Ns_complex

Ollj · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Here it comes</div> <a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_complex07.zip' target='_blank'>Download ns_complex07 (slightly architecutre improvements) here.</a> (+improved map-hologram)
<a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_complex06.zip' target='_blank'>Download ns_complex06 (white light) here.</a> (featuring the map-hologram)
<a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_complex05b.zip' target='_blank'>Download ns_complex05 (b = 2 stupid filename fixes) here.</a> (oops link fixed) = version found on mayberrygames.
<a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_complex03.zip' target='_blank'>Download ns_complex03 (alpha) here. (if the upper gives some error try this) </a>
Read the FAQ text document.

<b>Im open for any suggestions found places with high r_speeds and bug reports.</b>

<b>Actual version 06 + 07 (almost beta?):</b>
- White light all over , no more disco lights (for now).
- Most rooms have no inner details
- some doors, Elevators and triggers are missing
- Textures can be done better
- Comand console bug solved by changing the "choose from feature" . its not completed but works.
- apart from this its "playable"

reached max-map clipnodes...

<b>next version has:</b>
- more textures matching to the NS world and aligned correctly
- final aditions making the map ready for betatesting
- all elevators and doors working
- some more vents and other inner gameplay detail.
- slightly lowered command view for better r_speeds
- improved RR and Marine spawn.

<b>Screenshot:</b>
The new Marine Spawn including the new hologram-3Dminimap-model (early version).

Liku · March 2003

That looks HUGE! Now another map to get lost in! But I'll test it non-the-less! Also, I'll add the Final to the Map Pack, if that's ok with you. ~_^

rimj0b_r0dent · March 2003

I agree that it huge. It also completely froze my computer in comm mode. The yellow textures look pretty ugly in the ready room.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Looks fun i dl'd it. where can i play it like a server?

Ollj · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rimj0b r0dent @ Mar 16 2003, 07:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It also completely froze my computer in comm mode </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That should not happen and never happened to me on this version. (just on other maps/versions for other reasons).
What could cause this?
sky brush, func_seetrough, 1000 w-poly (normal in comm mode).
no idea.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>where can i play it like a server?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Its Alpha status not mentioned to get playtested on any server, allthough i want to see it for fun and performance testing.
open your own lan game with it.

rimj0b_r0dent · March 2003

I was scrolling around comm mode to see the map, and then I get to this white hallway around the center of the map, it froze. But I just might be my computer, it does this sometimes, although it never happened before in Half-Life.

Tiio · March 2003

Ehm... well.

My real thoughts on this map would get me banned.

But...

Never. Map. Again.

Please. I beg of you.

*goes to stab out his eyes*

masterswordman · March 2003

I didn't download it, but it looks too damn huge, what is the <span style='color:gray'>lowest</span> r_speed?

Sephiroth2k · March 2003

Tiio: CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. don't say "o liek taht is teh sux cuz i haet it. dnot map agian!!!1one" try saying why you hate it and what he can do to make it better.
i myself am downloading the map now and will try it soon.

masterswordman · March 2003

Well, I got 2 essays to write tonight, I am out, I don't have time to download and/or try the map, maybe tomorrow.

Liku · March 2003

Okie, I tested the map and I have to say it's pretty good for starters. But the Textures need ALOT of fixing. I could barely find a Res Node, and why the hell did I have to build the CC?

Sephiroth2k · March 2003

yea i dled the map and the texturing needs a lot of work, but im assuming most of the textures were placeholders until you finished all the architecture down? also on the architecture.. in some spots it doesnt make sense, paths for no reason, that sort of stuff.. just get the basic layout done now then slowly work on fixing the architecture..

iddqd · March 2003

ok, for this alpha version:

1.) fullbright is bad, but you know that
2.) textures are bad, but you know that. remember, too many different textures make the eyes wanna scream.
3.) make sure lighting is good.
4.) your outside looks bad when looking from the window back towards where they spawn in at. there's a lighter area.
5.) the map is confusing, but I like how you did that stuff anyways.

