How To Be A Good Marine
Rico1
NS Oldtimer Join Date: 2002-05-24 Member: 664Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ever wanted to be REALLY good?</div> Ever wonder how those guys who just drop every alien they see manage to kill almost every alien on the map without even dying?
No, its not just skill and good aim, there is a certain technique to follow, which is exactly what i am about to post, so if you feel like you could improve your skill as a marine in general, listen up!
Ok, the first thing you have to learn how to do is to play WITHOUT ANY SORT OF SCRIPTS OR CUSTOM MODELS. This will impair your skill when you are playing without them(and you will have to play without them if you are a serious clanner and are involved in any decent leagues). Now, lets get on with the good stuff shall we?
<b><u>Know your gun</b></u>
Possibly one of the most basic decisions you will have to make as a marine or a commander is choosing what gun to pick up/request/hand out as a marine or a commander, each gun has its own strengths and weaknesses and knowing how to get over the weaknesses is what will make you a deadly player.
<b>The pistol</b>: The pistol is one of the deadliest weapons you will find in NS, and it is the most accurate weapon in the whole game, dealing insane amounts of damage per shot. The pistol's strength lies in its damage, unlimited rate of fire and on it's dead-on accuracy. The only weakness to this gun is it's relatively small clip.
Good use: Killing enemies from far away, when guarding al ong hallway, always use your pistol first until the enemy closes up to about the distance where your LMG will have full impact on the enemy, if the enemy is a skulk, wait until the skulk closes in and fire when you are sure your weapon will hit with every shot, no matter if you fire burst or full auto. The pistol is also a great Fade finisher, unload 1 or 2 full LMG clips into a fade when its at close distance, then when he starts running away, quickly switch to pistol and finish him off.
<b>The LMG</b>:
The most versatile weapon in a game of NS, it can be also considered the best weapon in NS if used correctly. Its high ROF and incredible amount of damage with level 3 weapon upgrades makes this highly underestimated weapon a deadly addition to the TSA arsenal. Its strength lies in its big clip and versatile use, tactical use of this weapon can make any marine a killing machine no matter what alien class you are fighting. It's weakness lies in the huge muzzleflash it emits when it fires, but it can be overcome by firing in short controlled bursts, this technique will also help you not to waste any unneeded ammo.
Good use: Circle strafe around skulks ad other melee enemies while shooting at them, learning how to predict an enemy's movements will make anyone who wields this weapon a killing machine. Circle strafing as Fades try to melee you will also increase your chances of taking out a Fade on your own, smart fades will try to acid rocket you from a distance, in which case you must use your pistol and close in to finish them off. Firing in short controlled bursts is a must for effective use of this weapon.
<b>The HMG</b>
The HMG is quite likely the most devastating weapon in the marine arsenal, its relative ease of use and incredible damage and ROF make it quite possibly the best weapon to use in close quarter battles and against all enemies. Its strength lies in its power and rate of fire, its main weakness is the fact that it slows the marine down a lot when carried, its high resource cost, and its very long reload time.
Good use: Jetpacks and HMGs complement each other, the jetpack will make up for the HMG's clumsyness and long reload times. its possibly the best weapon to use for taking out a hive besides the grenade launcher and it is best used as a suppressive fire weapon. Masses of aliens will stay away from HMG fire if they know whats good for them...
<b>The Shotgun</b>
The shotgun is a clumsy weapon and it is best used for CQB, its strength relies in power, guerrilla warfare and sneak attacks. Its weakness is its low ROF and long reload times, this weapon also slows down a marine consideraby more than an LMG making LMG tactics useless with this weapon.
Good uses: Sneak attacks on aliens, waiting right around a corner and shooting the unsuspecting alien will cause maximum damage, therefore allowing the marine a good chance of killing any alien class besides an onos. it is also a very good anti-umbra weapon, because it fires 12 shells, there is a high chance that at least a couple of the shells will go through the umbra. Rushing hives with a group of shotguns early is also a good tactic, but it can be countered easily by a good alien team.
