<!--QuoteBegin--Evil Timmy+Feb 11 2003, 03:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Feb 11 2003, 03:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Pure and simple, it's pointless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What video game does have a point? Games are supposed to be fun, that's all. When you start to get further in-depth than that, they become boring.
Some video games are good in that they greatly increase hand-eye coordination. Some are good in that they teach children things in different manners than reading a book or hearing a lecture in school.
NS falls in to the coordination category - you can learn to not concentrate on one thing, but several at once. The comm is giving orders, the marines are briefing you on their location, you're guarding a hall or doorway, and you are listening for those tiny footsteps that spook us out when we don't know where they're coming from. That is just fun as hell...I love it to death. Sure it's a waste of time, as are 99.99% of all video games, but I don't really care.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS is based on the half-life engine people. Half-life is created by valve Quake was created by ID software Half life is NOT got ANYTHING to do with quake.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Says you. Have you looked at the code for Quake (1 or 2...doesn't matter) and Half-Life? They have so many similarities that it cannot be ignored that they were developed with some sort of relationship to each other. The gameplay and physics are nearly identical, leave out aesthetics - those are unique to every game.
And just because ID makes one and Valve/Sierra makes the other, means they're not based off the same source code? Negative...look at how many different companies produce Linux (granted that's based off GNU), but just because one company that makes product <i>X</i> is not the same as the other who makes product <i>Y</i> doesn't mean there is some commonality between them.
maybe you should try some competition-level play. that's what i do, and it makes any game more enjoyable, especially if its a good bunch of people you are playing with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The HL engine is a revamped, overhauled, souped-up, semi-Quake-2-ified Quake 1 engine at its core. This is true. This game evolved from Quake, although NS is such a huge evolution from HL that the similarities are only apparent in wall-strafing and .bsp and .mdl filenames.
HL != Quake but the engine is a modified Q1 engine.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the same way that a game of CS has no point, NS has no point, but it's on a somewhat larger scale. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'Point'.
Right.
Does anyone else think someone is <i>missing</i> the point?
May I politely suggest that you aren't really a multiplayer action gamer. Try out Baldur's Gate or Planescape, or even Diablo 2. They may be more your basket.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is based on the half-life engine people. Half-life is created by valve Quake was created by ID software Half life is NOT got ANYTHING to do with quake. Quake is good Half-life is better Repeate this 100 times a day untill you beleive it, or the men in white coats will come and MAKE you belive it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
NS is a modification for halflife, whose engine is the Quake -1 engine. NOT THE QUAKE 2 ENGINE (which itself is a modified Q1 engine anyway). This is an amazingly common error. HL is based on a purchased Quake (1) engine from Id Software.
THAT is the link between Valve and Id.
If you don't believe me... 1) check the file formats for HL and compare it to Q2, then Q1. HL has .pak files, which are 100% viewable by my quake1 pak editor. HL uses .mdl not .md2. Etc. 2) Check idsoftware's site. It is harder to navigate than than a vent system as a HA marine, but it is all in there. The vaunted 'HL engine' IS the quake 1 engine, on drugs. I don't know how much code in HL would be untouched from Q1 (not a great deal I suspect), but that is its entire base. 3) Ask someone in the know. Like email valve.
Say this 100 times and slap anyone else who insists that id are not the root of all engine goodness. Taking nothing away from valve, id are the engine masters, Carmack is the God of Engines.
The fact that we are playing this game as a fresh, new, mind blowing thing, based on his code from <i>a game released a decade ago</i> is I feel enough evidence alone to make this statement.
<!--QuoteBegin--+Hozart++Feb 11 2003, 06:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (+Hozart+ @ Feb 11 2003, 06:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think this has to do with the only strategies that Marines can use to win are the phasegate-hive-rush or jetpack rush, or any type of "rush" because THAT is the ONLY way to win.
Not to mention the Alien Defense-Movement-Sensory, because THAT is the ONLY way to win. So, he's posting because its been this way for a while and he's bored of it.
However, we'll probably see him playing again once 1.1 comes out (SHOULD have more strategies available that actually WORKS). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, wrong, wrong. I don't want to come off as hostile, but that is entirely incorrect. A coordinated and experienced marine team has a whole number of winning strategies availible to them; the "welder train" (a squad of upgraded HA/HMG+welder+hp spam. NO HIVE RUSHING, just single hive lockdown to preserve resources. As all strategies only works with 6+ players) is by far the most fun, deathmatch style; sneaking a siege into a hidden spot next to the hive can also be great fun. Turret crawling and two hive lockdown also work, although they are not quite as fun. Quick tech to shotties and MT can sometimes prove interesting. Sneaking a tf and a group of turrets into the hive room itself is an adrenaline rush. Hive relocation is a (very) valid tactic. LA/GL march midgame (around the time the aliens get second hive, but before fades) works wonders if it can be pulled off. Elements such as hive harassment (one marine dedicated to sneaking into a hiveroom and shooting teh hvie a couple of times) can be integrated into any of the above, and all the mentioned strategies can be mixed and matched. And don't get me started on various alien strategies (let's just say sensory+patient skulks=no expansion for marines). If the players on your favorite server only rush the hive it's either a) too big (20+ player servers are unbalanced beyond belief and should be avoided at all costs) or b) too uncreative. Find a better server, such as the one in my sig (just fill in the app, it's free and the onyl purpose is keeping the server lamer-proof).
