Ok, now I shall run around in circles and repeat again for those who dont understand. "Stopsound isnt a exploit, cheat, hack or anything else"
Does it give you an advantage over the other player? NOooo nononononononononoooooo and finally, no
If someone spams stopsound, they wont be able to hear anything, and will be reduced to a person who is sitting hitting up and enter in his console, he will die.
I think you're missing the point. If stopsound only stopped sounds for one milisecond, it wouldn't ever be used. But it's not. It's stopping sounds a lot longer than that. Therefore, while we are hearing those sounds, others are not. Which would mean to me that it is an exploit.
I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness. All that's left are the stubborn people on both sides and whether either side is right or wrong is up for the devs to decide.
Someone come enlighten us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Mar 19 2003, 04:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 19 2003, 04:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think you're missing the point. If stopsound only stopped sounds for one milisecond, it wouldn't ever be used. But it's not. It's stopping sounds a lot longer than that. Therefore, while we are hearing those sounds, others are not. Which would mean to me that it is an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, stopsound only stops currently playing sounds.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Mar 19 2003, 12:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Mar 19 2003, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Mar 19 2003, 04:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 19 2003, 04:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think you're missing the point. If stopsound only stopped sounds for one milisecond, it wouldn't ever be used. But it's not. It's stopping sounds a lot longer than that. Therefore, while we are hearing those sounds, others are not. Which would mean to me that it is an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, stopsound only stops currently playing sounds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, but if that sound is looping (such as an elevator) it can be stopped from playing again until it is retriggered.
I agree with babygirl in one aspect: we're going to get nowhere.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Mar 19 2003, 01:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 19 2003, 01:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I prefer the loose interpretation, if you can do it, then either you are meant to, or it will be fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can install OGC....... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol, i meant within the context of the game. Meaning in-game commands and such. I have the distinct feeling you knew this too. Oh NS politics, how I love thee.
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Mar 18 2003, 10:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 18 2003, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, but if that sound is looping (such as an elevator) it can be stopped from playing again until it is retriggered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And as a note... ALL map-ambience sounds are re-triggered on a set cycle based on how long the samples are.
So StopSound doesn't work that well, hon. The biggest point also, is that the map makers themselves have pointed to every place where StopSound would be even remotely useful to shut up over-loud ambient sounds... and said it's a bug in their maps.
There's nowhere you can say that StopSound gives you an advantage that my custom-tweaked EAX settings and headphones don't equal or best. I'm one of those nutcases that has two seperate computers sometimes to do things like pipe the output of one sound card into the input of another that does (relatively speaking) massive editing and equalization to it. Is that cheating?
Is it any different if I do it all on one computer, instead of on two seperate ones?
What about if I use something like a programmable CAD-tablet mouse to let me bind multiple keys and mouse clicks to one button on the mouse? One-click health-spam, for anyone that has relatively outdated hardware and feels like using it.
Hell, some of the older mice did the 'macros' by 'clicking' on the screen at multiple places in a set pattern. Still one-click health spam, but by 'manually' clicking on equipment, health, and where I was clicking before. Is that any different?
What about if I use a custom mouse driver to do the same thing with an everyday USB mouse?
The problem with claiming 'stopsound' is an exploit, hack, or cheat when playtesters, map designers, and everyone else pretty much says it isn't, and lists multiple reasons, is that it makes you look and sound like a scrub. Claiming it's no different than r_drawviewmodel, when the dev-team (highest authority there is) has said <b>that</b> is an explain, while stopsound isn't... sounds even more brainless.
And if any of my above 'hardware hacks' are exploits or cheats... then how are they any different than someone that has a dual-1.4Ghz proc and a Radeon 9x00 series, with highly-tuned graphics and sound and network settings because I understand the technical, visual, and audible reasons for doing every adjustment I've made?
Compare that to someone playing NS on a P200MMX w/ a TNT2 card and a Sound Blaster Pro on Win95.
I think you're all silly... ( as usual ) <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it's in there for a reason, so why not use it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The reason is to stop sounds that glitch and thus starts looping continuosly NOT to stop sounds that are supposed to be there As for too loud sound's I see you're point though But ears that bleed are prolly just you fiddling with the volume to much
so medhead, you are one of those players that denounces bunnyhopping, use of any scripts what so ever, and any customization of half-life right? Laaaaaamer. I use r_drawview and so many more things that are all options in half-life. And yeah, beleive it or not, i use stopsound every now and then so I can actually hear whats going on around me...
wait a second. I use stopsound so i can HEAR, and r_drawview so I can SEE....jeez I must be such a bad person, and a bad player for that! See, I got this real moron thing I do, its called <i>thinking</i>...And I dont think that i'm a bad player because I like to form my own opinions, and customize my own game. Sad to say, most players (like you) roll over, on command. Not me. I look at my environment and figure out how to improve it so I can improve my gameplay. Half of the stuff I found, people like you denounce because you either werent smart enough to figure it out, or you just cant do it.
