ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I tried a varied turret tactic the other day, and bizzarely it works.
DO build a few turrets in spawn. Not many, just enough to stop the skulks.
THEN.
Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Feb 28 2003, 10:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 28 2003, 10:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
Try it, it might just work for you too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> eh? buit you need a CC in range to build the IP... tbh I give the marines JP's instead of phase gates until an area is secure - it's almost as quick and far more flexible about where they go.
back to the thread. Yes. tech and teamwork wins, not turrets.
ns_nothing, if Cargo is NOT their hive then get to it, get PGs up, cap the res points around there, then gradually turret up those res points and the PG. It's SO easy and I can only remember one time my team has lost doing this, and we were outnumbered 8 to 5. The allows you to protect many res at once (all from one TF), allowing the marines to push forward to the other res points near cargo (generator room and the one outside it for example). You then sit on the res and tech up.
You'll have JP/HA/HMG/Grens and be developing level 3 armour and weapons even before the aliens get fades, by which time the fades just can't cope with the onslaught as you blitz powersilo and viaduct.
So don't say turrets are useless.
They ARE useless if you don't cover your TF properly or build it where it can easily be lerked, and against hive2+ aliens they tend to be pretty tricky to hold, but it seems as though many of you haven't learned yet how to place them properly TBH.
Don't get me wrong, I don't use many AT ALL, but that's mainly because my marines follow my orders (or get booted <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) Those I do use, I make damn sure they're well placed and effective at holding hives together with a couple of marines defending.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cregore+Feb 25 2003, 01:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cregore @ Feb 25 2003, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Turrets are a total waste of RPs 90% of the time, you can do more with those RPs to make your troops better... For example:
1 Adv. TF 3 <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> 2 <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> is 139 RPs which could get you 2 HA w/HMG and welders and a JP'er with a welder.
Seeing as most people place 5-10 <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> in one place that's 90-180 RPs that are wasted and could be put to better use upgrading the weapons/armour of the marines.
The only major problem with not having turrets is that you need teamwork and most marines are gibbering idiots who don't play with sound and/or are deaf. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually you are completely WRONG!!! TURRETS ARE USELESSS 100% of time. I have completely given up on turrets and moved on to multiple armories around maps to help seal off every single entrance with mines. TURRETS TAKE TIME TO BUILD!!!!! While you are building those turrets that takes out a total of one marine from the battle field. If you use mines It takes about 3 seconds to wall up an entrance.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Feb 28 2003, 05:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 28 2003, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I tried a varied turret tactic the other day, and bizzarely it works.
DO build a few turrets in spawn. Not many, just enough to stop the skulks.
THEN.
Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
Try it, it might just work for you too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow dude you should really stop posting on frontiersman strategy because you are simply saying the WRONG things. This is why you get ALOT of ramboes. A veteran player sees you build a tf in base. AUTOMATICALY thinks your a newb and he figures "This idiot doesnt know what hes doing AHHH well might as well kill as many of em before i F4" He then proceeds to a hive spawn kills until there is about 1 aliens spawning at a time. ALL this time he asks for ammo so he can continue. But your **** is going NO U STUPID RAMBO!!!! He then proceeeds to type retry on console. Comes back as alien skulk and proceeds to rape your unupgraded marines. And you proceed to call him a **** for switching teams.
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Feb 28 2003, 02:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Feb 28 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree 100%. Always tech, tech, tech! Terrans in starcraft don't win by sitting on their **** all day in bunkers! They attack and tech up! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, in Starcraft, attacking and teching are usually mutually exclusive, because attacking always costs resources. Many Terran strats, such as the infamous "Heavy Metal", involve walling up the base with an ironclad defense and teching to tanks before making a single attack. I myself have won pubbie games by walling up and teching to NUKES before leaving.
In NS, it's a little different, because marines are free - in SC they're 50 minerals each.
Minor point. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--[p4]Samwise+Feb 28 2003, 07:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([p4]Samwise @ Feb 28 2003, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Feb 28 2003, 02:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Feb 28 2003, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree 100%. Always tech, tech, tech! Terrans in starcraft don't win by sitting on their **** all day in bunkers! They attack and tech up! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, in Starcraft, attacking and teching are usually mutually exclusive, because attacking always costs resources. Many Terran strats, such as the infamous "Heavy Metal", involve walling up the base with an ironclad defense and teching to tanks before making a single attack. I myself have won pubbie games by walling up and teching to NUKES before leaving.
