Opening Gambit: Structure & Strategy
Ratfire
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15091Members
The marines have a number of variables as to what they can do right when the game starts, much more so than the Kharaa because of the fact that they start with 100 resources. Below is a list of strategies for the first five minutes that hopefully can be debated on and added to, in order to find what works best.
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Location
This is one of the main issues facing the marines on almost every map (excluding the new fun but strategically different maps like siege, missilecommand, etc.) On the one hand, relocating slows down the marine build schedule by about 30 to 45 seconds. In addition, there is no infantry portal available should anyone get killed, which tends to be a major issue. The other danger is, if the aliens decide to rush with 4+ skulks, it is possible to kill the comm chair before a new hive can be relocated. Lastly, the current version of NS, forces TSA marines spawned by the observatory's emergency beacon to appear in the original base, not the relocation.
Benefits? The most obvious is your entire force spawns at a hive, your defense center around the hive, and you have a strong defensible standing in a hive. The game revolves around hive control, 2 hives usually means control of the map. Controlling one hive from the start gives you a secure base of operations to be able to quickly move out on the second hive before the Kharaa can get there.
Bottom Line: Relocating really depends on the preference of the commander. However, if you don't think that your basic marines can stand up to a wave of Kharaa, do not relocate. You stand a much better chance respawning in your main then dying on the way to the hive. If you are planning on relocating, as comm, make sure you listen to the hives. Even before you get an observatory up, if you go to each hive and sit there for a second, you can hear the hive making noise or a gorge building.
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Defense and Construction
The first two buildings are no brainers, you don't even really have a choice, but once you get the infantry portal and the armory. Then the real decision begins.
-Turrets: Turrets were the original defense point when NS first came out, however they really have come to be more of a late defense weapon than an early provider. The problem with turrets is that they are too expensive. You end up paying 20 credits for the factory and 19 credits for a turret, and 39 credits is a lot to expend during the first few minutes of the game. The other problem with turrets is that they require a field of fire to be effective; this means that at minimum, you should probably have 3 turrets defending one area. That comes out to a whopping 77 credits, which when combined with the cost of the infantry portal and the armory mean you have taken up way to much time at the start.
--Bottom Line: Turrets are great weapons, they last longer than anything else, and can be effectively used to hold and defend an area, but at the beginning of the game the are way to costly and time consuming to warrant using.
-Mines: Mines have really come into their own in the past few months. When placed on a wall, they become laser trip mines that are useful for guarding high spaces and vents. When placed on the ground, they become tiny range proximity mines that go off when they get touched. When placed correctly, they are incredibly effective at stopping skulk rushes. Mines are only 8 credits each, so for the price of 1 factory and turret you can get 20 mines to guard your base with. They are not imperfect however, due to the fact that they are easily visible, and avoidable by experienced skulks, as well as incredibly dangerous to the marines themselves once the Kharaa have ranged weapons.
--Bottom Line: Mines are an excellent way to guard an early base. They allow for a greater range of motion for all marines since there is a stationary sentry mine guarding the base. If possible, one or two marines should be left at the base in order to “panic” the incoming skulks thus increasing the chance they will be killed by a mine.
-Arms Lab: Arms lab construction, 3rd after armory, is another effective way for more advanced players to hold back and advance on the Kharaa. The main downfall here is if your marines can’t aim, you’re screwed. The arms lab costs 50 credits up front, which is expensive, however, you can upgrade to weapons level 1 almost right after the arms lab goes up. This increase in weapon power gives you two advantages; Marines expend less ammo to kill the same amount of creatures, and marines kill creatures faster. This means that as long as they can aim, there is a greater chance of survival, and a much quicker expansion rate.
--Bottom Line: This is a tricky tactic to use in a public server. Much of the time, you’ll end up just having wasted the 70 resources since your marines either can’t aim, or don’t feel like traveling together. However, if you have a unified team, with somewhat accurate fighting skills, this is a good option to choose for beginning defense.
-Observatory: Thank you to E-Th33ph for bringing this tactic up. The observatory is another opening build strategy. It allows you to be ready for phase gates later in game, as well as not only giving the ability to upgrade to motion tracking but the immediate ability to use the emergency beacon. The observatory also gives a huge advantage in that it allows the commander to personally radar track alien movement on the minimap. However, aside from that, the observatory gives no immediate value to individual marines, costs 25 resources, and has a fairly large research time on the costly (45 resource) motion tracking ability.
