This Is Why Its Easier To Win As Alien..
Jojoshua
NS Guide Professor Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5233Members
NS Guide Professor Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5233Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Its all about resources..</div> Ok here is the deal. I am not saying marine cant win because they most certainly can. Being a commander I have noticed one major thing that really offsets the games. When I send my marines out to put down RT's, they will ultimatly been gone by the time anyone can get back to it. I'd actually have to spend $ on trying to protect them. However, when an alien res node is being attacked. Of course the WHOLE team is notified of it. Then its only a matter of time before the guys attacking are chickenganked. Its hard to loose a RT as alien, and then the gorge can just spray it back to full when its over. And even put down 14 res for an OC near it to protect it, and 2 of em if they are really trying to get it. Thats just 28 Res to protect and tell exactly when they are trying to take down your RT. A TF + only 1 turret is 39. And we all know 1 turret is never enough to keep anything at bay. 1 skulk can take out multiple turrets easily just hit and run. The turrets compared to the alien OC dont do as much. Its 2-3 hits for an alien OC and I dont know how many for a turret, but I know its more. This is in 1.04. In previous patches the turret was only 16 and so was the OC for alien. The OC was also more comparable to the turret because it wasnt as fast as it is now. Now looking back I see that it doesnt seem logical to raise turret cost, lower OC cost and makethem more powerful. Maybe I should have put this in the suggestions post now, but I already got started so here are some suggestions I'd like you guys to think on.
Making alien RT cost more or less HP- I think the ability for every alien to sense when their RT is being attacked should increase its cost.
Or Make alien buildings, albeit the hives not be linked to the aliens at all. So they wont know when anything is being attacked but the hives. Or maybe just have the gorge who built the stuff be able to sense whats being attacked. SO then they can tell their buddies where to go.
Its kind of ridiculous when some skulk halfway across the map knows exactly when their RT or whatever is being attacked, one that they probably never knew was there anyway.
If the alien links stay the way it is, then marine need more stealth technology. If they cant go anywhere without alerting every alien where they go, then they really should all be "ghosts" ( as in the starcraft sense) Guys that can move around without being sensed unless they are in range of say a SENSORY chamber. Which would make sensory very more useful. Maybe it could be a new upgrade to upgrade a ghost, a tech electronic or something, but I dont think anyone would disagree that marines need more stealth to get around if aliens can track everywhere you are basically.
One more thing I forgot is that as a skulk I know that I can take down a RT with full energy and a half. Which is maybe about a min. 1 marine takes about 2 mins or more depending what they use. Plus if they even stay alive that long.
Now I want to go back and look at TF's and gorges. A gorge takes 13 res and after that he/she is free to build OC's on the entire map. However when a COM puts down a TF which costs 20 res, which also takes longer to build than go gorge, not to mention have someone build it only has a very very short range to build turrets, which cost more. Plus a TF can't redeem back to the marine base if its about to die <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . How about 1 TF with massive range to reach the whole map. If you say thats totally crazy, well think thats exactly what a gorge is. Only cheaper and less maintinence <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
So if you are one of those people that never play marine, and I know there are a lot of you...think about some of this stuff.
Apart from my suggestions, everything I've said is true, all facts. Let me know how you guys/gals think about what I've said. Thanks
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Making alien RT cost more or less HP- I think the ability for every alien to sense when their RT is being attacked should increase its cost.
Or Make alien buildings, albeit the hives not be linked to the aliens at all. So they wont know when anything is being attacked but the hives. Or maybe just have the gorge who built the stuff be able to sense whats being attacked. SO then they can tell their buddies where to go.
Its kind of ridiculous when some skulk halfway across the map knows exactly when their RT or whatever is being attacked, one that they probably never knew was there anyway.
If the alien links stay the way it is, then marine need more stealth technology. If they cant go anywhere without alerting every alien where they go, then they really should all be "ghosts" ( as in the starcraft sense) Guys that can move around without being sensed unless they are in range of say a SENSORY chamber. Which would make sensory very more useful. Maybe it could be a new upgrade to upgrade a ghost, a tech electronic or something, but I dont think anyone would disagree that marines need more stealth to get around if aliens can track everywhere you are basically.
