAT. For the love of god people. Don't make baby jesus cry. **** look at that. you made baby jesus cry.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that Stoney has summed it up: comming in a pub is way more taxing and <i>challenging</i>, as <i>you</i> have adapt to your marines. It is not as in clan play where the comm knows the level of his marines and know where he can push them.
Anyway, sorry for posting what you consider to be the dumbest thing ever. I can only assume that you have not used your internet connection very much if you haven't found anything dumber.
Now here is what I consider dumb.
Reading posts with the intent of creating conflict. The written communication is flawed in a way, since it only carries about 10% of the information that direct dialouge does. As such it is imperative that the reader does his utmost to understand what the author is trying to communicate. You would be an excellent example of either someone who approaches the communication form in a wrong way (dumb) or simply being too dumb to be able to analyze and understand. I hope it is the sooner, because that is quite easily adjusted, if it is indeed the later, well, that's just too bad then.
Now, if you take a deep breath and look at what I post you will find pretty much nothing that support the ideas that you argue against. A common mistake in a dialogue is for one part to assume opinions that the other hasn't, this is more obvious in conflicts of course and make the communication entirely pointless.
Even though you have failed to ask any questions and in that way make me clarify any points you may have trouble understanding, I will do so out of the goodness of my heart.
- Fun. Yes, I do believe (and hope) that everyone plays for fun. I can make the same argument as you do though, that anyone playing to win is stupid because obviously they aren't having fun. Doesn't make sense, just like yours. I however assumed people realise the shades of grey here so to speak, it's rather a matter of levels of priority then any polarised stance on the issue. No-one really "only play for fun" or "only plays to win", since unless you try to win you aren't really playing and unless you think it is fun there's no real motivart?on to play in the first place. Placing the "fun" argument in there is to give perspective and remind people that it is indeed a game, and as a game fun is of course the point (we are coded to find learning fun, something the school usually does its best to erase).
Also, I do belive that I have spent at least as much time as you have playing with clans. Not all of that was fun of course, but if the overall activity wasn't fun I wouldn't have done it (and still do it). Never made much money on it.
I play to win, but not at all expense. I think this is the main point where peoples "shades of grey" can be measured. At one extreme point we have cheaters/exploiters who can be argued play only to win (some cases) or for their anti-social (or rather socially dysfunctional) 'fun'. At the other end we have people who are just stimulated by the continual updates of colors on their screen and never bother to figure out what is actually going on.
Now, you'd have to be pretty unperceptive to not notice the trend on these forums w/r/t clans and pubbers. Clans (not all mind you) tend to post about how stupid/bad pubbers are and how elite clans are, rarely do they approach the subject with any clarity of vision and even more rarely with any humility. My own theory is that it is because of the low average age of the people combined with the lack of 'normal' social intercourse and the anonymity (thus lack of reprecussions) that internet brings. You for example would not communicate in that fashion you do here to me or someone else were you confronted with me or them, simply because either you'd be afraid of getting a knuckle sandwich or you'd be more socially concerned (people tend to avoid conflict, since having friends fruther survival, having enemies doesn't).
To sum up: Don't call something stupid if you can't understand its contextual meaning, and don't ask other people to post intelligently unless you can set an example. This was the second really ignorant post I've seen from you (the first was about 'opinions', something you didn't understand either), so you're really not in a position at the moment to ask *others* to smarten up their posts. Also, when you were five I was already playing games on my computer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As far as baby jesus goes I'm an atheist so what do I care? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 hive lock down, is not a good strat, because it rarely gets executed properly, and that is because the ammount of resources they need to secure and lock down a hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marines focusing everything on 1 hive and allowing aliens to secure the second one? well of course it will fail then, because that is not the correct way to do a 2 hive lock down.
And by your logic the jetpack rush is a horrible strategy, because I see it executed incorrectly all the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
by my logic everytime I've COMed a JP/HMG attack or participated in one myself, it has been successful to various degrees, sometimes it was dropping one hive, sometimes it was ending the game.
Maybe I just play on servers where I can develop a certain ammount of trust (though never as much as the faith I have in my clan).
These stupid strategies which do not work 90% of the time make me sick. Pubs are different from clan games. Strategies depend on the situation - number of players, skill of players, knowledge of players, terrain and the enemy (and for sure many other things). There is no strategy that works in every single situation. Well, this does not mean the strategy is bad nor does it mean the players are bad. It just means the Commander is bad (the strategy did not work because he did not know how to use the marines and so on).
