Iraq Vs North Korea

MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
I don't understand why we are putting so much pressure on Iraq right now. Yesterday, my teacher showed me an article of the 5 worst dictators, and the leader of North Korea was #1. According to the article, he had announced to the world that he is breaking a treaty which (used to) prevents him from producing nuclear and biological weapons, and will not allow UN inspectors in his country. Even more, he said that if we should invade Iraq, he may use them on us. Now, comparing to Iraq: Iraq has allowed inspectors into the country, and they haven't found any hard evidence of nuclear or biological weapons. I'm starting to think it is just about oil...But is it justified? Wars are terrible, but imagine the anarchy in the US that would follow if it ran dry of oil? Your opinions please.

Comments

  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    Well as far as Iraq goes I don't care we can easly invade and crush all that oppose us there and keep the oil for ourselves. Why? Because were bigger better and stronger then Iraq as a matter of fact we should just invade the entire middle east the whole place is a ses pool of scum poverty and terror. Hows that for blunt.
    Anyone who disagrees is entitled to there opinions *cough hippy pussys cough* have a nice day
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Members
    That's not an amazing example of the infamous American Ignorance or anything.
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    Because if we invade the Middle East without provocation everyday would be like the West Bank/Gaza Strip. They'd suicide bomb us, we'd bomb them...rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

    And N. Korea is far worse a threat, but Iraq has oil!
  • DubersDubers Pet Shop Boy Edinburgh, UK Join Date: 2002-07-25 Member: 998Members
    North Korea is definately the USA's biggest problem. Watched a tv documentary about a week ago on North Korea and at the end of the program and when the crew were going home they met an american on the plane. He explaind that he had just got out of a prison camp which he was held at for 2 weeks. He was held there because he had cracked a joke about their leader. 2 weeks for telling a joke!! They really REALLY don't like americans.
  • CallMessiahCallMessiah Join Date: 2002-06-24 Member: 813Members
    edited February 2003
    I'm sorry to say this, reasa, but, as a matter of fact, the supremacist **** you're posting is quite comparable to the attitude that let Germany to invade every country around them during WW2 and I'm glad that there are so few people who think like you and in comparison so many people who actually DO think at all before posting. I would write a lot more about what I think about your comments so far in other topics as well, but then I'd have to report myself to an admin and that would lead nowhere, so take this as you will, you can guess what I think of you.
    On Topic:
    I think it is rather ridiculous to compare dictators around the world to find out which one is the worst and should be put to rest by the US. The US has no business in Iraq nor North Korea except for the fact that they think they have to police the globe or something. Even if a alck of oil lead to anarchy in the States I'd rather say "So be it" than agree with an invasion of Iraq just because the US needs that oil, if that was the point of this discussion whatsoever. (Uh...btw... isn't there alot of oil in Alaska anyway? So, I guess anarchy because of a lack of oil in the US is kinda far fetched...)
    Anyway... I think all this dictators and who's the worst stuff is not US business, but rather world policy and should therefor not be decided by the US alone. But if you were only saying that North Korea is right now pushing its limits a lot harder than Iraq, than you're probably right...
  • SovietDictatorSovietDictator Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12461Members
    edited February 2003
    North Korea is a threat, but can easily be dealt with. They are bluffing, any attack would result in their utter destruction. Iraq will be, and should be disarmed; according to previous treaties they have signed. Search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction on goggle, you'll find lots of information on it. As to countries policing the globe, there is nothing wrong with that, hell there should be more of it, since the UN seems to be tripping up; IIRC, Libya, Sudan, and China are on the UN humanitarian rights commision, they also kicked the U.S. out of it.

    btw, war=not for oil, read several hundred unbias pages of information on the Iraqi conflict and any logical human being who can read will come to the same conclusion. Though there MIGHT be some positive economic benefits for certain businesses if a war took place, same if one didn't.
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    To Messiah

    Alaska has a lot of oil, but if Shrub drills in ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Refuge) I'm gonna support war on iraq.
  • OnumaOnuma Join Date: 2003-01-18 Member: 12428Members
    We've got to take care of problems one step at a time.

    We absolutely do not want to be divided in sending forces to Iraq and North Korea simultaneously - that is strategically the worst case scenario. Once we're through with Iraq, then we'll see to it that North Korea gets theirs.