I dont know what the point of this is. People need to stop thinking that everything is an exploit and just play the damn game.
***The following is hypothetical and sarcastic******
All these fancy textures make my computer too slow to play so, I installed a wall hack so that my frame rate doesn't drop when I see a fancy texture. Just because you didn't think of this makes you a whiner.
agreeing with torak, this whole set of console commands and supposed cheats is one massive gray area.
wallhack is obviously bad, and stopsound is obviously okay, and rdraw is somewhere in between, but who gets to draw the line? and where will it go? willw e get to customize our games further or restricted to play it with the exact specs of the dev's machines?
maybe i want to run halflife on a 33 Mhz with 16KB of video ram, so i reprogram my opengl drivers to not draw textures but instead wireframes, is that technically wallhack? im not using any third party cheats, merely tweaking for my system!
but if i go for full fledged realism and install some sort of pain registering peripheral, like a spike that jabs me when i get shot. would i really want to play?
now of course i am exaggerating all of this, but it is to clarify a point that is too difficult to explain in normal terms.
Mappers/devs just should not try to annoy players with loud sounds. Hive beat, phase gate hum... omg... That can't be good for mental health... I'ts just irritating... BTW I don't use stopsound in NS... But I rather use it in some dod maps, like thunder or ramelle... Just for my poor ears sake
GUYS! Binding kp_end "weapon 1" is an exploit because I can pull out my weapon faster than someone who uses scroll to change weapons, OMG flayra please take it out in 1.1, OMG OMG OMG.
.....
Ok, with that out of the way, stopsound is very fair and if you think different then just read the above a few more times until the sarcasm sets in real deep.
In all honesty, using the stopsound command is extremly useless. Using this command is not an exploit. But, you say, "Jeff, it stops the sounds from being played, thus takes away from the atmosphere of the game." While that may be true, there are more important thing that take away from the atmosphere. Such as r_drawviewmodel 0. Although I do agree that drawview is an exploit, I feel that stopsound is on a different plane as drawview.
There are better things to be bickering about, such as the blatant balance issues which have been said over and over and bear no more repeating. It would seem to me that many people just argue for the sake of arguing.
The original poster did the correct thing by announcing he was using this command. If other's don't like it, they can leave and go play where it's unacceptable to use such things as a "console" for "binding keys", finding out how many kills you have with the "status" command, and "exiting" the game.
How is r_drawmodel an exploit? Its not like Khara really see out of their mouths! And it means you can't see Hivesight, JP fuel, adrenaline, Motion Tracking etc, so really it just represents the marin shutting his HUD off, or an alien disconecting from the hive mind to ease itself from distractins temporaily.
Stop sound is needed somtimes when HL goes mad, but it would be cool to have some really loud areas of the game which mask the footsteps of other players, which cannot be turned off by stopsound.
yeah, but once you are used to it you don't even SEE the skulk jaws anymore, I don't notice them and my firend who I was showing NS to asked if the chomping jaws were distracting, and it took a while for me to remember they were there!
R_drawmodel disadvantages you anyway, as you can't see hivesight/ MT. So it doesn't matter if someone uses it! Its only usefull when you have camping marines who are hiding in hivesight in the vents into cargo who you can't see, that is annoying.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Mar 19 2003, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Mar 19 2003, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By turning models off you lose vital information. On marines, you cant see your JP fuel, MOTION TRACKING, building health, and the mini-map.
As aliens, you lose hive sight, building health, your allies health, which hive is under attack, which upgrade you have, and your energy bar.
What do you gain? You gain a field of vision, and you can actually see the playing field! Its a fair trade off....get over it.
Oh yeah, why is it, that there is a numerical, and a visual representation of resources for alien? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought Flayra (the Judge, Jury, and Executioner) has already spoken on the 'drawmodel issue'.
Flayra is an excellent person, who has made this wonderfull mod, but that doesn't make him the moral judge over everyone who plays it! The server admins of individual servers are the people who can decide what is banable and what is not, the mod creators might object to a map like ns_siege, but its a fun map and people enjoy it.
r_drawviewmodel is NOT an exlpoit in my opinion, although I don't use it as it disadvantages you. IMHO
Please explain to me what the disadvantage of r_drawviewmodel 0 is when you have a script that turns it off when you press attack and on when you release it.
It can be done, in fact, i have seen multiple scripts out there that do it.
<!--QuoteBegin--d0omie+Mar 19 2003, 11:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (d0omie @ Mar 19 2003, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Flayra is an excellent person, who has made this wonderfull mod, but that doesn't make him the moral judge over everyone who plays it! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But it does make him the judge of what is an exploit and what isn't. He doesn't make rules about what is allowed on a particular server, but he does make the rules for the game. Get used to living with the jaws because they'll be hardcoded to "on" next version.