<b>The Grenade Launcher</b>
Possibly one of the most under-used weapons in the game, its High Rp cost and long reload rates coupled with small clip size make it a difficult weapon to master. Its strength lies in its power and radius damage, the ability to bounce grenades off walls, and its ability to destroy webs with a blast and buildings from a safe distance. Its weakness lies in the small clip size, the need for support due to the impossibility of defending oneself from alien attacks and the long reload rate and small ammo capacity.
Good uses: Killing alien structures, destroying heavily webbed areas of a map(one grenade can clear a LOT of webs with just one shot, plus deal damage to everything around it) and attacking heavily fortified positions. No hive is indestructible if you have a GL on hand. Kill approaching enemies with your pistol, grenades are not good for self defence.
Im leaving out the knife and the welder because they are mainly last resort or supportive weapons, my advice for them is to use them against buildings instead of wasting ammo when there are no enemies nearby. Also, NEVER try to knife a hive if you have ammo left, it is stupid and pointless to try to kill a hive that way unless you are sure you can do it.
My general strategy for marines is to:
A) Always attack in groups unless youre planning on harassing the enemy to slow them down, sneaking in to build a siege turret or phasegate or just ordered by a commander to go alone.
B) When building, always have 1 person build and the other defend. If the defender sees anything or hears anything coming he must quickly warn the builder of the threat so he can stop building and get ready for the attack.
C) Always volunteer to stay and defend key positions in the map, defending marine spawn and key resource points will allow your commander to focus on more important issues.
D) NEVER grab a weapon if you dont know how to use it VERY well, if you know you're going to die as soon as you walk out, chances are, you shouldn't even pick up the weapon.
E) Score doesn't matter, a good marine will rush a hive and shoot it a million times if it will help the marine team win.
F) Help your commander by giving him feedback and informing him about situations on the field. The marine has a better feel for what's going on than the commander.
G) Suggest ideas and strategies to your commander, sometimes a helpful suggestion will win a game.
H) Always assign a separate squad leader when attacking in groups, try to select the best shot in the group, someone who has a tactical mind and specially someone who knows the map well.
I) Don't sit around and beg for weapons
No, its not just skill and good aim, there is a certain technique to follow, which is exactly what i am about to post, so if you feel like you could improve your skill as a marine in general, listen up!
Ok, the first thing you have to learn how to do is to play WITHOUT ANY SORT OF SCRIPTS OR CUSTOM MODELS. This will impair your skill when you are playing without them(and you will have to play without them if you are a serious clanner and are involved in any decent leagues). Now, lets get on with the good stuff shall we?
<b><u>Know your gun</b></u>
Possibly one of the most basic decisions you will have to make as a marine or a commander is choosing what gun to pick up/request/hand out as a marine or a commander, each gun has its own strengths and weaknesses and knowing how to get over the weaknesses is what will make you a deadly player.
<b>The pistol</b>: The pistol is one of the deadliest weapons you will find in NS, and it is the most accurate weapon in the whole game, dealing insane amounts of damage per shot. The pistol's strength lies in its damage, unlimited rate of fire and on it's dead-on accuracy. The only weakness to this gun is it's relatively small clip.
Good use: Killing enemies from far away, when guarding al ong hallway, always use your pistol first until the enemy closes up to about the distance where your LMG will have full impact on the enemy, if the enemy is a skulk, wait until the skulk closes in and fire when you are sure your weapon will hit with every shot, no matter if you fire burst or full auto. The pistol is also a great Fade finisher, unload 1 or 2 full LMG clips into a fade when its at close distance, then when he starts running away, quickly switch to pistol and finish him off.
<b>The LMG</b>:
The most versatile weapon in a game of NS, it can be also considered the best weapon in NS if used correctly. Its high ROF and incredible amount of damage with level 3 weapon upgrades makes this highly underestimated weapon a deadly addition to the TSA arsenal. Its strength lies in its big clip and versatile use, tactical use of this weapon can make any marine a killing machine no matter what alien class you are fighting. It's weakness lies in the huge muzzleflash it emits when it fires, but it can be overcome by firing in short controlled bursts, this technique will also help you not to waste any unneeded ammo.