One more thing I forgot is that as a skulk I know that I can take down a RT with full energy and a half. Which is maybe about a min. 1 marine takes about 2 mins or more depending what they use. Plus if they even stay alive that long.
Now I want to go back and look at TF's and gorges. A gorge takes 13 res and after that he/she is free to build OC's on the entire map. However when a COM puts down a TF which costs 20 res, which also takes longer to build than go gorge, not to mention have someone build it only has a very very short range to build turrets, which cost more. Plus a TF can't redeem back to the marine base if its about to die <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . How about 1 TF with massive range to reach the whole map. If you say thats totally crazy, well think thats exactly what a gorge is. Only cheaper and less maintinence <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
So if you are one of those people that never play marine, and I know there are a lot of you...think about some of this stuff.
Apart from my suggestions, everything I've said is true, all facts. Let me know how you guys/gals think about what I've said. Thanks
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
One problem.
The sides are supposed to have DIFFERING playstyles.
They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Marines are supposed to travel in groups and watch each other's backs, not 'ghost' off. Or as I prefer, Rambo. You see, it's <b>infinitely</b> easier to win as Marines than Aliens at the moment, so long as you aren't pubbing. And sometimes if you are, if your Comm can get the strategy across to people and have them follow orders.
Aliens only win due to unskilled, clueless Marines.. and Marines who quit out (F4) in the middle of a game, soon as they see a Fade, instead of RUSHING it and killing it, putting the Aliens out 54 RP. It's not that the Marines need to be made stronger, nor that the Aliens need to be weakened (far from it.. actually quite the reverse!) it's that you need Marines who know which end of the gun goes on their shoulder, and which points at the enemy.
(Oh.. and a little hint. As the Commander, it's YOUR job to tell your Marines, and _which_ marines, to go and save that RT. You are the single-point-of-contact. If you can't handle that, get out of the chair and let someone who can in.)
Secondly, if marines are having such troubles as you say, explain to me why they "always" win in clan matches?
One problem.
The sides are supposed to have DIFFERING playstyles.
They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Marines are supposed to travel in groups and watch each other's backs, not 'ghost' off. Or as I prefer, Rambo. You see, it's <b>infinitely</b> easier to win as Marines than Aliens at the moment, so long as you aren't pubbing. And sometimes if you are, if your Comm can get the strategy across to people and have them follow orders.
Aliens only win due to unskilled, clueless Marines.. and Marines who quit out (F4) in the middle of a game, soon as they see a Fade, instead of RUSHING it and killing it, putting the Aliens out 54 RP. It's not that the Marines need to be made stronger, nor that the Aliens need to be weakened (far from it.. actually quite the reverse!) it's that you need Marines who know which end of the gun goes on their shoulder, and which points at the enemy.
(Oh.. and a little hint. As the Commander, it's YOUR job to tell your Marines, and _which_ marines, to go and save that RT. You are the single-point-of-contact. If you can't handle that, get out of the chair and let someone who can in.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think you got what I said before. It takes about a min for only 1 skulk to take out a RT when you notice it. Then by the time I tell someone to get to it, the RT is gone.
Secondly, if marines are having such troubles as you say, explain to me why they "always" win in clan matches? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont really know why marines win clan matches so much. If they are as organized as the alien team its not hard to group up and take down a few people guarding a RT. So they can just move from one to the next. You would have to be camping 1 RT the whole game just to defend it. 5 skulks attacking 1 area is very destructive. Especially early game with carapace. You would have to ge Wep upgrade pretty fast.
Secondly, if marines are having such troubles as you say, explain to me why they "always" win in clan matches? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont really know why marines win clan matches so much. If they are as organized as the alien team its not hard to group up and take down a few people guarding a RT. So they can just move from one to the next. You would have to be camping 1 RT the whole game just to defend it. 5 skulks attacking 1 area is very destructive. Especially early game with carapace. You would have to ge Wep upgrade pretty fast. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its simple, the Aliens cannot get out of their base. Most clans use a contain strategy where as they try to contain the aliens in their own base by camping the entrances to hive and/or spawn killing. While the marines are doing this, someone is capping RTs, after about 3-4 RTs are up they only need to be up about 3-4 mins, and not only did they pay for themselves, but they also bought a protolab and maybe an upgraded armory. RTs dont need to be up long before they start pumping out vital resources.