If there is a strategy (that you can use from the beginning of the game until the end) which works 99% of the time (in clan matches) there is something wrong with the games balance. So I would say: Do not join a clan because there is not strategy but only one way to win every game which is quite boring.
From here one could see how important strategy and team coordination is. They notice individual skill can only go so far. I think we can all agree it's very hard to convince a pub to "use" a strat, even if you're the marines' comm. So lets say the player decides to join a clan, for organized play. Of course good clans consist of quality skill and quality strats. But lets never forget that the CORE of any clanner is a pubber. At no point does a clanner lose this quality, if he did he'd be kicked out of the clan! Or he'd never play since his performance would be too low.
But because of how NS is built and balanced, clan play and pub play is very different. Player count, resource models are the biggest problem. Think of 12v12 pubs and 6v6 matches.
My personal story... I hated pubbing. It consisted of me yelling at "n00bs" and arguing what is the better tactic. Or me trying to work as a team (actually me yelling at people what to do LOL), while people ignore me. So I joined a clan, since I wanted to enjoy NS as organized play. Now when I wanna own by myself, I pub. Otherwise I scrim/match. But to be honest... I rarely pub now. It's just as frustrating as it used to be.
My point (though not as sexy and dangerous as some others) was:
Unless you have undisputed proof that strat A was used for the first time on this date, at this time and by this person/clan, you can't disprove where (clan/pub) the strat was developed....
So this entire thread is a waste, though fun to read <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Intelligent enough?
eh i'm tired of arguing, we know we (the clan scene) have created most of the strats that are used in pubs. A strategy does not suck if the marines cannot pull it off, though the commander probably should adapt a little to scrub players, it really doesnt matter, if the marines cannot kill, they cannot expand, if they cannot expand the marines lose. It is that simple. Dont blame the strat for the short commings of marines, otherwise the skill gap between good competitive clans and the majority of regular pubbers will continue to be the size of the grand canyon. Their games will continue to be "ruined" by people who have more skill.
When people start taking responsibility for their own short commings, NS will be SUCH a better game.
Call me elitest, call me an ****, call me looking down on people, do whatever, this is what I believe, and from my pub/clan experiences, they are true, with a few exceptions (unfortunately, everyone thinks they are exceptions).
Oh Stoneburg i will still like to know what clan experience you had, I think I might have missed it in one of the threads. IF you have none in the NS scene, I suggest you get some before you continually talk about the differences between clan and pub play.
I'm out of this thread peace, think what you wanna think, I know what I know <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
For F's sake people, IF YOU DON'T NEED AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE TO GO OFFROAD, DON'T BUY ONE.
The next time I can't turn right (in Aus, would be the equivalent of a left-turn to you americans) and can't because some IDIOT in a 4x4 (SUV) is blocking my sight I WILL GO POSTAL.
Ah-hem...
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OMG you too?!?!
I also hate bastages in their FREAKING 300 FOOT HIGH DOUBLE FREAKIN CAB TRUCKS......WTH DO YOU NEED THAT DAMN MONSTER FOR?!?! I NEVER CAN SEE CRAP.......
ALL TRUCKS/SUVS NEED TO CRASH N' BURN
/em eyes turn red
/em breathes fire
........
k' I feel better now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't have a problem with clanners at all, but I think it is funny how you guys are COMPLETELY missing stoneburg's point. He is not saying that your elite strategies are bad. I'm sure that they are extremely sound and well-planned; however, any good strategy must be based on the abilities of the soldiers to implement it. An extremely complicated strategy is a BAD strategy on a pub server, because you will never have the level of organization necessary to implement it. Maybe it works beautifully in your clan matches, but if you try to use it on a pub then it becomes a bad strategy. You can't say that it is still a good strategy, the people just sucked too much to do it, because, as I said earlier, strategies need to take into account the capabilities of the people who will be implementing them. A commander who doesn't do this, and who tries to force an unworkable (for the situation) strategy on his team is a bad commander.
Look at it this way. You have your advanced clan strategy that you try to use on a pub ten times. It fails every time because your teammates cannot pull it off. I call this a bad strategy for the situation, because it does not work. A simpler plan is in order.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Shame that pub games are starting to mean jp hmg rush games too
1.1 !!!!!!
- Shame that pub games are starting to mean jp hmg rush games too
1.1 !!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any particular reason or are we supposed to read your mind.
Perhaps list some experience (if any).
Lol