ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
jower, you need to get your eyes checked out, you can detect noticable differences in things over 30fps (when it gets near 10 you should have problems)
oh and <a href='http://half-life.gamehelp.com/' target='_blank'>I AM HL</a>
well i have fps at 99, and i still cant see any difference... what am i doing wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> i know i typed it correctly in the console and nothing happens, could this be a cos of the server i tried it in <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
well i have checked my fps and its over 90... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
actually somebody asked me how to get 32bit rendering in half-life and mods. actually when you installed NS it asked you if you wanted 32bit in NS and then it does it for you but in case you didn't choose it in the install or you want it in all mods of HL then you have to put in all their config.cfg or autoexec.cfg the line:
gl_dither "0"
and as a command line parameter you have to put:
-32bpp
you should probably do these 2 things for HL itself and each mod. you have to put that -32bpp thing in each shortcut and in the advanced settings of Gamespy as well i think.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Jower+Mar 2 2003, 11:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jower @ Mar 2 2003, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thats what im saying You cant see things over 30 anyway... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well.. the average person can't. Those who have trained their eyes can distinguish a difference between 30 and 70fps. It's just that 30fps is the 'norm' for accepted smooth movement.. 24fps (movie grade) is still possible. One reason to cap your FPS rate: unless you're using a modified driver, Windows caps OpenGL vsync rates to 60hz /anyway/. So you'll get nasty tearing if you keep going higher, without modding your monitor driver. Another is that all that extra CPU time could be put to better use on other things; background processes still need processor time, and if you timeslice that thin, you'll get UNSTEADY framerates, which are what look terrible. Cap down to 30-60 if you can get higher, and you'll get less initial frame-drop when you come into a complex (read: highly built by Marines) area.
Really, the only reason to have your FPS rate above 60 is to use the fps-related exploits. Which will be removed in v1.1 ANYWAY, so it's better to just get used to playing the game as it's meant to be played. Cap down. You'll see a marked improvement in performance overall.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jower+Mar 2 2003, 02:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jower @ Mar 2 2003, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats what im saying You cant see things over 30 anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry to say this, but either you have an occular problem or you are just NOT looking. Open your eyes. The average human eye can detect the difference in framerates up to <b><u>72</u></b> FPS. Above that, it depends on the person. In general, you won't see the difference between 65 and 80, but YOU WILL see the diference between 55 and 75.
One thing to remember, 24fps is THE MINIMAL acceptable framerate (and even then... ewww), 30fps is smooth, and <b><u>60</u></b> FPS and above is <i>silky smooth</i>.
If you cannot see the difference between 30 and 60 fps, you are vision-impaired <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> .
You will really see the difference between 30 and 60 fps when you turn around quickly.
I recommander putting your fps_max to 72 (the highest fps the average human eye can detect) or to 60 (for silky smooth @$$ kicking). If your computer can handle 60fps constent (type cl_showfps 1 in the console), I would advise using <u>32bit color </u>, the <u>highest resolution</u> your monitor can dish out <u>enable v-sync</u> and set your <u>Anti Aliasing to 2x</u> (or even 4x if your system can handle it, but the performence hit is usualy not worth it).
30fps is rough when compared to 60 (I just did a little test, and all fo a sudden 30FPs seems "choppy" compared to 60+).
<!--QuoteBegin--l337vegeta+Feb 28 2003, 01:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (l337vegeta @ Feb 28 2003, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hey i got one! <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. Can I seperate my .cfg file in different paragraphs, or does the use of the Enter Key screw the whole thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes u can use paragraphs! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but I think the config.cfg file rebuilds itself every time it is used, so the formatting will go away whenever you load up NS.
Actually military pilots with (obviously) trained eyes who are shown a picture of a plane for 1/200 of a second can not only identify that it was a plane, but also identify what type of plane, etc.
24-30 fps is only acceptable in film because <b>of the way cameras work in the real world.</b> Natural motion blur, guys.
As for the extremely crisp, hard-edged pictures rendered by a game and displayed on a computer monitor, you generally need at least twice that to get an illusion of smoothness. After that, you're right, it generally depends on the person. Personally, in the Q3 engine, I can tell a noticeable difference between 90 and 125 fps. For some reason, in UT2k3 (probably because of how much more "crap" there is being rendered to the screen), 40-50 fps doesn't <i>feel</i> too low, even though once I played on a nice machine (2.5G, ti4600) at a solid 125+ frames, I could <b>really</b> tell the difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jower+Mar 2 2003, 07:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jower @ Mar 2 2003, 07:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I cant freckin see more than 30 pics a sec anyway now can I?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure?
You won't know untill you yourself have made a side-by-side comparisson. Or untill you have played some time at say, 70 fps. And then go back to 30.
I can notice changes in framerate beyond the 100 mark (Obviously applying to Q3, not HL). If you cannot detect a change between 30 and 60 fps, then you are not getting 60 fps. it doesn't matter what you have 'trained', the difference is beyond obvious. There is no one with healthy eyes who can honestly say that they cannot see this change.
The reason for capping your framerate is because abrupt changes in framerate are even more disturbing than a low framerate. Jumping from 100 to 50 at regular intervals is incredibly annoying. People may choose to cap their framerate at a value they can consistantly achieve, to ensure there are no large jumps in framerate. You can also reduce your framerate to make the JP a little less sensitive, i find at 100 fps the pack is a little awkward to use due to the massive boost you get from it with the slightest tap of the jump button. 75 fps gives a more managable boost without compromising your ability to float.