If you look at it one way... most things in life ... even life itself in some cases can be considered pointless... you do a few things in your lifetime and then become dust.... pointless years? eh.. you decide.
Then its from the Movie Aliens. Its Hudson, when Bishop does the Knife thingy, at the mess hall in the Ship. and its him screaming. Ill admit that I found it fairly creepy till I watched the movie recently and remembered where it was from. Actually, the majority of the Avatars (Or rather the ones supplied on the NS fourms are from Alien, and aliens, and are of the main characters involved.)
Oh id have sent this through PM, but for some reason it wont work for me. I get a TCP error whenever I try to send anyhting to anyone, or even save a message.
Oh and as for indepth to a game, TFC had no story, and it was massivly popular. CS Has no story and its stupily popular. NS HAS a story, and its fast growing popular (Hopefull will one day beat that godawfull game CS)
<!--QuoteBegin--Evil Timmy+Feb 11 2003, 08:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Feb 11 2003, 08:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First, before you jump all over me, NS is a wonderful game, and by far the best mod for any game ever; the design is brilliant, it's well-executed, looks great, etc.
However, it's pointless. Pure and simple, it's pointless. In the same way that a game of CS has no point, NS has no point, but it's on a somewhat larger scale. Games don't affect other games, there's no developing story, there's no roleplaying aspect...the reward for winning is the satisfaction of winning, the penalty for losing is the depression of losing. You come away from the game not having accomplished anything, not having discovered anything new, not progressing on in your exploration of a new and interesting world like in a book, an RPG, or even many FPSes. And, after playing daily from the initial release through the middle of January, it's become too much. There's very little variety; I feel like, for the last couple of weeks, I've been hopping into the same game over and over again. Maybe it's because I have few servers available to me, or the players on these servers aren't all that creative, or something, but I feel no draw to play. It's much easier to take a ten-minute break and play a couple of rounds of CS, because, in small or large portions, NS is either far too little or far too much. I'll still be lurking the forums and posting on occasion, but don't expect to see me here or in-game very often. Thanks for the last couple of months; it's been fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I've been thinking the same thing for several months now about most FPS games in general. I can't think of anything in NS which makes it specifically stand out as an aimless game, as opposed to CS, TFC, Firearms etc. For me, the reason I keep playing NS is because I'm good at it and I like to push myself to get even better.
But in terms of games having no bearing, no epic scope (er, games in general, not NS specifically) I agree. I can think of a few solutions. This isn't really the forum for it, though.
[edit]well, come to think of it, an NS meta-game would truly rawk. Of course, you'd need a LOT more maps for that kind of thing (at least ten more)[/edit]
Comments
What video game does have a point? Games are supposed to be fun, that's all. When you start to get further in-depth than that, they become boring.
Some video games are good in that they greatly increase hand-eye coordination. Some are good in that they teach children things in different manners than reading a book or hearing a lecture in school.
NS falls in to the coordination category - you can learn to not concentrate on one thing, but several at once. The comm is giving orders, the marines are briefing you on their location, you're guarding a hall or doorway, and you are listening for those tiny footsteps that spook us out when we don't know where they're coming from.
That is just fun as hell...I love it to death. Sure it's a waste of time, as are 99.99% of all video games, but I don't really care.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS is based on the half-life engine people.
Half-life is created by valve
Quake was created by ID software
Half life is NOT got ANYTHING to do with quake.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Says you. Have you looked at the code for Quake (1 or 2...doesn't matter) and Half-Life? They have so many similarities that it cannot be ignored that they were developed with some sort of relationship to each other. The gameplay and physics are nearly identical, leave out aesthetics - those are unique to every game.
And just because ID makes one and Valve/Sierra makes the other, means they're not based off the same source code? Negative...look at how many different companies produce Linux (granted that's based off GNU), but just because one company that makes product <i>X</i> is not the same as the other who makes product <i>Y</i> doesn't mean there is some commonality between them.
The HL engine is a revamped, overhauled, souped-up, semi-Quake-2-ified Quake 1 engine at its core. This is true. This game evolved from Quake, although NS is such a huge evolution from HL that the similarities are only apparent in wall-strafing and .bsp and .mdl filenames.
HL != Quake
but the engine is a modified Q1 engine.
'Point'.
Right.
Does anyone else think someone is <i>missing</i> the point?
May I politely suggest that you aren't really a multiplayer action gamer. Try out Baldur's Gate or Planescape, or even Diablo 2. They may be more your basket.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
NS is based on the half-life engine people.
Half-life is created by valve
Quake was created by ID software
Half life is NOT got ANYTHING to do with quake.