In NS, it's a little different, because marines are free - in SC they're 50 minerals each.
Minor point. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ns really isnt that much different from sc. The plain truth is if you mass cannons or bunkers or sunken in sc chances are you opposition is using that res on expansions and upgrades. SAME EXACT THING ON NS!!!!! If you build tf in base aliens aer using res on building res node then 3 d chambers as upgrdes. In 1v1 ladder in sc as marines i basically build 7 scvs then barrax send a scv near enemy base then build bunker as soon as barax is done and rally a marine to bunker while this is happening i tech to tanks in base. If you let zerg loose on maps there is nothing you can do against their mass expansions. If its terran vs zerg this is usually the quickest way to end zergs. PRESSURE ALIENS!!! The problem is once aliens have lvl 3 carapice your marines are at a huge disadvantage. This is why marine ALWAYS HAVE TO GET UPGRADED GUNS so they can match up to aliens carapice.
I'm tired of hearing, "turrets are a waste of RES." Turrets are a waste if used purely defensively. I find the best usage for turrets is a few corridors ahead of the defended area, via at choke points. As for the immediate response, did I say FARM??? No, the idea is to use a few turrets in the ever popular triange defense and lay a few mines around each of the turrets. It is not too costly but it reaps serious dividends by weakening the opponent and making retreats to DTs far more frequent. This buys signicant time early on especially on the right side of eclipse.
when you got no turrets at all, you're sure that skulks will simply walk into your base, when you got turrets, at least you slow the skulks down, and then a few marines can check that place out, you've got to use turrets also to protect outposts, if you place 4 marines at an outpost, they keep the skulks away, but it's a waste of men, if you place 2 marines and two turrets at an outpost, the marines back the turrets up, and the turrets provide a lot of fire power, so NO, turrets are not 100% waste of money.
Whether the skulk is good or not, turrets slow skulks down long enough for someone to get there and handle the situation IF they are placed properly. Marines can't be everywhere so turrets are very useful.
that's exactly my idea to, <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> but it is wise to guard your turrets with a marine.
Turrents cant win all the games for you, but they are neccesary <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hell if its just for the 'you are under attack' alone , i think its worth it. Plus it helps to have the skulks running around crazly dodgeing turrent fire , then right to marines chomping away, cutting off that phase gate eventualy. =P
I agree wiht v4ult1z the fact of the matter is that you do need turrets, it makes it harder for the skulks to get thrtough.
The more bullets flying through the air the more chance you have at killing someting.
Without them it would be like playing Starcraft wihthout building bunkers or photon cannons. No matter what any of you say or how good you all think you are turrets are a basic neccesity, they are fundamental backbone to your defence/offence second only to the marine.
Like what Ashkajioni said Turrents cant win all the games for you, but they are neccesary.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Photon cannons also have a 100% accuracy unless the enemies have a height advantage. Plus, the zerg cant hide behind those crystal things that generate a field where the cannons can operate in.
oh ffs... TURRETS KEEP YOU ALIVE AND IN CONTROL OF HIVE LOCATIONS.
I never seen a marine team win without turrets. Never.
(If you're gonna come in and say something like :"Yeah well i have", well good for you! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Turrets GREATLY needed to defend a location and it permits your troops to leave an area, knowing the aliens won't be there when they return. Besides, you do NOT want to recapture an area over and over because you didn't spend a few RP to protect an area... it ultimately going to cost you more in weapons and other stuff. Oh and ANYTHINg is a waste of res. Turrets just last longer then an HMG in the hands of a marine.
And if you give out welders, the life expectancy of your Turrets and TF just shot up.
You have to consider the long term effect of those turret, it'll defend those res node which in turn will spill out more resources to cover those costs.. Also HA/HMG costs even more than just 60 res (including Wielder).. Because generally speaking if you want to go for this particular strategy you pretty much need quite a bit of upgrades.. Overall, placing 3 turrets around a hive is not a bad idea, it allows only 1-2 marine to defend the hive and the rest can move on to hunt gorgs or secure another one.. But make sure you also have MT researched so you can anticipate skulk rush.
There is also one very important thing, 3-4 weapon upgraded turret in key positions > 10 turret spamming.
