Devs: Natural Selection...
n00by_doo
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12534Members
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12534Members
<div class="IPBDescription">it's about adaptation right?</div> Perhaps Flay could look at definitive counters and scouting.
At the moment if you know for sure, from skulk suicide scouting, that the marines are teching to JPs it's still damn hard to protect against it. All your sacrifices (you lot distract and die to the mines and 'rines, I'll take a look-see...go...) are for nothing, since even though you know exactly what they are up to, and base your defences towards exactly countering this threat, it's still damn hard!
If the game mechanics are changed to just "nerf" the JP rush, then others (say the HMG/mine rush...etc...) will tend to naturally spring up. Balancing using only the 'nerf the currently favored strategy' technique is time-consuming and difficult.
Why not provide more effective, natural counters to particular (broad) strategies that the marines can employ (I say marines in particular because the excellent free scouting abilities of the aliens and their restricted start build lean it that way), such as starting-hive-storm, two-hive-lockdown, res-and-tech-attack etc. If the aliens have slightly more powerful counter-attacks to these broad strategies, then the marines will have to counter spy and change tactics accordingly (or press on with the original plan of course, if they think they are far enough ahead).
I.e. the old Defence>Rush, Rush>Teching, Teching>Defence set-up of many RTSs, but set to a different tune. You must scout and counter-scout to stay ahead of the opponent - it keeps games dynamic. All that is required is effective counters to particular strategies (which differ from RTSs; defence for example is a sucky choice for marines in NS). Many things are solved by this broad approach: teching to a single goal (JPs anyone?) is riskier, because without an obs you can't tell if the aliens are going for the anti-JP strat (whatever that would be...) and building an obs but only scouting with it would be expensive, as an example.
Considering 1.1:
If aliens can truly choose advanced lifeforms and multiple upgrade paths at the 1-hive stage, then this may already apply. See the marines JP teching: go for the new lerks and some hive OCs. See the marines coming for a start-hive-slaughter: get cloaked skulks and a few OCs to stall them while you res grab. See them going for a 2-hive-lockdown: get quick res and fade asap. I have no idea if these particular suggestions are appropriate, but you get the general idea.
What do you think? At the moment you can start off with a game-plan in mind and never really need to adapt to the environment if it's good. I just like the idea of 'horses for courses' type dynamic strategy...and adaptation is a major theme in Darwinian evolution <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
At the moment if you know for sure, from skulk suicide scouting, that the marines are teching to JPs it's still damn hard to protect against it. All your sacrifices (you lot distract and die to the mines and 'rines, I'll take a look-see...go...) are for nothing, since even though you know exactly what they are up to, and base your defences towards exactly countering this threat, it's still damn hard!
If the game mechanics are changed to just "nerf" the JP rush, then others (say the HMG/mine rush...etc...) will tend to naturally spring up. Balancing using only the 'nerf the currently favored strategy' technique is time-consuming and difficult.
Why not provide more effective, natural counters to particular (broad) strategies that the marines can employ (I say marines in particular because the excellent free scouting abilities of the aliens and their restricted start build lean it that way), such as starting-hive-storm, two-hive-lockdown, res-and-tech-attack etc. If the aliens have slightly more powerful counter-attacks to these broad strategies, then the marines will have to counter spy and change tactics accordingly (or press on with the original plan of course, if they think they are far enough ahead).
I.e. the old Defence>Rush, Rush>Teching, Teching>Defence set-up of many RTSs, but set to a different tune. You must scout and counter-scout to stay ahead of the opponent - it keeps games dynamic. All that is required is effective counters to particular strategies (which differ from RTSs; defence for example is a sucky choice for marines in NS). Many things are solved by this broad approach: teching to a single goal (JPs anyone?) is riskier, because without an obs you can't tell if the aliens are going for the anti-JP strat (whatever that would be...) and building an obs but only scouting with it would be expensive, as an example.
Considering 1.1:
If aliens can truly choose advanced lifeforms and multiple upgrade paths at the 1-hive stage, then this may already apply. See the marines JP teching: go for the new lerks and some hive OCs. See the marines coming for a start-hive-slaughter: get cloaked skulks and a few OCs to stall them while you res grab. See them going for a 2-hive-lockdown: get quick res and fade asap. I have no idea if these particular suggestions are appropriate, but you get the general idea.
What do you think? At the moment you can start off with a game-plan in mind and never really need to adapt to the environment if it's good. I just like the idea of 'horses for courses' type dynamic strategy...and adaptation is a major theme in Darwinian evolution <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
really, if the aliens can forsee what the marines are doing, they should have some sort of counter. if marines jp rush, they should have one, if marines all get HA, aliens should have another.
But of course if the marines see aliens just capping res nodes and saving for fades or onos, they should have an obvious counter to this as well.
i think the aliens may need something more in way of counters... something like, OCs that are best against jetpackers (maybe ones that have a greater vertical range and shoot faster), and OCs that are better against HA (possibly ones with no vertical range, shoot a bit slower, but do more damage).
good counters to each strategy make the game much more dynamic because once you see what the enemy is doing, you can change what you build/equip/evolve into accordingly. this would also make scouting quite invaluable.
counter = kill aliens res
I haven't looked in the strategy forums recently, but if there's nothing there on the subject, why not start a topic or two on counters for strategies. Some really useful and interesting stuff could be come up with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
this idea would require a skulk guarding it to clean up incoming scouts, but a human aspect is what the game is about.
maybe. just a suggestion in addition to the above poster's ideas of possible counters.
TA = why i play NS.
Really, I was just throwing out a general idea that the devs could consider. I think specifics would be hard at this stage. Dunno though, could be worth looking into it now.