Map Balance
civman2
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Which maps benefit which sides?</div> Well, its that time in the mods life that everyone knows what they're doing, and I think I've seen some trends in the win-lose on maps.
I mostly play on Fists of Ra, Homelan, Hastezone, and [ReD] Skulk Pit, and this is what I've been seeing.
Ns_Bast. This map seems pretty even to me, maybe favoring the aliens a bit. If they marines can get JP HMG, they can take out refinary and engine easily, feedwater proves a bit more difficult, but it isn't too hard of a nut to crack. The aliens can get tons of res very quickly, but if the marines get in the air fast enough, it's all over. With atmospheric at their fingertips, I'd say it's pretty much anyone's game.
Ns_Eclipse. What I've noticed usually happens on this map is that one side will put all their res into securing a hive, and then the other side will wipe it out or fail to wipe it out, and that will decide the game. This map seems small to me, and there are only about 9 nozzles on the map. The hives are fairly easily defended thanks to the smallish hive rooms and their narrow entrances. This map totally has the crap bugged out of it in terms of TF upgrading tho, I can't tell you how a siege near triad or in South Loop would have swung games I've commanded.
Ns_Nothing. If the aliens don't start at cargo, and the marines are competant, good game team two. The three nozzles at cargo are more than enough to fuel the JP HMG rush on the two easiest hives to JP HMG. It takes one heck of a organized marine team to win when the aliens have cargo, as the two nodes that are easily capped are hard to defend, and the aliens get to go cap the other 14. I really think this map needs to be revised to make cargo less of a powerplay.
Ns_Tanith. Personally, I hate this map. It's wicked hard to win as either side, mostly because it's so balanced and the marines can't JP the hives good. It's not an easy map as either team, but it's pretty balanced and more skill-intesive than any of the others. The marine start is very hard to defend, and the hive rooms are easily lerked.
Ns_Hera. I'd have to say this is an alien map. A half-decent team should have no trouble keeping the marines pinned in their base, as the only two ways out are easy to ambush and are turny hallways for like 300 yards. Never mind the fact that their's a double siege location here, the marines will rarely be able to reach it and live long enough to slap down the TF. I think the only game I lost as aliens on this map was one where they pulled off a relocation to Data Core <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->. This is one of my favorite maps, however, and I really like all the cool stuff you can do with welders.
Ns_Nancy. gg aliens. Cap node outside base, cap messhall, tech up, rush hive before they built their defence chamber. I've done it everytime I've commed on this map, and it's worked everytime too. With an 8 man team, you can cover the three nodes, and then drop someone HMG JP within 8 minutes. There's not much the aliens can do about that guy flying around subspace without lerks.
Ns_Caged. This map has some close games. It's all about blocking that door in shipping. You lock them out of a third of the map, and then you only need defenses in sewer. And then you get a skulk chuckling in the vent, and all the new players stand there with their lmg's drawn waiting for him to come out (guess what, he's not going to). Plus, a lerk in that vent can kill any poorly placed structure at marines start. And none of the RTs are anywhere near the hives. Sewer is a pain to hold, because marines can shoot thru the floor just before the top of a ladder, and lerks can sit in those two red pipes and snipe all ur stuff, without alerting the turrets.
Most of the maps are balanced, but I think that some of them need a second version released to fix some problems that arose that weren't intended *cough*nancyvents*cough*processing*cough*outsideofnancy*cough* sorry about that, allergies you know.
What do you think about the maps?
I mostly play on Fists of Ra, Homelan, Hastezone, and [ReD] Skulk Pit, and this is what I've been seeing.
Ns_Bast. This map seems pretty even to me, maybe favoring the aliens a bit. If they marines can get JP HMG, they can take out refinary and engine easily, feedwater proves a bit more difficult, but it isn't too hard of a nut to crack. The aliens can get tons of res very quickly, but if the marines get in the air fast enough, it's all over. With atmospheric at their fingertips, I'd say it's pretty much anyone's game.