Good use: Circle strafe around skulks ad other melee enemies while shooting at them, learning how to predict an enemy's movements will make anyone who wields this weapon a killing machine. Circle strafing as Fades try to melee you will also increase your chances of taking out a Fade on your own, smart fades will try to acid rocket you from a distance, in which case you must use your pistol and close in to finish them off. Firing in short controlled bursts is a must for effective use of this weapon.
<b>The HMG</b>
The HMG is quite likely the most devastating weapon in the marine arsenal, its relative ease of use and incredible damage and ROF make it quite possibly the best weapon to use in close quarter battles and against all enemies. Its strength lies in its power and rate of fire, its main weakness is the fact that it slows the marine down a lot when carried, its high resource cost, and its very long reload time.
Good use: Jetpacks and HMGs complement each other, the jetpack will make up for the HMG's clumsyness and long reload times. its possibly the best weapon to use for taking out a hive besides the grenade launcher and it is best used as a suppressive fire weapon. Masses of aliens will stay away from HMG fire if they know whats good for them...
<b>The Shotgun</b>
The shotgun is a clumsy weapon and it is best used for CQB, its strength relies in power, guerrilla warfare and sneak attacks. Its weakness is its low ROF and long reload times, this weapon also slows down a marine consideraby more than an LMG making LMG tactics useless with this weapon.
Good uses: Sneak attacks on aliens, waiting right around a corner and shooting the unsuspecting alien will cause maximum damage, therefore allowing the marine a good chance of killing any alien class besides an onos. it is also a very good anti-umbra weapon, because it fires 12 shells, there is a high chance that at least a couple of the shells will go through the umbra. Rushing hives with a group of shotguns early is also a good tactic, but it can be countered easily by a good alien team.
<b>The Grenade Launcher</b>
Possibly one of the most under-used weapons in the game, its High Rp cost and long reload rates coupled with small clip size make it a difficult weapon to master. Its strength lies in its power and radius damage, the ability to bounce grenades off walls, and its ability to destroy webs with a blast and buildings from a safe distance. Its weakness lies in the small clip size, the need for support due to the impossibility of defending oneself from alien attacks and the long reload rate and small ammo capacity.
Good uses: Killing alien structures, destroying heavily webbed areas of a map(one grenade can clear a LOT of webs with just one shot, plus deal damage to everything around it) and attacking heavily fortified positions. No hive is indestructible if you have a GL on hand. Kill approaching enemies with your pistol, grenades are not good for self defence.
Im leaving out the knife and the welder because they are mainly last resort or supportive weapons, my advice for them is to use them against buildings instead of wasting ammo when there are no enemies nearby. Also, NEVER try to knife a hive if you have ammo left, it is stupid and pointless to try to kill a hive that way unless you are sure you can do it.
My general strategy for marines is to:
A) Always attack in groups unless youre planning on harassing the enemy to slow them down, sneaking in to build a siege turret or phasegate or just ordered by a commander to go alone.
B) When building, always have 1 person build and the other defend. If the defender sees anything or hears anything coming he must quickly warn the builder of the threat so he can stop building and get ready for the attack.
C) Always volunteer to stay and defend key positions in the map, defending marine spawn and key resource points will allow your commander to focus on more important issues.
D) NEVER grab a weapon if you dont know how to use it VERY well, if you know you're going to die as soon as you walk out, chances are, you shouldn't even pick up the weapon.
E) Score doesn't matter, a good marine will rush a hive and shoot it a million times if it will help the marine team win.
F) Help your commander by giving him feedback and informing him about situations on the field. The marine has a better feel for what's going on than the commander.
G) Suggest ideas and strategies to your commander, sometimes a helpful suggestion will win a game.
H) Always assign a separate squad leader when attacking in groups, try to select the best shot in the group, someone who has a tactical mind and specially someone who knows the map well.