Rushes:
Phase rush - place phase near hive and move out as marines spawn. Usually to take over unoccupied hives.
Tech rush - efend base and get tech up to JP so fast moving JP and welder/MG can take out hive before aliens can get second one.
Hive Rush - Eevryone moves out to kill hive/spawns quickly.
Relocate rush - No base buildup until marines are in unoccupied hive. The marines then hold hive and move for second.
None of these takes "skill". they just work because this is when the aliens are the weakest. IF the aliens manage to get a second hive, the marines have already teched many levels and can take out fades with ease since you don't have 5-6 fades attacking at once.
In pubs you don't usually see rushes, or if you do, they end as quickly as clan games. I have seen some of the greatest commandes in pub games where the situation changes by the minute. These commanders adapt instead of running a "pre-built script" for success.
The difference between rushing and not rushing is what makes the game go one way or another.
Alien resource towers do have less HP. I think its something like 3000HP for an alien Resource chamber and 5000HP for a marine one.
Change it anymore and it gets a bit ridiculous - they are exactly the same except the marine tower has more HP - its better.
Of course when they are being attacked it comes up on hivesite. And the commander is told when a marine resource tower is attacked. Strategically speaking, I'd say hivesite is a poor substitute for a commander. Be on the ball, tell your marines to get there quickly.
I have heard playtesters mention this - the game is designed with the fact that aliens can move and respond across the map better than marines can. Its one of their advantages.
Aliens:
-Bile Bomb
Marines:
-Grenade Launcher
-Siege
Now, GLs take a bit to get, siege isnt as bad and has much much more survivability. Bile Bomb you only get with the 3rd hive, its a game ender...thats it.
Is siege hard to get up? Yes, pretty much. But considering Aliens don't have anything equal too it, and the fact it can quickly kill structures, its a simple trade off.
IMHO the balance as far as structures is near perfect.
A skulk does 70 damage a bite and can inflict 5000 hp in a matter of seconds (just short of recycle time with energy depletion).
A marine does 10 damage per bullet for a max of 1500 + pistol? or to the knife to take down an RT and essentially ends up either out of ammo or as no-ranged-weapon-knifing-RT-skulk-food because of how LONG it takes for the marine to kill it.
Alien resource towers do have less HP. I think its something like 3000HP for an alien Resource chamber and 5000HP for a marine one.
Change it anymore and it gets a bit ridiculous - they are exactly the same except the marine tower has more HP - its better.
Of course when they are being attacked it comes up on hivesite. And the commander is told when a marine resource tower is attacked. Strategically speaking, I'd say hivesite is a poor substitute for a commander. Be on the ball, tell your marines to get there quickly.
I have heard playtesters mention this - the game is designed with the fact that aliens can move and respond across the map better than marines can. Its one of their advantages. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, I will give you an example. Say your on eclipse and you have about 5 things going on at once. You notice "your base is being attacked sound" and you rush around looking for what it is. It turns out to be the res right outside your base, station access. You tell your guys to get out there. Its gone. The time between finding whats being attacked when lots of things are going on, plus sending marines out is greater than the time for 1 skulk to take it out. The alien RES seems about 2x as long to take out even if it does have 2k less HP. Thats if you live.
Secondly, if marines are having such troubles as you say, explain to me why they "always" win in clan matches? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont really know why marines win clan matches so much. If they are as organized as the alien team its not hard to group up and take down a few people guarding a RT. So they can just move from one to the next. You would have to be camping 1 RT the whole game just to defend it. 5 skulks attacking 1 area is very destructive. Especially early game with carapace. You would have to ge Wep upgrade pretty fast. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its simple, the Aliens cannot get out of their base. Most clans use a contain strategy where as they try to contain the aliens in their own base by camping the entrances to hive and/or spawn killing. While the marines are doing this, someone is capping RTs, after about 3-4 RTs are up they only need to be up about 3-4 mins, and not only did they pay for themselves, but they also bought a protolab and maybe an upgraded armory. RTs dont need to be up long before they start pumping out vital resources. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
John, that sounds like a viable tactic but surely the aliens will either 1. Leave base for another hive at the beginning or 2. Break through with a big rush
<b>Mines.</b>