Ns_Eclipse. What I've noticed usually happens on this map is that one side will put all their res into securing a hive, and then the other side will wipe it out or fail to wipe it out, and that will decide the game. This map seems small to me, and there are only about 9 nozzles on the map. The hives are fairly easily defended thanks to the smallish hive rooms and their narrow entrances. This map totally has the crap bugged out of it in terms of TF upgrading tho, I can't tell you how a siege near triad or in South Loop would have swung games I've commanded.
Ns_Nothing. If the aliens don't start at cargo, and the marines are competant, good game team two. The three nozzles at cargo are more than enough to fuel the JP HMG rush on the two easiest hives to JP HMG. It takes one heck of a organized marine team to win when the aliens have cargo, as the two nodes that are easily capped are hard to defend, and the aliens get to go cap the other 14. I really think this map needs to be revised to make cargo less of a powerplay.
Ns_Tanith. Personally, I hate this map. It's wicked hard to win as either side, mostly because it's so balanced and the marines can't JP the hives good. It's not an easy map as either team, but it's pretty balanced and more skill-intesive than any of the others. The marine start is very hard to defend, and the hive rooms are easily lerked.
Ns_Hera. I'd have to say this is an alien map. A half-decent team should have no trouble keeping the marines pinned in their base, as the only two ways out are easy to ambush and are turny hallways for like 300 yards. Never mind the fact that their's a double siege location here, the marines will rarely be able to reach it and live long enough to slap down the TF. I think the only game I lost as aliens on this map was one where they pulled off a relocation to Data Core <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->. This is one of my favorite maps, however, and I really like all the cool stuff you can do with welders.
Ns_Nancy. gg aliens. Cap node outside base, cap messhall, tech up, rush hive before they built their defence chamber. I've done it everytime I've commed on this map, and it's worked everytime too. With an 8 man team, you can cover the three nodes, and then drop someone HMG JP within 8 minutes. There's not much the aliens can do about that guy flying around subspace without lerks.
Ns_Caged. This map has some close games. It's all about blocking that door in shipping. You lock them out of a third of the map, and then you only need defenses in sewer. And then you get a skulk chuckling in the vent, and all the new players stand there with their lmg's drawn waiting for him to come out (guess what, he's not going to). Plus, a lerk in that vent can kill any poorly placed structure at marines start. And none of the RTs are anywhere near the hives. Sewer is a pain to hold, because marines can shoot thru the floor just before the top of a ladder, and lerks can sit in those two red pipes and snipe all ur stuff, without alerting the turrets.
Most of the maps are balanced, but I think that some of them need a second version released to fix some problems that arose that weren't intended *cough*nancyvents*cough*processing*cough*outsideofnancy*cough* sorry about that, allergies you know.
What do you think about the maps?
Comments
Even if that "technique" was toned down, I'd still love the map, just because it's so evenly-balanced between both sides, moreso than any other in my opinion.
2) The first time I wanted to play on Ra Natura I was banned, thing it was something with my brother going on my pc.
When you look at balence, it almost never depends on the map, but on the player number.
H2O-4 18 person
Bast Marine: 22.50%
Caged Marine: 24.30%
Tanith Marine: 26.17%
Hera Marine: 31.18%
Nancy Marine: 31.97%
Eclipse Marine: 36.82%
(didn't have nothing in the cycle... fixed now)
H2O-5 18 person
Eclipse Marine: 36.82%
Hera Marine: 31.18%
Tanith Marine: 26.17%
Nancy Marine: 31.97%
Bast Marine: 22.50%
Caged Marine: 24.30%
On my 30 (now 24) person server, the Marines have an advantage (probably due to respawn rates).
H2O-7 30 person (now 24)
Hera Marine: 46.53%
Tanith Marine: 48.04%
Bast Marine: 48.15%
Caged Marine: 60.00%
nancy Marine: 61.17%
Nothing Marine: 70.87%
Eclipse Marine: 71.70%
But you actually can see a few map dependencies, but the game is still fun.