<!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Mar 3 2003, 11:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Mar 3 2003, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can also reduce your framerate to make the JP a little less sensitive, i find at 100 fps the pack is a little awkward to use due to the massive boost you get from it with the slightest tap of the jump button. 75 fps gives a more managable boost without compromising your ability to float. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a sad state of affairs. Airtime being dependant on framerate. Isn't strafe-jump speed also dependant on framerate? High framerate by itself is already a big advantage, i think we don't really need more technical issues to uneven the playing field.
Probably not much can be done about that without using another game engine. though e.g. Q3 has a simmilar issue with jump hight.
I tested a JP with 10FPS (which is playable if its constant at 10, just a bit blurry) but you can't even get off the ground! Holding down space is just a slightly higher jump.
The FPS related things HAVE to be changed, as its just stupid when 100FPS and jetpacks never touch the floor, 10 fps can they turn into long-jump modules.
Comments
oh and
<a href='http://half-life.gamehelp.com/' target='_blank'>I AM HL</a>
what am i doing wrong <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i know i typed it correctly in the console and nothing happens, could this be a cos of the server i tried it in <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
You cant see things over 30 anyway...
gl_dither "0"
and as a command line parameter you have to put:
-32bpp
you should probably do these 2 things for HL itself and each mod. you have to put that -32bpp thing in each shortcut and in the advanced settings of Gamespy as well i think.
You cant see things over 30 anyway... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. the average person can't. Those who have trained their eyes can distinguish a difference between 30 and 70fps. It's just that 30fps is the 'norm' for accepted smooth movement.. 24fps (movie grade) is still possible.
One reason to cap your FPS rate: unless you're using a modified driver, Windows caps OpenGL vsync rates to 60hz /anyway/. So you'll get nasty tearing if you keep going higher, without modding your monitor driver.
Another is that all that extra CPU time could be put to better use on other things; background processes still need processor time, and if you timeslice that thin, you'll get UNSTEADY framerates, which are what look terrible. Cap down to 30-60 if you can get higher, and you'll get less initial frame-drop when you come into a complex (read: highly built by Marines) area.
Really, the only reason to have your FPS rate above 60 is to use the fps-related exploits. Which will be removed in v1.1 ANYWAY, so it's better to just get used to playing the game as it's meant to be played. Cap down. You'll see a marked improvement in performance overall.
You cant see things over 30 anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to say this, but either you have an occular problem or you are just NOT looking. Open your eyes. The average human eye can detect the difference in framerates up to <b><u>72</u></b> FPS. Above that, it depends on the person. In general, you won't see the difference between 65 and 80, but YOU WILL see the diference between 55 and 75.
One thing to remember, 24fps is THE MINIMAL acceptable framerate (and even then... ewww), 30fps is smooth, and <b><u>60</u></b> FPS and above is <i>silky smooth</i>.
If you cannot see the difference between 30 and 60 fps, you are vision-impaired <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> .
You will really see the difference between 30 and 60 fps when you turn around quickly.
I recommander putting your fps_max to 72 (the highest fps the average human eye can detect) or to 60 (for silky smooth @$$ kicking).
If your computer can handle 60fps constent (type cl_showfps 1 in the console), I would advise using <u>32bit color </u>, the <u>highest resolution</u> your monitor can dish out <u>enable v-sync</u> and set your <u>Anti Aliasing to 2x</u> (or even 4x if your system can handle it, but the performence hit is usualy not worth it).
30fps is rough when compared to 60 (I just did a little test, and all fo a sudden 30FPs seems "choppy" compared to 60+).
the human sorta max is 60hz (or 60fps)
this is ACTUALY the time when you have a 50/50 chance of not being able to tell the diff
sooo, capping your fps and 30 is silly
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->P.S. Can I seperate my .cfg file in different paragraphs, or does the use of the Enter Key screw the whole thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes u can use paragraphs! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but I think the config.cfg file rebuilds itself every time it is used, so the formatting will go away whenever you load up NS.
24-30 fps is only acceptable in film because <b>of the way cameras work in the real world.</b> Natural motion blur, guys.
As for the extremely crisp, hard-edged pictures rendered by a game and displayed on a computer monitor, you generally need at least twice that to get an illusion of smoothness. After that, you're right, it generally depends on the person. Personally, in the Q3 engine, I can tell a noticeable difference between 90 and 125 fps. For some reason, in UT2k3 (probably because of how much more "crap" there is being rendered to the screen), 40-50 fps doesn't <i>feel</i> too low, even though once I played on a nice machine (2.5G, ti4600) at a solid 125+ frames, I could <b>really</b> tell the difference.
See www.100fps.com
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure?
You won't know untill you yourself have made a side-by-side comparisson.
Or untill you have played some time at say, 70 fps. And then go back to 30.
The reason for capping your framerate is because abrupt changes in framerate are even more disturbing than a low framerate. Jumping from 100 to 50 at regular intervals is incredibly annoying. People may choose to cap their framerate at a value they can consistantly achieve, to ensure there are no large jumps in framerate. You can also reduce your framerate to make the JP a little less sensitive, i find at 100 fps the pack is a little awkward to use due to the massive boost you get from it with the slightest tap of the jump button. 75 fps gives a more managable boost without compromising your ability to float.
This is a sad state of affairs.
Airtime being dependant on framerate. Isn't strafe-jump speed also dependant on framerate?
High framerate by itself is already a big advantage, i think we don't really need more technical issues to uneven the playing field.
Probably not much can be done about that without using another game engine.
though e.g. Q3 has a simmilar issue with jump hight.
The FPS related things HAVE to be changed, as its just stupid when 100FPS and jetpacks never touch the floor, 10 fps can they turn into long-jump modules.