--Bottom Line: It's probably not necessary to build an observatory right away. You can't get motion tracking or use phase gates early in the game, and beacon usually isn't used until an engagement emergency which also tend to happen later. However, setting up for motion tracking and phase gates, as well as giving the commander the ability to call an early warning may warrent it's construction.
Ratfire
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Location
This is one of the main issues facing the marines on almost every map (excluding the new fun but strategically different maps like siege, missilecommand, etc.) On the one hand, relocating slows down the marine build schedule by about 30 to 45 seconds. In addition, there is no infantry portal available should anyone get killed, which tends to be a major issue. The other danger is, if the aliens decide to rush with 4+ skulks, it is possible to kill the comm chair before a new hive can be relocated. Lastly, the current version of NS, forces TSA marines spawned by the observatory's emergency beacon to appear in the original base, not the relocation.
Benefits? The most obvious is your entire force spawns at a hive, your defense center around the hive, and you have a strong defensible standing in a hive. The game revolves around hive control, 2 hives usually means control of the map. Controlling one hive from the start gives you a secure base of operations to be able to quickly move out on the second hive before the Kharaa can get there.
Bottom Line: Relocating really depends on the preference of the commander. However, if you don't think that your basic marines can stand up to a wave of Kharaa, do not relocate. You stand a much better chance respawning in your main then dying on the way to the hive. If you are planning on relocating, as comm, make sure you listen to the hives. Even before you get an observatory up, if you go to each hive and sit there for a second, you can hear the hive making noise or a gorge building.
----------------
Defense and Construction
The first two buildings are no brainers, you don't even really have a choice, but once you get the infantry portal and the armory. Then the real decision begins.
-Turrets: Turrets were the original defense point when NS first came out, however they really have come to be more of a late defense weapon than an early provider. The problem with turrets is that they are too expensive. You end up paying 20 credits for the factory and 19 credits for a turret, and 39 credits is a lot to expend during the first few minutes of the game. The other problem with turrets is that they require a field of fire to be effective; this means that at minimum, you should probably have 3 turrets defending one area. That comes out to a whopping 77 credits, which when combined with the cost of the infantry portal and the armory mean you have taken up way to much time at the start.
--Bottom Line: Turrets are great weapons, they last longer than anything else, and can be effectively used to hold and defend an area, but at the beginning of the game the are way to costly and time consuming to warrant using.
-Mines: Mines have really come into their own in the past few months. When placed on a wall, they become laser trip mines that are useful for guarding high spaces and vents. When placed on the ground, they become tiny range proximity mines that go off when they get touched. When placed correctly, they are incredibly effective at stopping skulk rushes. Mines are only 8 credits each, so for the price of 1 factory and turret you can get 20 mines to guard your base with. They are not imperfect however, due to the fact that they are easily visible, and avoidable by experienced skulks, as well as incredibly dangerous to the marines themselves once the Kharaa have ranged weapons.
--Bottom Line: Mines are an excellent way to guard an early base. They allow for a greater range of motion for all marines since there is a stationary sentry mine guarding the base. If possible, one or two marines should be left at the base in order to “panic” the incoming skulks thus increasing the chance they will be killed by a mine.
-Arms Lab: Arms lab construction, 3rd after armory, is another effective way for more advanced players to hold back and advance on the Kharaa. The main downfall here is if your marines can’t aim, you’re screwed. The arms lab costs 50 credits up front, which is expensive, however, you can upgrade to weapons level 1 almost right after the arms lab goes up. This increase in weapon power gives you two advantages; Marines expend less ammo to kill the same amount of creatures, and marines kill creatures faster. This means that as long as they can aim, there is a greater chance of survival, and a much quicker expansion rate.
--Bottom Line: This is a tricky tactic to use in a public server. Much of the time, you’ll end up just having wasted the 70 resources since your marines either can’t aim, or don’t feel like traveling together. However, if you have a unified team, with somewhat accurate fighting skills, this is a good option to choose for beginning defense.
-Observatory: Thank you to E-Th33ph for bringing this tactic up. The observatory is another opening build strategy. It allows you to be ready for phase gates later in game, as well as not only giving the ability to upgrade to motion tracking but the immediate ability to use the emergency beacon. The observatory also gives a huge advantage in that it allows the commander to personally radar track alien movement on the minimap. However, aside from that, the observatory gives no immediate value to individual marines, costs 25 resources, and has a fairly large research time on the costly (45 resource) motion tracking ability.
--Bottom Line: It's probably not necessary to build an observatory right away. You can't get motion tracking or use phase gates early in the game, and beacon usually isn't used until an engagement emergency which also tend to happen later. However, setting up for motion tracking and phase gates, as well as giving the commander the ability to call an early warning may warrent it's construction.