I will freaking PAY to see a screenshot of you telling 4 guys in full gear to stand next to an RT and repeatedly say "BLEEP" while the rest of the team occupies themselves elsewhere.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Commander Kittens+Mar 6 2003, 09:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Commander Kittens @ Mar 6 2003, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I will freaking PAY to see a screenshot of you telling 4 guys in full gear to stand next to an RT and repeatedly say "BLEEP" while the rest of the team occupies themselves elsewhere. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL at the quote.
On topic: Use mines. The defend as well, if not better, against the enemy as turrets do at hive one status. They also costs LOTS less. If the enemy gets to hive 2 status, effectiveness of turrets=0. Effective of mines=0, so they're still equal.
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Mar 7 2003, 02:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Mar 7 2003, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On topic: Use mines. The defend as well, if not better, against the enemy as turrets do at hive one status. They also costs LOTS less. If the enemy gets to hive 2 status, effectiveness of turrets=0. Effective of mines=0, so they're still equal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually turret don't blow up your marines when fades acid rocket them. I once scored 5 kills with one acid rocket thanks to late mine placement!
A small farm will deter fades from charging a key location, they'll hand back and acid rocket or run in, slash a bit and run out. This gives you time to deploy a squad to hold the location. By comparison a fade seeing mines around an area will just acid rocket them, damaging your structures with your mines. Mines and turrets are different, they have different strengths. You need to use mines, turrets and teamwork to win and I thin the ratio is 1/1/6 at the moment.
Hmmm, yeah. I cant count the number of times as a Fade where a level 3 turret has exploded after I hit it with an acid rocket, destroying other stuff and marines around it.
...they are both flawed and useless in certain situations, but one IS better mid-game then the other. Comparing turrets and mines vs. acid rockets is sad.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Which is why I don't compare. They're both crappy in my opinion, and if I want to win I won't ever let aliens get 2 hives. Early game is all that matters in 1.04
Comments
DO build a few turrets in spawn. Not many, just enough to stop the skulks.
THEN.
Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
Try it, it might just work for you too.
Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
Try it, it might just work for you too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh? buit you need a CC in range to build the IP...
tbh I give the marines JP's instead of phase gates until an area is secure - it's almost as quick and far more flexible about where they go.
back to the thread. Yes. tech and teamwork wins, not turrets.
The allows you to protect many res at once (all from one TF), allowing the marines to push forward to the other res points near cargo (generator room and the one outside it for example). You then sit on the res and tech up.
You'll have JP/HA/HMG/Grens and be developing level 3 armour and weapons even before the aliens get fades, by which time the fades just can't cope with the onslaught as you blitz powersilo and viaduct.
So don't say turrets are useless.
They ARE useless if you don't cover your TF properly or build it where it can easily be lerked, and against hive2+ aliens they tend to be pretty tricky to hold, but it seems as though many of you haven't learned yet how to place them properly TBH.
Don't get me wrong, I don't use many AT ALL, but that's mainly because my marines follow my orders (or get booted <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) Those I do use, I make damn sure they're well placed and effective at holding hives together with a couple of marines defending.
1 Adv. TF
3 <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
is 139 RPs which could get you 2 HA w/HMG and welders and a JP'er with a welder.
Seeing as most people place 5-10 <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> in one place that's 90-180 RPs that are wasted and could be put to better use upgrading the weapons/armour of the marines.
The only major problem with not having turrets is that you need teamwork and most marines are gibbering idiots who don't play with sound and/or are deaf. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually you are completely WRONG!!!
TURRETS ARE USELESSS 100% of time.
I have completely given up on turrets and moved on to multiple armories around maps to help seal off every single entrance with mines.
TURRETS TAKE TIME TO BUILD!!!!!
While you are building those turrets that takes out a total of one marine from the battle field.
If you use mines It takes about 3 seconds to wall up an entrance.
DO build a few turrets in spawn. Not many, just enough to stop the skulks.
THEN.
Instead of PG's, build IP's where you're fighting. Quicker, kinda. It works, but only because the aliens have to bite IP's more to kill them than PG's.
Try it, it might just work for you too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow dude you should really stop posting on frontiersman strategy because you are simply saying the WRONG things.
This is why you get ALOT of ramboes.
A veteran player sees you build a tf in base.
AUTOMATICALY thinks your a newb and he figures "This idiot doesnt know what hes doing AHHH well might as well kill as many of em before i F4"
He then proceeds to a hive spawn kills until there is about 1 aliens spawning at a time.
ALL this time he asks for ammo so he can continue.
But your **** is going NO U STUPID RAMBO!!!!