    These countries keep violating treaties, but they merely get slapped on the wrist - what will we do or say when they're threatening us with Nucler/Chemical/Biological attacks if they don't get what they want? We should stick to our guns while we still have em.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These countries keep violating treaties, but they merely get slapped on the wrist - what will we do or say when they're threatening us with Nucler/Chemical/Biological attacks if they don't get what they want?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    *cough* Israel *cough*

    *cough* Pakistan *cough*

    Seems that once nations get nuclear weapons the US loses any interest in doing anything about them. But when they KNOW a nation has nothing (Iraq) they go in gung-ho.
    Don't give us that "They're threatening us" joke. Iraq couldn't threaten you even if they had WMD.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> North Korea is a threat, but can easily be dealt with. They are bluffing, any attack would result in their utter destruction. Iraq will be, and should be disarmed; according to previous treaties they have signed. Search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction on goggle, you'll find lots of information on it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Easily dealt with...ever taken a trip to Korea? The US wants the whole thing calmed down, they don't want war on the Korean penninsula because that would be huge. Forget Iraq this would be HUGE. The US doesn't care Nth korea has nukes as long as they don't get used. The US isn't going to go in there and take them or bomb them because they know what would be unleased.
    Also, you freely admit that "They are bluffing, any attack would result in their utter destruction." Then we have nothing to worry about Iraq either, because any attack by them would result in Iraq's utter destruction. So what are we worried about? Why not let the inspectors finish their jobs?
    Btw, I can do a search on google for Moon Landings Hoax and get hundreds of sites telling me exactly how it was faked. Does that make it any more credible? No. And most of the sites you describe refer to Iraq's WMD programs prior to the Gulf War.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Feb 21 2003, 04:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Feb 21 2003, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These countries keep violating treaties, but they merely get slapped on the wrist - what will we do or say when they're threatening us with Nucler/Chemical/Biological attacks if they don't get what they want?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    *cough* Israel *cough*

    *cough* Pakistan *cough*

    Seems that once nations get nuclear weapons the US loses any interest in doing anything about them. But when they KNOW a nation has nothing (Iraq) they go in gung-ho.
    Don't give us that "They're threatening us" joke. Iraq couldn't threaten you even if they had WMD.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> North Korea is a threat, but can easily be dealt with. They are bluffing, any attack would result in their utter destruction. Iraq will be, and should be disarmed; according to previous treaties they have signed. Search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction on goggle, you'll find lots of information on it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Easily dealt with...ever taken a trip to Korea? The US wants the whole thing calmed down, they don't want war on the Korean penninsula because that would be huge. Forget Iraq this would be HUGE. The US doesn't care Nth korea has nukes as long as they don't get used. The US isn't going to go in there and take them or bomb them because they know what would be unleased.
    Also, you freely admit that "They are bluffing, any attack would result in their utter destruction." Then we have nothing to worry about Iraq either, because any attack by them would result in Iraq's utter destruction. So what are we worried about? Why not let the inspectors finish their jobs?
    Btw, I can do a search on google for Moon Landings Hoax and get hundreds of sites telling me exactly how it was faked. Does that make it any more credible? No. And most of the sites you describe refer to Iraq's WMD programs prior to the Gulf War. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    First off, the U.N. is a joke, it's degrading into the league of nations.


    Second off, how is North Korea a threat to the U.S.? Saddam is an actual threat as he has Weapons of Mass Destruction, wouldn't mind usuing them, and has plenty of means to do it as well; terrorists.


    Saddam is the biggest threat to US saftey at this point in time, and will be dealth with accordingly.

    North Korea doesn't want to see the U.S. dead, they want something else which will reveail itself in due time.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited February 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Feb 21 2003, 08:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Feb 21 2003, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Second off, how is North Korea a threat to the U.S.?  Saddam is an actual threat as he has Weapons of Mass Destruction, wouldn't mind usuing them, and has plenty of means to do it as well; terrorists.


    Saddam is the biggest threat to US saftey at this point in time, and will be dealth with accordingly.

    North Korea doesn't want to see the U.S. dead, they want something else which will reveail itself in due time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't know where to begin, so I guess I'll just browse through the last four weeks of CNNs news archive:

    <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/24/nkorea.nukes/index.html' target='_blank'>North Korea is openly working on nuclear weaponry,</a>, <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/23/korea.north.frontline.reut/index.html' target='_blank'>Kim Yong Il is faithful he'd win a war with the US</a>, <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/23/korea.north.frontline.reut/index.html' target='_blank'>a nice overview</a>, <a href='http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/12/us.nkorea/index.html' target='_blank'>oh, and by the way, they can hit <i>you</i></a>.

    The inspectors in the Iraq have yet to find a "smoking gun" while North Korea is openly building assault rifles.
    Honestly, I think there's one main reason why Korea isn't being invaded right now: Attacking a country which actually possesses weapons of mass destruction is really quite dangerous.
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    Forlorn, Saddam doesn't love the U.S. because we've been starving his people and we don't openly buy oil directly from Iraq, instead going through middle agents like Russia.