Ratfire
Comments
This one is toward relocation. It was my belief that one possible disadvantage of relocating is the inability to use the observatory's emergency beacon. However, Takel brought up a good point in another post. Most of the time, a gorge will have taken the resource tower in the starting area, but not really built anything else. Therefore, if your hive base is getting raped and you use the emergency beacon, chances are, the marines will spawn in a safe location where they can either rebuild, or regroup and hit the aliens unexpectedly.
Ratfire
This one is toward relocation. It was my belief that one possible disadvantage of relocating is the inability to use the observatory's emergency beacon. However, Takel brought up a good point in another post. Most of the time, a gorge will have taken the resource tower in the starting area, but not really built anything else. Therefore, if your hive base is getting raped and you use the emergency beacon, chances are, the marines will spawn in a safe location where they can either rebuild, or regroup and hit the aliens unexpectedly.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, funniest thing i have ever seen is that we had relocated, a gorge was building a res in our old base
b00m -> Commander uses beacon
And then <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> (with knives of course <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
I have been using mines for along time. The key to them catching on is players have finaly begune to watch how good miners place them and copy. When i place mines I drop them around blind coners, common aproaches and near important building. I allso mine Res points and drop random mines in vents. Putting mines on walls in door ways is basicly just a waste of mines since in order to make beams dense enough to keep out skulks you have to place them close togetehr which mean a single skulk can blow them all.
This first post does not go into strats, only what basic things you have at your disposal.. hmm
For instance in the beginning let's imagine a rine team that takes a hive. They spend most of their time building building.. while gorge builds res all over the map. Meanwhile aliens pressure rines in that hive, and by the time marines finally roll out the gorge is walling up every single res node. I really hate that sh*t <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> This is rather map specific, in fact it was nancy, although nothing is like it too.
I love to rambo, and on hera especially it's relatively easy to get around and you can nail the fatty.
-Arms Lab: Arms lab construction, 3rd after armory, is another effective way for more advanced players to hold back and advance on the Kharaa. The main downfall here is if your marines can’t aim, you’re screwed. The arms lab costs 50 credits up front, which is expensive, however, you can upgrade to weapons level 1 almost right after the arms lab goes up.
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There is no reason at all to take lv1 weapons from an immediate arms lab. ALWAYS get lv1 armour in this situation. Due to the way marine and alien weapons/armour round up, lv1 armour allows you to take an additional bite (This is a big deal) while lv1 LMG upgrade does <b>absolutely nothing</b> prior to carapace. Taking lv1 weapons first may be justified if your arms lab comes later and you are fighting carapaced skulks, but with an immediate armoury lv1 armour is the only reasonable choice.
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--Bottom Line: This is a tricky tactic to use in a public server. Much of the time, you’ll end up just having wasted the 70 resources since your marines either can’t aim, or don’t feel like traveling together.
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An arms lab and a permanent upgrade is never a waste of resources. The arms lab is an important stepping stone to higher level tech, and you give your marines an upgrade that will benefit them untill the end of the game.
Besides what's already listed, you can add an Observatory and upgraded motion tracking to your build list. A lot of people will do IP->armory optional->obs->motion tracking.
I see it most often on public servers, as clanners usually have the skill to listen out those aliens and sometimes the tracking gets in the way of your shot like a waypoint.
However, I have to say I'm pleased to see an intelligent person giving out good strats. All too often, people won't explain anything to the newbies, so when they get told their wrong, they're just voted out or even kicked.
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Not true, this game is not hive control, is about expanding, and putting pressure on hives. Hive lockdown is not only expensive, its extremely difficult to do with aliens harassing you. And while you are being harassed, the alien gorge is building RTs and expanding to a second hive, so by the time you secure a hive, the aliens have secured theirs.
Please do not get into mindset where locking down hives is vital to victory, because its not, you need only to prevent the aliens from expanding.
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Chances are, if the relocation team (AKA almost the whole team except comm) gets slaughtered, your gonna lose, regardless of the 1 IP in your base. I think the discussion on "To build or not to build" when relocating has been brought up. The 1 IP does not help.
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You're right, but first of all, this guide was mainly meant for the first few minutes of the game. I'm sorry if this came out wrong, basically what I meant, not hive lockdown, but hive control. Whether or not you decide to relocate, gaining a hive early in the game is crucial, and part of gaining is not only holding onto the hive you "secured" but also moving out and expanding as you said, as quickly as possible.