I) Don't sit around and beg for weapons
Comments
Without good aim you cannot kill @#%#$. Higher fps etc.. helps immensly! The fact remains a marine can hold position with 30% know how and 70% skill! You use the lmg most of the game so it really doesnt matter..... The only other thing you must learn how to do at the moment is how to jetpack becuz its one of the only other viable strats in 1.04. "bursting" WILL not work, any good alien team will hide behind corners and pop out at the parasited AND YES you will be parasited marine cutting off as much distance as possible before he shows himself.
Spamming while aiming is the only viable lmg tatic since their is no recoil or disadvantage other then the muzzle flash to "bursting". Now if you cant aim at the skulk it wont die... making you a bad marine becuz you will die, end of story. The only other fact that remains is basic expierence such as *using pistol if 500000 billion feet away* *dont rush 10 skulks without backup* *look around corners* *use sound* Once you've played this game and know all the "tricks" the only factor remaining is how well you can aim while looking through your muzzle flash.
Shotgun is THE weapon. There is no other weapon. The speed limitation is effectively eliminated when used with a jetpack (shotties should always be used with jetpacks), letting you not only circle strafe but uber-soar-through-the-air-strafe. I've killed plenty of fades with this before.
The shotgun's greatest advantage - price. A JP/Shotgun marine costs only 25 resources.
Also, sorry i forgot to put mines, as i said, i had to wrap it up real quick near the end. As for burst fire being ineffective, please tell that to all the aliens i kill without dying a single time, also take notice that i dont play against total newbies, i play against clans like sYn, former TE members, #uevo, EC, EGC(clanmates) and a lot of other good clans out there. We have played numerous scrims and matches, and this information has made me a very good marine in general. Its up to you whether to follow my advice or come up with your own strategies, but so far i have yet to see someone highlight the important parts of fighting in general.
This guide is mainly for marines as marines, not as a commander. I might add in squad make ups as to say 2 HMGs 1 GL and a shotty on my next guide, which will probably focus more on squad tactics.
As for the shotgun, i really lost my taste for the shotgun as soon as i realized i had way more mobility with an LMG, it requires a different set of tactics which i havent really been able to try a lot since shotguns are rarely ever handed out by commanders in a real game, but that in no way means shotguns are bad, on the contrary, i said they were good, for certain things... Also, remember that the shotguns is a close quarters weapon, the spread from the shotgun pretty much makes you have to get close to the target to damage it, so if you are jetpacking you pretty much have a large spread with the shotty, making the shotty worse than an LMG if firing from a distance. I forgot to say that next to the GL, the shotty is one of the most effective weapons for taking out structures, just get near a building and fire away.
As for your qualifications on who you play with, <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->play against clans like sYn, former TE members, #uevo, EC, EGC(clanmates) and a lot of other good clans out there. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no doubt you have played many good players and still do... the fact they are good dictates they play often giving them chance to play with everyone. My point isnt with your qualification or how good you are, i'm just stating a fact that fps aiming skills/reflex's account for alot of how the game will turn out. Strategy can hold up a game only so much before it becomes a battle of holding a res node or pressuring a hive.. or the ability to take 4 skulks out with lmg/jetpack. If you are able to hold off a position from 3 skulks with full cara... then you are able to lmg rush their hive before they can implement any other strat other then upgrade.
Again, if your in a group, the marine at the back should keep checking behind. Don't walk backwards because you'll fall behind, just swivel round and have a quick scan every 5 - 10 seconds or so.
If you hear gunfire and leaving your present position isn't a problem, move. Not only will the marine(s) under attack thank you, from a team point of view you will save the res invested in any equipment they're carrying.
Re: burst firing, I find the term slightly misleading. Basically, whan your tracking a skulk on target theres no point in bursting.
However, as <b>soon</b> as you lose sight for any reason, stop. Re-acquire and start firing again. Too many marines try and get back on target whilst still firing, and by the time they <b>are</b> back on target, their clip runs dry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm just refering to the use of bursting tatics gives no other edge then time to aim through you muzzle blast. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, technically, if your aiming through the muzzle flash your missing anyway as the flash is down and right from the crosshairs.
1) listen to your COMM
2) be able to aim
ummm...thats it. thats all i expect from people when i comm.
