Who knows where I can find a spec for rmf files (WC native format)? I'm making a map processing tool and I neeeds it. Looked on google and the collective with no luck.
I don't think the .rmf format has been published. You can export to .map (which is a public format) and then load the map back into WC but you'll lose group and camera information...
<!--QuoteBegin--Jedediah+Feb 12 2003, 06:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jedediah @ Feb 12 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And why hasn't Valve published rmf? Jeez, throw us a bone.. IMHO the WC source should be available by now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No argument here <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> -- there are a few things that WC just doesn't do very well and a couple of bugs I'd love to see fixed.
Prefab format is probably a variant of rmf, if not identical.
On the topic of the file format, I wonder if Valve would be willing to publish a rmf read/write source sample (they may not have formal documentation for the format, depending on how organized they are)... I also wonder if Valve would get upset with a theoretical person if that person theoretically reverse engineered rmf... id Software doesn't protect its formats, but that policy varies by company.
EDIT: I do find it a little amusing that the editor file format is proprietary while the game file format is public... seems a little backward since the motivation to "exploit" an editor file isn't there. Perhaps it's because of the fact MAP is text based and BSP was published by id (/me slaps myself for saying BSP earlier and meaning MAP).
I've emailed Valve's SDK address asking about how they feel on the issue of publishing/reverse engineering the format, so hopefully you'll have an answer one way or the other soon.
It's probably an issue of man hours rather than protecting their intellectual property. But yeah, a little source snip would be nice and it wouldn't be a big deal for them. Thanks for the email.. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Reverse engineering is a possibility too.. I'll see what I can make of it.
I'd really like to get this tool working.. it would open up a great deal of flexibility for brush shapes.. no more worrying about vertex manipulation messing up your maps. I really wanted to make it part of the compile chain too but I guess that isn't possible.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jedediah+Feb 12 2003, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jedediah @ Feb 12 2003, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I really wanted to make it part of the compile chain too but I guess that isn't possible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately not due to the map format--since it stores plane information instead of face vertex lists, it can't store the non-planar quads that vertex manipluation can create. You might be able to detect and flag some extreme cases of concave brushes (which can also be made by vertex manip and may go unreported) if you realize that WC wrote out planes that don't contribute faces to the brush, but that's about it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jobabob+Feb 13 2003, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jobabob @ Feb 13 2003, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> possibly because worldcraft is still the intelectual property of some other company than valve, same goes for hammer, just with a diff name <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would imagine Valve bought all the IP rights to WC.. I doubt they would have it any other way.
valve dont own the .rmf format, it belongs to this company <a href='http://www.telcontar.com/services/data_rmf.html' target='_blank'>http://www.telcontar.com/services/data_rmf.html</a> telcontar. incidentaly .rmf can also store midi information.
<!--QuoteBegin--blue2k+Feb 13 2003, 01:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blue2k @ Feb 13 2003, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> valve dont own the .rmf format, it belongs to this company <a href='http://www.telcontar.com/services/data_rmf.html' target='_blank'>http://www.telcontar.com/services/data_rmf.html</a> telcontar. incidentaly .rmf can also store midi information. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Very strange.. that site talks about both .rmf and .rmx files. But that has to be a coincidence.. they are talking about road maps.. I don't think that could be used to store WC maps. Besides, the WC .rmx is just a backup of the .rmf file not an "ASCII sequential file adhering to the Uniform Data Model (UDM) specifications".
im sorry but most of that was gibberish. i cant code, so you may be making sense or not <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> needless to say this company own the .rmf format whether they use it to make maps or whatever isnt important. what is, is that now you have a contact point to inquire about that file format.
also not only is this a "rich map format", but there is another type of .rmf file. namely a "rich music format", see here. <a href='http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websound/sld026.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websou...ound/sld026.htm</a> this is a totally different file type only sharing the same.extension.
hope this helps you out, but as i said i dont know jack sh*t about code.