Every single playtester/dev agrees that r_drawviewmodel is an exploit. It is supposed to be like that. The command will be locked to 1 in 1.1 I think, enjoy it while you can, but it is still an exploit to the creators/testers of the game.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Y'know, if it's <b>really</b> an issue with incorrectly looping sounds, you *can* just hit ESC and choose 'Resume Game'. You're out of the action for a good few seconds, so you have to find a fairly safe spot to do it.. I usually have to once a map, as 'stopsound' doesn't fix things when EAX screws up and starts applying the 'walking in a tunnel' effect, and never takes it off again.
If it's not an issue, why not just let people ESC/Resume if they have a bad loop? They have to deal with it for a few seconds while they're getting to safety, but after which it provides the same effect. Heck, it'd even promote teamwork on the Marine side a little more, while thoroughly removing any possibility of it being an exploit. "Guys, cover me for a sec." "What's wrong?" "That elevator we came down bugged on me.. I can't hear jack." "Okay." <five seconds later> "All right, let's move."
No, hammering a bind of it would have down sides. But tapping a button once every fifteen to thirty seconds (assuming the sample is that long, thereby taking that long between triggers) <i>would</i> provide a massive advantage to anyone hiding out in that particular spot. For thirty seconds at a time, with a tiny window of not-hearing-footsteps, which trigger far more often than <b>most</b> ambient sounds.
If you have a silent room with a bee in it, you will hear the bee almost instantly. If you have a room with a bee and a quietly running fan in it, you will stand a MUCH lesser chance of noticing the buzz.. not from the sound of the fan 'covering' it, but because you don't have the 'Sound/No Sound' distinction.
Comments
Does it give you an advantage over the other player? NOooo
nononononononononoooooo
and finally, no
If someone spams stopsound, they wont be able to hear anything, and will be reduced to a person who is sitting hitting up and enter in his console, he will die.
Stopsound is not an exploit, cheat, or hack
Someone come enlighten us <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
No, stopsound only stops currently playing sounds.
No, stopsound only stops currently playing sounds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but if that sound is looping (such as an elevator) it can be stopped from playing again until it is retriggered.
I agree with babygirl in one aspect: we're going to get nowhere.
I can install OGC....... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, i meant within the context of the game. Meaning in-game commands and such. I have the distinct feeling you knew this too. Oh NS politics, how I love thee.
And as a note... ALL map-ambience sounds are re-triggered on a set cycle based on how long the samples are.
So StopSound doesn't work that well, hon. The biggest point also, is that the map makers themselves have pointed to every place where StopSound would be even remotely useful to shut up over-loud ambient sounds... and said it's a bug in their maps.
There's nowhere you can say that StopSound gives you an advantage that my custom-tweaked EAX settings and headphones don't equal or best. I'm one of those nutcases that has two seperate computers sometimes to do things like pipe the output of one sound card into the input of another that does (relatively speaking) massive editing and equalization to it. Is that cheating?
Is it any different if I do it all on one computer, instead of on two seperate ones?
What about if I use something like a programmable CAD-tablet mouse to let me bind multiple keys and mouse clicks to one button on the mouse? One-click health-spam, for anyone that has relatively outdated hardware and feels like using it.
Hell, some of the older mice did the 'macros' by 'clicking' on the screen at multiple places in a set pattern. Still one-click health spam, but by 'manually' clicking on equipment, health, and where I was clicking before. Is that any different?
What about if I use a custom mouse driver to do the same thing with an everyday USB mouse?
The problem with claiming 'stopsound' is an exploit, hack, or cheat when playtesters, map designers, and everyone else pretty much says it isn't, and lists multiple reasons, is that it makes you look and sound like a scrub. Claiming it's no different than r_drawviewmodel, when the dev-team (highest authority there is) has said <b>that</b> is an explain, while stopsound isn't... sounds even more brainless.
And if any of my above 'hardware hacks' are exploits or cheats... then how are they any different than someone that has a dual-1.4Ghz proc and a Radeon 9x00 series, with highly-tuned graphics and sound and network settings because I understand the technical, visual, and audible reasons for doing every adjustment I've made?
Compare that to someone playing NS on a P200MMX w/ a TNT2 card and a Sound Blaster Pro on Win95.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it's in there for a reason, so why not use it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason is to stop sounds that glitch and thus starts looping continuosly
NOT to stop sounds that are supposed to be there
As for too loud sound's I see you're point though
But ears that bleed are prolly just you fiddling with the volume to much
wait a second. I use stopsound so i can HEAR, and r_drawview so I can SEE....jeez I must be such a bad person, and a bad player for that! See, I got this real moron thing I do, its called <i>thinking</i>...And I dont think that i'm a bad player because I like to form my own opinions, and customize my own game. Sad to say, most players (like you) roll over, on command. Not me. I look at my environment and figure out how to improve it so I can improve my gameplay. Half of the stuff I found, people like you denounce because you either werent smart enough to figure it out, or you just cant do it.
