Honor
Onuma
Join Date: 2003-01-18 Member: 12428Members
Join Date: 2003-01-18 Member: 12428Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">...or the lack thereof?</div> I was thinking about a great many things in my drive home tonight. One of the thoughts that occurred to me was of honor, and how this great value has diminished so much in society.
Honor has risen and fallen with the times - hopefully it will rise to be an important value in popular culture again, and hopefully soon.
Personally, I try to be as honorable of a person whenever possible. That is just one of my values that is based on how I was raised, what I've learned on my own, and through contact with other people; I gathered my opinions and learnings about honor and decided that I liked it and I feel that people in general should try to be honorable once more. It is still just one piece in of the grand scheme of things, however - honor alone cannot solve the problems of our world today...but that should be left for another day's discussion.
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I feel this is a worthy topic to create and I'd like to hear your thoughts on honor. Some may say that the time of honor has long passed, some may still believe in it as strongly as I do...but regardless I would like to discuss and hear what everyone has to say. Let us <i>try</i> to keep it flame free...though it probably won't last long that way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Honor has risen and fallen with the times - hopefully it will rise to be an important value in popular culture again, and hopefully soon.
Personally, I try to be as honorable of a person whenever possible. That is just one of my values that is based on how I was raised, what I've learned on my own, and through contact with other people; I gathered my opinions and learnings about honor and decided that I liked it and I feel that people in general should try to be honorable once more. It is still just one piece in of the grand scheme of things, however - honor alone cannot solve the problems of our world today...but that should be left for another day's discussion.
---
I feel this is a worthy topic to create and I'd like to hear your thoughts on honor. Some may say that the time of honor has long passed, some may still believe in it as strongly as I do...but regardless I would like to discuss and hear what everyone has to say. Let us <i>try</i> to keep it flame free...though it probably won't last long that way <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
<other stuff>
Vyour answerV
I however believe in honor. Bushido. I also believe in Chivalric honor, where you do good by your lady and do nice things for her and stuff. If it takes me 3 seconds to hold open a door for someone, I do.
Thank you, Onuma-Sama very opening a good thread. I'd be intrested to see how many people think they have honor.
I am glad to see there is at least one person who agrees with me on this.
The bushido was a good code of honor, even if not always followed by the Samurai. Sure vs. each other they would be honorable, but between a Samurai and a Peasant things were different. Often Samurai would test the edge of their blade by cutting down a peasant. I do not see the honor in that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Bushido" means - "The Way of the Warrior", I suppose since Peasants were not warriors <i>per se</i> it seemingly did not apply to them.
And of course, honor does not simply apply to warfare. As Smoke stated, holding a door open for someone is just as honorable as facing them man-to-man in a duel to the death.
Chivalry isn't dead - it is dying and has been since the firearm took its place on the battlefield, but not dead altogether.
[edit]Onuma-Sama...man that makes my name sound more asian than it already does. It is archaic Greek though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I can see why it gets confused.[/edit]
I don't see honor in that. I thought its how most of us behave <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't see honor in that. I thought its how most of us behave <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was raised to be as considerate as possible to other people, I like to think this is second nature for me. Kudos to my parents. If that's honor, then so be it.
I have to admit that I couldn't define the meaning of honor, but just to be considerate to others (for example hold open a door for someone, helping older people etc) isn't what I would call "honorable"...
What would be your definition of "honor"?
Now, with firearms being even easier to acquire and use, the honor inherent in medieval, and pre-medieval, warfare, is gone. Due to this, the other tenets of chivalry and other codes of warfare have also disappeared, without the backbone of battlefield honor to back them up.
And me? I try to be as chivalrous as possible. I don't hit someone when they're down. I <b>never</b> hit a girl. I hold doors for people. Yes, sometimes I slip up and go apecrap on someone, but at least I try. More than some people I know. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
and just being considerate is Chivalric honor. The warriors honor is Bushido honor (where I consider anyone who threatens me to be a warrior, I will fight them as such).
Ever play Earth Special Forces (HL mod about DBZ)?
When I did play I refused to smack someone from behind, I never double-teamed (unless they did it to me more then 1 time) and I never hit from behind.
That's not the point. Whether it was practiced or not, the idea is what counts.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What would be your definition of "honor"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would define "honor"...(hrm that's a tough one to get into a single sentence)...things that people do in consideration for others which does not benefit themselves.
It's such a simple principle but at the same time, is difficult to define with so few words. You don't have to hold a door open for someone, it's just the good thing to do. A duellist would not stab his opponent in the back if he had honor; sure he would stay alive longer if he did, as continuing the fight face to face could very well mean his demise. A boxer would not purposely punch his opponent in the groin for the sake of winning; he just might get hit in the groin himself, but the point is that he is better than that.
Making a better person of one's self through unnecessary actions, maybe?
Do you know what I'm getting at? Perhaps the definition is a bit skewed but with so little time to think about the definition of "honor" in itself, I cannot yet formulate a complete thought on it. I'll sleep on this matter and hopefully come up with a bit more of an answer tomorrow.
I think honor is treating others fairly and staying true to yourself. If you do both of those then you cannot go wrong
But right in itself is so hard to nail down a definition for, that that one is just circular reasoning. I don't know for sure.
But right in itself is so hard to nail down a definition for, that that one is just circular reasoning. I don't know for sure. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh, thats about right. But trying to come up with foolproof way of always doing whats right is the trick.
Therefore, perfection is in the eye of the beholder.
Honor isn't something you define, but rather something you are. When you are honorable, it's like being in the zone, you just feel it.
Honor during a fight is what has allready been said, not attacking from behind or when your oponent is unarmed or thrown to the ground. It is honor that would keep you from intervening in a fight where to evenly matched enemies battle, as well as helping out anyone that is seriously outnumbered. This kind of honor has probably never existed and even if it did, it was lost during the course of history, as it is easier to kill without honor then to follow by these strict rules, which could easily give away an advantage.
In honor in everyday life is more subtle and can in many places simply be associated with good manors or simple fairness. For example not cheating on your wife/husband, helping out friends, fairness in business and recreative activites, like online gaming and sports. Unfortunately this sort of honor is almost as uncommon as the first type, even though there those fortunate few,( a band of brothers... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ), who had the kind of education that teaches you these simple values.
Those are people like us... ave, terra, morituri te salutant!
Honor isn't something you define, but rather something you are. When you are honorable, it's like being in the zone, you just feel it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first part is exactly what he is talking about. Perfection is in the eyes of the beholder. But you probably understood that. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can't really agree with you on the second part either. Everything can be defined to an extent. For example, the Bushio Code rigidly defined the supposed code of honor for the samurai, even though it was not in fact practiced all the time.
nobody is perfect
and i am nobody
hence i am perfect muahahah
*yeah i know i stole it from somone else * <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
J/K <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->