Means the marines need to be VERY aggressive early on before the aliens have enough res to block off the map. Getting a phase gate into storage is the #2 priority, after reactor room.
Nancy and mess hall.. yea, you have to have GOOD aliens to win that map. You can defend messhall with four skulks or so ... that door into messhall can be used for really wicked purposes, not to mention the roof vent opening just outside the door. Takes a good and patient alien team though... usually, the aliens players gets itchy teeth if they have to wait more than 15 seconds for their next marine meal.
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Nah, it's the resource model - marines have fixed costs for buildings and research, but income is scaled to teamsize, so really large team can tech up insanely fast. Spawn rate also makes larger teams better for the marines, but the resource model is the huge thing.
Bw, it would be interesting to see if alien starting hive affects the win%.
Nah, it is pretty much impossible for both servers to have that many percentages the EXACT same.
One of two things comes to mind:
1. You got your information wrong, and maybe accidentally just copied one set twice.
2. The server status itself gives the %s of all the servers averaged.
Ns_Eclipse. Favors marines with the long open hallways and vulnerable hives (CC and MA), marine base is very easy to defend as well.
Ns_Nothing. Favors aliens if they start in Cargo, otherwise marines. My favorite map as both alien and marine due to its' size, layout and plentiful res.
Ns_Tanith. Bit easier for marines I think, loads of res, 6 nodes can be covered with 3 TF's if you feel like it. Very important to start aggressively though.
Ns_Hera. I really don't liek this map and rarely play it, so I don't have an opinion.
Ns_Nancy. I don't agree at all with it being so marine biased. A good alien team will camp Mess Hall and Aux Gen with their whole team, thus denying the marines the whole map. Mess hall is VERY easy to hold with 4+ skulks and usually the marines only chance is to go via Aux Gen to Port and NoName. It mostly revolves around if the marines can take mess hall or not, but is nicely balanced in my opinion.
Ns_Caged. By far the easiest map for aliens. So few res nodes for marines, easily defendable hives (with no res in them except vent, which is VERY hard for marines to get to before aliens have it secured). Just 8 res nodes on the whole map, and none of them very easy to defend. When marines win they have usually been hyper aggressive or just out-skilled the aliens by a wide margin.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Bast. This map seems pretty even to me, maybe favoring the aliens a bit. If they marines can get JP HMG, they can take out refinary and engine easily, feedwater proves a bit more difficult, but it isn't too hard of a nut to crack. The aliens can get tons of res very quickly, but if the marines get in the air fast enough, it's all over. With atmospheric at their fingertips, I'd say it's pretty much anyone's game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I usually see aliens win here. Although, it can really go both ways. Feedwater is too hard to secure as marines because of all the water and unlevel ground. Refinary usually fails to a JPer, because its so damn open to it. Engine is too close to marine start, and too easy to get to, making it a pain to get as a hive. It's an okay map IMO. Marine can win on big servers if they get Aux Gen and Feedwater (3 rez nozzles, plus the 1 in spawn), and tech up like crazy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Eclipse. What I've noticed usually happens on this map is that one side will put all their res into securing a hive, and then the other side will wipe it out or fail to wipe it out, and that will decide the game. This map seems small to me, and there are only about 9 nozzles on the map. The hives are fairly easily defended thanks to the smallish hive rooms and their narrow entrances. This map totally has the crap bugged out of it in terms of TF upgrading tho, I can't tell you how a siege near triad or in South Loop would have swung games I've commanded.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to like this map, until I tried to COMM it...and now I hate it, lol. God this map is bugged. As mentioned, south loop/computer core area is basicly seige proof (although I know like 2 spots you can). Ecplise is also hell if you relocate...because, well, you can't upgrade ANYTHING there! Lots of marines take ecplise, when I gorge, I tell my team about that bug...as soon as they build there, we rush their base hard, force a relocate, then they are basicly screwed. It works <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I hate the res tower placement here, they are IMPOSSIBLE to defend as a marine, unless you give each one a phase and turrets. I think this is the smallest map in