He then proceeeds to type retry on console.
Comes back as alien skulk and proceeds to rape your unupgraded marines.
And you proceed to call him a **** for switching teams.
Actually, in Starcraft, attacking and teching are usually mutually exclusive, because attacking always costs resources. Many Terran strats, such as the infamous "Heavy Metal", involve walling up the base with an ironclad defense and teching to tanks before making a single attack. I myself have won pubbie games by walling up and teching to NUKES before leaving.
In NS, it's a little different, because marines are free - in SC they're 50 minerals each.
Minor point. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, in Starcraft, attacking and teching are usually mutually exclusive, because attacking always costs resources. Many Terran strats, such as the infamous "Heavy Metal", involve walling up the base with an ironclad defense and teching to tanks before making a single attack. I myself have won pubbie games by walling up and teching to NUKES before leaving.
In NS, it's a little different, because marines are free - in SC they're 50 minerals each.
Minor point. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ns really isnt that much different from sc.
The plain truth is if you mass cannons or bunkers or sunken in sc chances are you opposition is using that res on expansions and upgrades.
SAME EXACT THING ON NS!!!!!
If you build tf in base aliens aer using res on building res node then 3 d chambers as upgrdes.
In 1v1 ladder in sc as marines i basically build 7 scvs then barrax send a scv near enemy base then build bunker as soon as barax is done and rally a marine to bunker while this is happening i tech to tanks in base.
If you let zerg loose on maps there is nothing you can do against their mass expansions.
If its terran vs zerg this is usually the quickest way to end zergs.
PRESSURE ALIENS!!!
The problem is once aliens have lvl 3 carapice your marines are at a huge disadvantage.
This is why marine ALWAYS HAVE TO GET UPGRADED GUNS so they can match up to aliens carapice.
when you got no turrets at all, you're sure that skulks will simply walk into your base,
when you got turrets, at least you slow the skulks down, and then a few marines can check
that place out, you've got to use turrets also to protect outposts,
if you place 4 marines at an outpost, they keep the skulks away, but it's a waste of men,
if you place 2 marines and two turrets at an outpost, the marines back the turrets up,
and the turrets provide a lot of fire power, so NO, turrets are not 100% waste of money.
but it is wise to guard your turrets with a marine.
Turrents cant win all the games for you, but they are neccesary <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hell if its just for the 'you are under attack' alone , i think its worth it.
Plus it helps to have the skulks running around crazly dodgeing turrent fire , then right to marines chomping away, cutting off that phase gate eventualy. =P
The more bullets flying through the air the more chance you have at killing someting.
Without them it would be like playing Starcraft wihthout building bunkers or photon cannons. No matter what any of you say or how good you all think you are turrets are a basic neccesity, they are fundamental backbone to your defence/offence second only to the marine.
Like what Ashkajioni said Turrents cant win all the games for you, but they are neccesary.
I never seen a marine team win without turrets.
Never.
(If you're gonna come in and say something like :"Yeah well i have", well good for you! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Turrets GREATLY needed to defend a location and it permits your troops to leave an area, knowing the aliens won't be there when they return.
Besides, you do NOT want to recapture an area over and over because you didn't spend a few RP to protect an area... it ultimately going to cost you more in weapons and other stuff.
Oh and ANYTHINg is a waste of res.
Turrets just last longer then an HMG in the hands of a marine.
And if you give out welders, the life expectancy of your Turrets and TF just shot up.
There is also one very important thing, 3-4 weapon upgraded turret in key positions > 10 turret spamming.
LOL at the quote.
On topic: Use mines. The defend as well, if not better, against the enemy as turrets do at hive one status. They also costs LOTS less. If the enemy gets to hive 2 status, effectiveness of turrets=0. Effective of mines=0, so they're still equal.
Actually turret don't blow up your marines when fades acid rocket them. I once scored 5 kills with one acid rocket thanks to late mine placement!
A small farm will deter fades from charging a key location, they'll hand back and acid rocket or run in, slash a bit and run out. This gives you time to deploy a squad to hold the location. By comparison a fade seeing mines around an area will just acid rocket them, damaging your structures with your mines. Mines and turrets are different, they have different strengths. You need to use mines, turrets and teamwork to win and I thin the ratio is 1/1/6 at the moment.
...they are both flawed and useless in certain situations, but one IS better mid-game then the other. Comparing turrets and mines vs. acid rockets is sad.
Sifo