Tiio · March 2003

Sephiroth: My advice is to improve everything.

So much is wrong with this map I cannot begin to explain it.

The fullbright. The random brushes strewn about. The randomly textured brushes. All of it thrown into larger, more random, worse textured boxes. No architecture. No working doors.

This isn't the kind of thing you release on these forums.

Redford · March 2003

The status of this map was listed in the inital post as an EARLY BETA BUILD. IT IS NOT COMPLETE YET, DO NOT JUDGE ANY ELEMENT OF THE MAP BASED ON WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM A COMPLETE MAP EXCEPT THE BRUSHWORK AND R-SPEEDS.

This map was released for people to examine the flow, how the map's brush placement looks, and to gauge r-speeds. It was clearly stated that this map was compiled in fullbright on purpose because lighting was not done yet, to save compile time.

Do not bash this man's map simply because it's a beta release, and do what he asked you to do.

Mendasp · March 2003

And if you don't do/understand/read what he asked, at least, don't post.

Jedediah · March 2003

Fullbright maps tend to crash half life on many people's machines and they also seem to run much slower for some reason. This seems to be what is happening with many of the testers here. Try adding some simple temporary lights and running hlrad.

Also, can we see some screenshots? I'm curious to see this map but I don't have time to start up HL at the moment.

Sephiroth2k · March 2003

Tiio: who are you to say what he can and can not post on these forums? It's an ALPHA so obviously he knows he needs to put a lot of work into it.
Also in the readyroom i fell off the map, might wanna look into that.

kawak · March 2003

I like to loose myself in hudge map, so the layout looks pretty cool <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
This map seems to be a challenge for the hl engine
(just 400/750 wpoly when looking from the window ...u are the opimisation's king! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )

Keep up the good job!

marcos · March 2003

I did a runaround and this is my thoughts:

- The "very big room" (sorry I dont remember the name) has some big fps drops. This because of some high r_speeds and animated textures. You also got a hive there. I usaly get 72 fps, when I was standing in the room I got 40.

- Marine Spawn got some nasty r_speeds too.

- When I was running around the map, I felt like it was a bad single-player map. I could not rember where anything was, and the architecture changed from room to room -making it allmost a "find your way by your self" feeling. (Yes I know it's in alpha stages <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

- Some of thoose rooms was great cunstructed. With nice useage of textures/details combined.

Well, looks like you have a very solid start here. I would love to see it when you changed the lighting and textured it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
Good luck

Darkhound · March 2003

It's hard for me to give good feedback when so much of the level is undone. Texturing and lighting are a huge part of a map's soul, and your map doesn't have those yet.

Having said that, what I noticed the most was the vast abundance of hallways going every which way. You said the map was twice as large as the release maps, and it shows. Maybe cutting down on the number of areas or hallways would make for a tigher, more cohesive map. Or maybe I have played it enough to become used to the architecture, I'm not sure.

As far as performance goes, the map's r_speeds are amazingly low. The are few places on the map that even go over 250, let alone 800. There is one window where you can see most of the outside of the map though -- the r_speeds there hit about 750 or so.

So, you still have a long, long way to go, but keep working on it.

Merkaba · March 2003

The way the map is heading and the general architecture you have laid out looks promising...very original in places and interesting compositions. My main concern however is the commander's r_speeds. At the moment they're peaking around 1500, or somewhere to that extent - and you don't even have any detail in the rooms yet. I get the feeling this is because of the multi-leveled nature of the map...you may have to consider a rework of the layout if the r_speeds will be as bad as I think they will be.

Fieari · March 2003

I find it slightly disconcerting that "Blah" hive... which is in a very pretty room, I like the electricity conduits... can barely be seen from commander mode, even if you ping it. It requires looking at it from a very specific angle and isn't intuitive at all. Not sure how one would go about solving that problem though.