Being able to aim isn't that important alot of the time. Aiming when its important is the best skill. Often in base I waste a load of Skulks, but then when I need to make this PG and kill 1 skulk to finish it I die and its a waste of res. Perhaps there's some people that aim best when it matters?
Actually, if your talking about where the muzzle flash derives you wouldnt be able to shoot through that since its a blind spot.. but the flare from your muzzle flash comes over your crossheir which is what you must shoot through. So when I say you must shoot through you muzzle flash I dont not refer to where it is deriving from but where it blocks your vision that counts for the most 'Cow points'.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Burst fire is very effective no matter what situation may arise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pls explain why burst fire is VERY effective no matter what situation... I fail to comprehend how a no recoil gun needs any sort of bursting fire... If your able to aim on the skulk why not just keep shooting bullets into the skulk. Unless your refering to phoenix's definition <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, as soon as you lose sight for any reason, stop.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then obviously you should stop shooting, I didnt even think you needed a word to tell someone to stop shooting if they leave your los.
No, its not just skill and good aim, there is a certain technique to follow, which is exactly what i am about to post, so if you feel like you could improve your skill as a marine in general, listen up!
Ok, the first thing you have to learn how to do is to play WITHOUT ANY SORT OF SCRIPTS OR CUSTOM MODELS. This will impair your skill when you are playing without them(and you will have to play without them if you are a serious clanner and are involved in any decent leagues). Now, lets get on with the good stuff shall we?
<b><u>Know your gun</b></u>
Possibly one of the most basic decisions you will have to make as a marine or a commander is choosing what gun to pick up/request/hand out as a marine or a commander, each gun has its own strengths and weaknesses and knowing how to get over the weaknesses is what will make you a deadly player.
<b>The pistol</b>: The pistol is one of the deadliest weapons you will find in NS, and it is the most accurate weapon in the whole game, dealing insane amounts of damage per shot. The pistol's strength lies in its damage, unlimited rate of fire and on it's dead-on accuracy. The only weakness to this gun is it's relatively small clip.
Good use: Killing enemies from far away, when guarding al ong hallway, always use your pistol first until the enemy closes up to about the distance where your LMG will have full impact on the enemy, if the enemy is a skulk, wait until the skulk closes in and fire when you are sure your weapon will hit with every shot, no matter if you fire burst or full auto. The pistol is also a great Fade finisher, unload 1 or 2 full LMG clips into a fade when its at close distance, then when he starts running away, quickly switch to pistol and finish him off.
<b>The LMG</b>:
The most versatile weapon in a game of NS, it can be also considered the best weapon in NS if used correctly. Its high ROF and incredible amount of damage with level 3 weapon upgrades makes this highly underestimated weapon a deadly addition to the TSA arsenal. Its strength lies in its big clip and versatile use, tactical use of this weapon can make any marine a killing machine no matter what alien class you are fighting. It's weakness lies in the huge muzzleflash it emits when it fires, but it can be overcome by firing in short controlled bursts, this technique will also help you not to waste any unneeded ammo.
Good use: Circle strafe around skulks ad other melee enemies while shooting at them, learning how to predict an enemy's movements will make anyone who wields this weapon a killing machine. Circle strafing as Fades try to melee you will also increase your chances of taking out a Fade on your own, smart fades will try to acid rocket you from a distance, in which case you must use your pistol and close in to finish them off. Firing in short controlled bursts is a must for effective use of this weapon.
<b>The HMG</b>
The HMG is quite likely the most devastating weapon in the marine arsenal, its relative ease of use and incredible damage and ROF make it quite possibly the best weapon to use in close quarter battles and against all enemies. Its strength lies in its power and rate of fire, its main weakness is the fact that it slows the marine down a lot when carried, its high resource cost, and its very long reload time.
Good use: Jetpacks and HMGs complement each other, the jetpack will make up for the HMG's clumsyness and long reload times. its possibly the best weapon to use for taking out a hive besides the grenade launcher and it is best used as a suppressive fire weapon. Masses of aliens will stay away from HMG fire if they know whats good for them...