the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Nothing. If the aliens don't start at cargo, and the marines are competant, good game team two. The three nozzles at cargo are more than enough to fuel the JP HMG rush on the two easiest hives to JP HMG. It takes one heck of a organized marine team to win when the aliens have cargo, as the two nodes that are easily capped are hard to defend, and the aliens get to go cap the other 14. I really think this map needs to be revised to make cargo less of a powerplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, its all about cargo. Cargo=win. Although a good group of marines who work quickly to take Powersilo and Viaduct can end it for the aliens pretty quickly. Viaduct is just impossible to defend for the aliens, the big long hallways, redroom, the vent access form powersilo (and we all know marines own vents), the list goes on. Marines usually win here unless the aliens are good and quick to kill all their advances.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Tanith. Personally, I hate this map. It's wicked hard to win as either side, mostly because it's so balanced and the marines can't JP the hives good. It's not an easy map as either team, but it's pretty balanced and more skill-intesive than any of the others. The marine start is very hard to defend, and the hive rooms are easily lerked.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good map. Aliens usually have the advantage here. One thing I'd like to point out is a HUGE exploit at waste handling (if i have the map right...). If the Marines weld the vents, and the aliens get fades...the fades can shoot THROUGH the welded vents without being attacked back. Not even grenades can harm them in the vents. And 1 fade can just shoot the waste handling mini-base from complete safety until it dies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Hera. I'd have to say this is an alien map. A half-decent team should have no trouble keeping the marines pinned in their base, as the only two ways out are easy to ambush and are turny hallways for like 300 yards. Never mind the fact that their's a double siege location here, the marines will rarely be able to reach it and live long enough to slap down the TF. I think the only game I lost as aliens on this map was one where they pulled off a relocation to Data Core . This is one of my favorite maps, however, and I really like all the cool stuff you can do with welders.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alien map? Nah. This map is about Holoroom (which both teams can cap, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, ya just gotta know how) and processing. If marines hold processing, they win. You can seige two hives from processing at once.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Nancy. gg aliens. Cap node outside base, cap messhall, tech up, rush hive before they built their defence chamber. I've done it everytime I've commed on this map, and it's worked everytime too. With an 8 man team, you can cover the three nodes, and then drop someone HMG JP within 8 minutes. There's not much the aliens can do about that guy flying around subspace without lerks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, this map is a little too weak to jetpacks. Jetpacks win this map time and time again. Messhall is very important too. If the aliens stop your jetpack attempts, you can make grenade rushes to subspace and port pretty easily. Rarely see aliens win here unless the comm is a noob.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ns_Caged. This map has some close games. It's all about blocking that door in shipping. You lock them out of a third of the map, and then you only need defenses in sewer. And then you get a skulk chuckling in the vent, and all the new players stand there with their lmg's drawn waiting for him to come out (guess what, he's not going to). Plus, a lerk in that vent can kill any poorly placed structure at marines start. And none of the RTs are anywhere near the hives. Sewer is a pain to hold, because marines can shoot thru the floor just before the top of a ladder, and lerks can sit in those two red pipes and snipe all ur stuff, without alerting the turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I HATE THIS MAP!!!!!!!!! That stupid vent from sewer ruins the chances for marines every time i have played. If the aliens know their stuff, they will get a gorge in there, build some D for healing, and rush-retreat until its all down. Most aliens defend sewer with their lives and not allow the marines to weld the vent. This is an alien map by FAR. I don't recall ever seeing marines win here unless everyone on alien went gorge and humped the wall all game. Plus, aliens can block the door to vent easily, and the only way past is a seige, which is hard to get up before the skulks come rushing in to chomp everything to death.