Quake is good
Half-life is better
Repeate this 100 times a day untill you beleive it, or the men in white coats will come and MAKE you belive it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
NS is a modification for halflife, whose engine is the Quake -1 engine. NOT THE QUAKE 2 ENGINE (which itself is a modified Q1 engine anyway). This is an amazingly common error. HL is based on a purchased Quake (1) engine from Id Software.
THAT is the link between Valve and Id.
If you don't believe me...
1) check the file formats for HL and compare it to Q2, then Q1. HL has .pak files, which are 100% viewable by my quake1 pak editor. HL uses .mdl not .md2. Etc.
2) Check idsoftware's site. It is harder to navigate than than a vent system as a HA marine, but it is all in there. The vaunted 'HL engine' IS the quake 1 engine, on drugs. I don't know how much code in HL would be untouched from Q1 (not a great deal I suspect), but that is its entire base.
3) Ask someone in the know. Like email valve.
Say this 100 times and slap anyone else who insists that id are not the root of all engine goodness.
Taking nothing away from valve, id are the engine masters, Carmack is the God of Engines.
The fact that we are playing this game as a fresh, new, mind blowing thing, based on his code from <i>a game released a decade ago</i> is I feel enough evidence alone to make this statement.
Not to mention the Alien Defense-Movement-Sensory, because THAT is the ONLY way to win. So, he's posting because its been this way for a while and he's bored of it.
However, we'll probably see him playing again once 1.1 comes out (SHOULD have more strategies available that actually WORKS). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I don't want to come off as hostile, but that is entirely incorrect. A coordinated and experienced marine team has a whole number of winning strategies availible to them; the "welder train" (a squad of upgraded HA/HMG+welder+hp spam. NO HIVE RUSHING, just single hive lockdown to preserve resources. As all strategies only works with 6+ players) is by far the most fun, deathmatch style; sneaking a siege into a hidden spot next to the hive can also be great fun. Turret crawling and two hive lockdown also work, although they are not quite as fun. Quick tech to shotties and MT can sometimes prove interesting. Sneaking a tf and a group of turrets into the hive room itself is an adrenaline rush. Hive relocation is a (very) valid tactic. LA/GL march midgame (around the time the aliens get second hive, but before fades) works wonders if it can be pulled off. Elements such as hive harassment (one marine dedicated to sneaking into a hiveroom and shooting teh hvie a couple of times) can be integrated into any of the above, and all the mentioned strategies can be mixed and matched. And don't get me started on various alien strategies (let's just say sensory+patient skulks=no expansion for marines). If the players on your favorite server only rush the hive it's either a) too big (20+ player servers are unbalanced beyond belief and should be avoided at all costs) or b) too uncreative. Find a better server, such as the one in my sig (just fill in the app, it's free and the onyl purpose is keeping the server lamer-proof).
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/avatars/avatar35.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/ht...rs/avatar35.jpg</a>
Then its from the Movie Aliens. Its Hudson, when Bishop does the Knife thingy, at the mess hall in the Ship. and its him screaming. Ill admit that I found it fairly creepy till I watched the movie recently and remembered where it was from. Actually, the majority of the Avatars (Or rather the ones supplied on the NS fourms are from Alien, and aliens, and are of the main characters involved.)
Oh id have sent this through PM, but for some reason it wont work for me. I get a TCP error whenever I try to send anyhting to anyone, or even save a message.
Oh and as for indepth to a game, TFC had no story, and it was massivly popular. CS Has no story and its stupily popular. NS HAS a story, and its fast growing popular (Hopefull will one day beat that godawfull game CS)
However, it's pointless. Pure and simple, it's pointless. In the same way that a game of CS has no point, NS has no point, but it's on a somewhat larger scale. Games don't affect other games, there's no developing story, there's no roleplaying aspect...the reward for winning is the satisfaction of winning, the penalty for losing is the depression of losing. You come away from the game not having accomplished anything, not having discovered anything new, not progressing on in your exploration of a new and interesting world like in a book, an RPG, or even many FPSes. And, after playing daily from the initial release through the middle of January, it's become too much. There's very little variety; I feel like, for the last couple of weeks, I've been hopping into the same game over and over again. Maybe it's because I have few servers available to me, or the players on these servers aren't all that creative, or something, but I feel no draw to play. It's much easier to take a ten-minute break and play a couple of rounds of CS, because, in small or large portions, NS is either far too little or far too much. I'll still be lurking the forums and posting on occasion, but don't expect to see me here or in-game very often. Thanks for the last couple of months; it's been fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I've been thinking the same thing for several months now about most FPS games in general. I can't think of anything in NS which makes it specifically stand out as an aimless game, as opposed to CS, TFC, Firearms etc. For me, the reason I keep playing NS is because I'm good at it and I like to push myself to get even better.
But in terms of games having no bearing, no epic scope (er, games in general, not NS specifically) I agree. I can think of a few solutions. This isn't really the forum for it, though.
[edit]well, come to think of it, an NS meta-game would truly rawk. Of course, you'd need a LOT more maps for that kind of thing (at least ten more)[/edit]