<b>The Shotgun</b>
The shotgun is a clumsy weapon and it is best used for CQB, its strength relies in power, guerrilla warfare and sneak attacks. Its weakness is its low ROF and long reload times, this weapon also slows down a marine consideraby more than an LMG making LMG tactics useless with this weapon.
Good uses: Sneak attacks on aliens, waiting right around a corner and shooting the unsuspecting alien will cause maximum damage, therefore allowing the marine a good chance of killing any alien class besides an onos. it is also a very good anti-umbra weapon, because it fires 12 shells, there is a high chance that at least a couple of the shells will go through the umbra. Rushing hives with a group of shotguns early is also a good tactic, but it can be countered easily by a good alien team.
<b>The Grenade Launcher</b>
Possibly one of the most under-used weapons in the game, its High Rp cost and long reload rates coupled with small clip size make it a difficult weapon to master. Its strength lies in its power and radius damage, the ability to bounce grenades off walls, and its ability to destroy webs with a blast and buildings from a safe distance. Its weakness lies in the small clip size, the need for support due to the impossibility of defending oneself from alien attacks and the long reload rate and small ammo capacity.
Good uses: Killing alien structures, destroying heavily webbed areas of a map(one grenade can clear a LOT of webs with just one shot, plus deal damage to everything around it) and attacking heavily fortified positions. No hive is indestructible if you have a GL on hand. Kill approaching enemies with your pistol, grenades are not good for self defence.
Im leaving out the knife and the welder because they are mainly last resort or supportive weapons, my advice for them is to use them against buildings instead of wasting ammo when there are no enemies nearby. Also, NEVER try to knife a hive if you have ammo left, it is stupid and pointless to try to kill a hive that way unless you are sure you can do it.
My general strategy for marines is to:
A) Always attack in groups unless youre planning on harassing the enemy to slow them down, sneaking in to build a siege turret or phasegate or just ordered by a commander to go alone.
B) When building, always have 1 person build and the other defend. If the defender sees anything or hears anything coming he must quickly warn the builder of the threat so he can stop building and get ready for the attack.
C) Always volunteer to stay and defend key positions in the map, defending marine spawn and key resource points will allow your commander to focus on more important issues.
D) NEVER grab a weapon if you dont know how to use it VERY well, if you know you're going to die as soon as you walk out, chances are, you shouldn't even pick up the weapon.
E) Score doesn't matter, a good marine will rush a hive and shoot it a million times if it will help the marine team win.
F) Help your commander by giving him feedback and informing him about situations on the field. The marine has a better feel for what's going on than the commander.
G) Suggest ideas and strategies to your commander, sometimes a helpful suggestion will win a game.
H) Always assign a separate squad leader when attacking in groups, try to select the best shot in the group, someone who has a tactical mind and specially someone who knows the map well.
I) Don't sit around and beg for weapons <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to comment on some of your points
A)Never always do anything, the only "Always" is to make sure you kill the other team, its ok to stray from the group if you think something is suspicious, just make sure you go back and group up
B)I agree with
C)Once again never always, only volunteer if he asks for somebody, otherwise you are just gonna sit and be unproductive, but if the commander does order you to guard something, stay put.
D)The problem with this is, if you never grab any new weapons, how do you learn how to use it? Certainly by not watching other people use it.
E)But on the flip side, kills DO matter, just not kill count. If you cant kill you cant expand, if you cant expand you cant win
F)Agree
G)Agree again
H)Tactical leader is not really neccesary, but can be nice if he does not clutter voice comm up too much
I)WINNA!
And I would like to suggest another letter
J)USE SOUND TO ITS MAXIMUM POTENTIAL, get headphones and an EAX card, your game will improve sooo much it will be surprising.
I too love the shotgun, and when your base is being attacked by Umbra+Fade, there's no weapon I'd rather have. Unfortunately, I have yet to meet a commander who will give me one, as far too many comms think it worthless.
But as I'm usually the one guarding the base, let me say this to the comms out there: A warrior who has no respect for his weapon is not the warrior you want guarding you. ^_^ -_-