The node at Observatory LS cannot be seen from commander mode AT ALL, although you can still place a tower there if you know it's there.

I personally experienced no speed difficulties.

Those placeholder textures are the ugliest things I have ever seen.

Having the Ready Room visible from in game? That's... interesting. I also experienced a bug with the join teams... I went marines (sv_cheats 1), then later F4'd, and tried joining aliens. Instead of joining, I fell off the map and got to look at things from below. F4ing again did nothing, since I was technically still "in the ready room".

There was a 2nd Command Chair locateed outside the boundaries of the map, in a no build zone. That's just odd.

What's with the blue cube in Cargo Control?

The map is huge, and somewhat confusing to navigate. I can find Blah hive from the marine start, and the marine start from Blah hive, but the other hives I just get lost trying to find my way to and from them. I suspect less eye jarring textures and lighting will help this situation.

Good luck on the r_speed issue, by the way.

Ollj · March 2003

<b>ns_complex03 released</b> see the first post...
Its the same **** as ns_complex02 just with some bare Lightning.
Its 100% red, green or blue on most places, to help the command mode (ant all players) to know in what level they are.
Later the light will have more than just one colorfor each path, i promise.

Ollj · March 2003

<b>ns_complex04 released</b> see the first post...
slightly improved texturing (next version will no longer have -wandinclude).
Readyroom enlarged.
Fixed some minor bugs.

LNXSilverhawk · March 2003

im testing it too.. nice work

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>why the hell did I have to build the CC? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
good question

Ollj · March 2003

ns_complex05 released see the first post...
some vents and one elevator added.
Small improvements all over.

do you like that usage of "motion blur"?

boberto · March 2003

it looks pretty cool, but i think that reactor hive might be a little unbalanced... just because the current trend seems to be, whoever holds the middle hive wins. then again, the other 2 hives are so close to marine spawn.... who knows. try to make them all with as equal distance as possible to marine spawn, and for each hive to have a way to it that is the same walking distance from marine spawn as to any other hive. other than that its cool, i just think making the hives all equal distances makes things much more balanced.

Hopelessness · March 2003

The link for complex5 seems to link to complex4. It's still possible to download complex5 with common sense, but you should probably fix that link.

Ollj · March 2003

The hives distances are ballanced, as I tested it all alone:
There are 2 "special vents":
from "Mother Hive" to "Storage" and from "Communication Hive" to "Black mensa".
Theese vents stay locked till anything enters "black mensa" or "storage" !
After that you can open (and close) theese vents but only from inside the hive location.
the distances from hive to hive and CC to hives are always "75" (in eclipse it are "40")

The map plays like this:
Marines decide for one of the 2 CC places.
When they reach one CC location its func nobuild gets killed, the cc in the other location stays locked.
The choosen CC locations vent entrances lock themself, the light turns on.
In the unused CC location light stays off and the vents stay open.

The problem is that Marines need to build the cc first. (sad part of the 2 cc`s feature)
On the other side aliens need some time to reach the right CC (the shortcut is locked at game start).
They even could have rushed the unused CC location.
Now since the map is like a "knot" its easy to siege from some locations.
Every large room is a possible siege location for the hive next to it. (There is no double siege point.)

Now you could siege from Black Mensa or Storage early and make a short game you think?
But wehenever something enters that rooms some vents, leading to that rooms from different locations, open, controlled from inside the hive location.
This "special vent" shortcuts give Aliens a big advantage against marines, no matter wich hive they have.
Without jp you cant use that vent as marine to reach the hive.
The alternatives are taking Party Hall, Mining Entrance or the other CC room first. From this locations you can reach other locations faster.
But aliens can enable the 2 "special vents" (make openable) just by its presence, too.

When it comes to siege positions this is a marine map, but long distances, parallel vents (aliens can always attack from behind below or above) and door controll make it an alien map.

Ns_complex

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