I dont know what the point of this is. People need to stop thinking that everything is an exploit and just play the damn game.
All these fancy textures make my computer too slow to play so, I installed a wall hack so that my frame rate doesn't drop when I see a fancy texture. Just because you didn't think of this makes you a whiner.
wallhack is obviously bad, and stopsound is obviously okay, and rdraw is somewhere in between, but who gets to draw the line? and where will it go? willw e get to customize our games further or restricted to play it with the exact specs of the dev's machines?
maybe i want to run halflife on a 33 Mhz with 16KB of video ram, so i reprogram my opengl drivers to not draw textures but instead wireframes, is that technically wallhack? im not using any third party cheats, merely tweaking for my system!
but if i go for full fledged realism and install some sort of pain registering peripheral, like a spike that jabs me when i get shot. would i really want to play?
now of course i am exaggerating all of this, but it is to clarify a point that is too difficult to explain in normal terms.
GUYS! Binding kp_end "weapon 1" is an exploit because I can pull out my weapon faster than someone who uses scroll to change weapons, OMG flayra please take it out in 1.1, OMG OMG OMG.
.....
Ok, with that out of the way, stopsound is very fair and if you think different then just read the above a few more times until the sarcasm sets in real deep.
Stopsound is a very minor issue in my opinion. I've never bothered to even try using it to take advantage, exploit or no-exploit.
There are better things to be bickering about, such as the blatant balance issues which have been said over and over and bear no more repeating. It would seem to me that many people just argue for the sake of arguing.
The original poster did the correct thing by announcing he was using this command. If other's don't like it, they can leave and go play where it's unacceptable to use such things as a "console" for "binding keys", finding out how many kills you have with the "status" command, and "exiting" the game.
Stop sound is needed somtimes when HL goes mad, but it would be cool to have some really loud areas of the game which mask the footsteps of other players, which cannot be turned off by stopsound.
R_drawmodel disadvantages you anyway, as you can't see hivesight/ MT. So it doesn't matter if someone uses it! Its only usefull when you have camping marines who are hiding in hivesight in the vents into cargo who you can't see, that is annoying.
By turning models off you lose vital information. On marines, you cant see your JP fuel, MOTION TRACKING, building health, and the mini-map.
As aliens, you lose hive sight, building health, your allies health, which hive is under attack, which upgrade you have, and your energy bar.
What do you gain? You gain a field of vision, and you can actually see the playing field! Its a fair trade off....get over it.
Oh yeah, why is it, that there is a numerical, and a visual representation of resources for alien?
As aliens, you lose hive sight, building health, your allies health, which hive is under attack, which upgrade you have, and your energy bar.
What do you gain? You gain a field of vision, and you can actually see the playing field! Its a fair trade off....get over it.
Oh yeah, why is it, that there is a numerical, and a visual representation of resources for alien? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought Flayra (the Judge, Jury, and Executioner) has already spoken on the 'drawmodel issue'.
r_drawviewmodel is NOT an exlpoit in my opinion, although I don't use it as it disadvantages you. IMHO
It can be done, in fact, i have seen multiple scripts out there that do it.
But it does make him the judge of what is an exploit and what isn't. He doesn't make rules about what is allowed on a particular server, but he does make the rules for the game. Get used to living with the jaws because they'll be hardcoded to "on" next version.
If it's not an issue, why not just let people ESC/Resume if they have a bad loop? They have to deal with it for a few seconds while they're getting to safety, but after which it provides the same effect. Heck, it'd even promote teamwork on the Marine side a little more, while thoroughly removing any possibility of it being an exploit.
"Guys, cover me for a sec."
"What's wrong?"
"That elevator we came down bugged on me.. I can't hear jack."
"Okay."
<five seconds later>
"All right, let's move."
No, hammering a bind of it would have down sides. But tapping a button once every fifteen to thirty seconds (assuming the sample is that long, thereby taking that long between triggers) <i>would</i> provide a massive advantage to anyone hiding out in that particular spot. For thirty seconds at a time, with a tiny window of not-hearing-footsteps, which trigger far more often than <b>most</b> ambient sounds.
If you have a silent room with a bee in it, you will hear the bee almost instantly. If you have a room with a bee and a quietly running fan in it, you will stand a MUCH lesser chance of noticing the buzz.. not from the sound of the fan 'covering' it, but because you don't have the 'Sound/No Sound' distinction.