<!--QuoteBegin--blue2k+Feb 13 2003, 06:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blue2k @ Feb 13 2003, 06:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> im sorry but most of that was gibberish. i cant code, so you may be making sense or not <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> needless to say this company own the .rmf format whether they use it to make maps or whatever isnt important. what is, is that now you have a contact point to inquire about that file format.
also not only is this a "rich map format", but there is another type of .rmf file. namely a "rich music format", see here. <a href='http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websound/sld026.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websou...ound/sld026.htm</a> this is a totally different file type only sharing the same.extension.
hope this helps you out, but as i said i dont know jack sh*t about code. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What I'm saying is I don't think the .rmf format owned by telcontar is the same format as the one used by WC. It's just a coincidence that they have the same extension.
yeah i know, but i think it very well maybe. its just that they use it for something else. there are a lot of file extension sites online, and they all mention that there are only two types of rmf, "rich map" and "rich music" so i assumed it would be the rich map format and telconar owned the proprietary rights to that format. it may be worth an inquiring email man you never know. ill keep looking for more intel for you in the meantime.
Comments
Know any other way I can get access to the map before it's exported? Maybe prefab files?
And why hasn't Valve published rmf? Jeez, throw us a bone.. IMHO the WC source should be available by now.
No argument here <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> -- there are a few things that WC just doesn't do very well and a couple of bugs I'd love to see fixed.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe prefab files?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prefab format is probably a variant of rmf, if not identical.
On the topic of the file format, I wonder if Valve would be willing to publish a rmf read/write source sample (they may not have formal documentation for the format, depending on how organized they are)... I also wonder if Valve would get upset with a theoretical person if that person theoretically reverse engineered rmf... id Software doesn't protect its formats, but that policy varies by company.
EDIT: I do find it a little amusing that the editor file format is proprietary while the game file format is public... seems a little backward since the motivation to "exploit" an editor file isn't there. Perhaps it's because of the fact MAP is text based and BSP was published by id (/me slaps myself for saying BSP earlier and meaning MAP).
I've emailed Valve's SDK address asking about how they feel on the issue of publishing/reverse engineering the format, so hopefully you'll have an answer one way or the other soon.
Reverse engineering is a possibility too.. I'll see what I can make of it.
I'd really like to get this tool working.. it would open up a great deal of flexibility for brush shapes.. no more worrying about vertex manipulation messing up your maps. I really wanted to make it part of the compile chain too but I guess that isn't possible.
Unfortunately not due to the map format--since it stores plane information instead of face vertex lists, it can't store the non-planar quads that vertex manipluation can create. You might be able to detect and flag some extreme cases of concave brushes (which can also be made by vertex manip and may go unreported) if you realize that WC wrote out planes that don't contribute faces to the brush, but that's about it.
I would imagine Valve bought all the IP rights to WC.. I doubt they would have it any other way.
telcontar. incidentaly .rmf can also store midi information.
telcontar. incidentaly .rmf can also store midi information. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very strange.. that site talks about both .rmf and .rmx files. But that has to be a coincidence.. they are talking about road maps.. I don't think that could be used to store WC maps. Besides, the WC .rmx is just a backup of the .rmf file not an "ASCII sequential file adhering to the Uniform Data Model (UDM) specifications".
also not only is this a "rich map format", but there is another type of .rmf file. namely a "rich music format", see here. <a href='http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websound/sld026.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websou...ound/sld026.htm</a> this is a totally different file type only sharing the same.extension.
hope this helps you out, but as i said i dont know jack sh*t about code.
also not only is this a "rich map format", but there is another type of .rmf file. namely a "rich music format", see here. <a href='http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websound/sld026.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.tlcproductions.net/sound/websou...ound/sld026.htm</a> this is a totally different file type only sharing the same.extension.
hope this helps you out, but as i said i dont know jack sh*t about code. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is I don't think the .rmf format owned by telcontar is the same format as the one used by WC. It's just a coincidence that they have the same extension.
so i assumed it would be the rich map format and telconar owned the proprietary rights to that format. it may be worth an inquiring email man you never know. ill keep looking for more intel for you in the meantime.