    Attacking Iraq is a suicide attempt. and he doesn't have terrorists, he has SCUD missiles and soldiers. Contrary to CNN and other news sources, Al Qaeda and Saddam do not get along. In fact, Saudi Arabia offered Osama bin Laden a lot of money (40 mil) to take out Saddam. And Saddam has openly declared his hatred of O bL. Watch the real news such as BBC and Al-Jazeera instead of accepting CNN as the word.
  • OnumaOnuma Join Date: 2003-01-18 Member: 12428Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seems that once nations get nuclear weapons the US loses any interest in doing anything about them. But when they KNOW a nation has nothing (Iraq) they go in gung-ho.
    Don't give us that "They're threatening us" joke. Iraq couldn't threaten you even if they had WMD.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I think most of you fail to realize that even a simple piece of Artillery is a "Weapon of Mass Destruction". They call artillery the "killer of war", because of its hugely devastating effects on morale, the battlefield itself, and anything that gets struck by it.

    Saying that Iraq has no "WMD's" is total bullcrap - every country has them regardless. A three man mortar crew can wreak more havoc on a group of people or vehicles than a whole mess of guided missiles.
    Now, I know that Artillery does not have the range of missiles or rockets, making it less of a threat, but it is no less dangerous in itself.

    And how do you <b>KNOW</b> Iraq does not have nuclear devices? They definitely have a whole mess of chemical weapons, and I know for a fact that they have many different forms of bio weapons such as Small Pox, Anthrax, Botulism, and a plethora of other potential weapons. They "acquired" many of these diseases and how to manufacture them from the Soviet Union, who had NCB weapons factories near their closest borders with Iraq. And did you know that the same type of Anthrax that was used in mail envelopes, was developed by the USSR and Iraq? Luckily this is one of the least effective ways to use it, and we did not suffer many casualties.
    It only takes a small bit of any type of bio weapon used in the right way to inflict tremendous casualties - and by tremendous I mean quarantine a city and start praying. The possibility of an attack such as this, however unlikely, is nonetheless a possibility.
    Terrorist organizations and hostile governments know that we are deep into an Anti-Terrorism War. This means that any country that harbors Terrorists (Iraq trains 'em!) could potentially be our next target. We should not let them back themselves into a corner because that is when they'll fight most fiercely.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    Im sure our government is doing alot about North Korea but *gasp* they aren't telling us oh the horror no CNN live coverage as our spys do there jobs, just because were not wageing what you would call an "open war" dose not mean we are doing nothing to stop or hinder North Korea....what the hell do you think those special ops guys do? If we want an open war we send in the grunts.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Which you can prove by...?

    But oh, yes, they're secret. Great chain of logic.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    And can you prove that they are doing nothing?


    No one can, we can all just asume what we wish, untill were told more
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    You made the claim, you have to prove it.

    I can readily prove that there's nothing hinting at any kind of covert op and even more that the US government is apparently trying for a diplomatical solution.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    Im not saying they are, and im not saying they are not, we don't know. This "maybe they are" "maybe they aren't" can go on forever with out an answer so lets move on shall we.

    I agree that North Korea seems like a much greater threat but the reality of them attacking the US is slim to none as I see it. Now Iraq loves to fund terrorists to attack us....but also North Korea sells its weapons its a tricky game.
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    Do people always accept the word of CNN as the Final word?

    Read Newsweek, watch the BBC/Al-Jazeera.

    Saddam Hussein hates terrorists. Al Qaeda and it's allies hate Saddam Hussein. Therefore Iraq has no real terrorists to do it's dirtywork, it uses soldiers and missiles g*ddamnit.

    And Iraq has one of the LARGEST pieces of artillery. or at least he did. If I remember my history correctly, it had roughly the range of 15-20 miles. Might be more. Still pretty impressive. and artillery is a WMD because you can't directly shoot an artillery cannon because they could be in a 180degree arc around you position and the farther you advance the greater that arc grows.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    edited February 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--SmokeNova+Feb 23 2003, 03:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmokeNova @ Feb 23 2003, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And Iraq has one of the LARGEST pieces of artillery.  or at least he did.  If I remember my history correctly, it had roughly the range of 15-20 miles.  Might be more.  Still pretty impressive.  and artillery is a WMD because you can't directly shoot an artillery cannon because they could be in a 180degree arc around you position and the farther you advance the greater that arc grows. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Unless he uses nukes in his artillery it is NOT a weapon of mass destruction
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    Don't you realize that a single artillery shell of sufficient size can tear apart 4-5 tanks at atime? the WMD Shrub constantly refers to are Massive WMD's. Artillery can be pretty mass-destructive.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    A gernade and 3 blocks of c4 can tear apart 4-5 tanks to. WMD are more like nukes and dirty bombs things that can kill many many people quicky.
  • Smoke_NovaSmoke_Nova Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8697Members
    Dirty bombs are not really mass destruction. They kill at most about a city block or two. The most damage comes from the after-effects of poisoning the ground.

    Artillery is a WMD because of the fact that you can't stop it from hitting. A dirty bomb still has to be set off.
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