Noob server... urgh, I remember the days when I considered myself an amateur until I stumbled across a "newbie" CS server (just before the community and gameplay went down the shitter at least) and eventually got autokicked for gaining a 20-something/0 score. Made me feel dirty. Slaughtering newbies isn't really anything to be proud of I guess...
Nor are kills in general, at least not in NS. That's open for discussion, but I still think that if a team wants to play with sensory first, let them- I've seen cloaking used to ambush would-be tech rushers or save a gorge from discovery. I've only ever played with that chamber first on one location; it may have been a win but I missed the existence of carapace (or even my lerk's regeneration). I stick to my own opinion of def. being a must for first or second chamber, but after that I don't care what follows as long as the gorge in question <i>asks their teammates</i>. I find it interesting seeing what everyone else thinks mind, insofar as this can continue without people trying to force their views on their fellow forumites...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what's your point: that you get 15/1 with defense first? Not a good chamber, huh...?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said defense sucked, why else would so many people use it first all the time?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IP = 22 rp Armory = 25 rp
2 nodes = 44 rp
total cost: 91 rp. that leaves 9 left over plus whatever you get en route, plenty for 3 nodes off the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No observatory/Phase gate? Good luck keeping that hive... You're also assuming that the aliens won't harass your marines on their way to a hive and that they won't touch your nozzles. You say that <i>I</i> play on a newbie server?
Th e point of my picture was to show off my god-like abilities at NS, maybe to help establish they I know what i'm talking about.
I have a screen of myself going 35-0. Scores mean nothing.
"If your a fade with cloak and no carapace, you don't just run in to it. After listening for footsepts, cloak, wait for the marine(s) to come to you, then kill. You dont just charge into them thats a waste of 54 resource points."
Obviously, attacking right away when cloaked is not a great idea, but I am talking about when you do attack. Marines will most likely see you if they walk within melee distance, and they can live through an amazing number of acid rockets when upgraded. That gives them the chance to take you out, and even if you survive, you get to run all the way back from the hive to where you were in the first place. (Mov chamber -> hive -> walk back) If there are two marines, and they have good aim, attacking them would be pointless unless you can somehow kill both faster than they can kill you, which you CANNOT, provided they can aim.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Sensory chambers first would be very suicial on some situations, especially given what commanders like to do in 1.04. Imagine this (common) scenario for marines mixed in with sensory chambers right off the back for aliens on a 6v6 game.
First gorge starts gestation about 15-20 seconds into the game. Gorge finishes gesating (I don't know the exat time, but lets say gestations take about 30 seconds?) Gorge at this point at about 5 res, waits another 25-30 seconds to get the necessary res for a sensory. Sensory takes about 15 seconds to go up. This takes about 85-95 seconds.
Comm gets into chair, on avg takes 5-10 seconds depending on map. One IP get dropped, and built. Takes another 10 seconds. Armory gets built. Takes 10-15 seconds. One or two marines stay at base to defend, while the rest go for res nozzles (presumably they stick together) By the time they get to first res point, is anywhere from 10-40 seconds, depending on the map and how long the marines hump the armory. First RT is dropped and built, takes an additional 20 seconds. At this point, 55-95 seconds has gone by. The time, again, depends on the map and armory humping. This means that marines will have only 1-2 res nozzles by the time the first senosry is complete.
Note that this is still bad for the kharaa. Assuming the skulks were not stupid enough to rush the marine base at the beginning (because that = dead skulks which means even less containment and ambush power for the aliens) and the marines are competent (i. e they check the usual hiding places and can shoot decently) the marines might get parasited by they will still get the res nozzles. Now why is this bad? 2 extra RTs for the marines which they can now defend a bit easier because the aliens have no carapace=quick JP/HMG rush to alien's only hive. Don't forget the extra time needed for upgrades for each skulk. The point is, if the aliens are to contain the marines, they have ot do it without any chambers anyway, because of how much time it takes for the the first chamber to go up. And if the aliens can contain the mariens w/o a chamber anyway, then does it matter if a D chamber or a S chamber gets put up first? The aliens have clearly won in that case. So now there are 2 res nozzles up with marines patrolling, and you have to ACTIVELY move and assault those positions. Will cloaking help you then? Probably, but also probably not as much help as carapace can give.
<!--QuoteBegin--miezekatze+Feb 9 2003, 04:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (miezekatze @ Feb 9 2003, 04:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sens is most effective at start. I am soooo sick of explaining to every newbie why I build it first. I have 1 friend that I play with who likes the cloak and we always own the server.
monkey..
claws = 80 damage
if cloaked never get spotted. just wait for 2 marines to walk by then attack. The first one will be dead before he knows it and the second may turn around and fire a few shots before he dead too. Fade is a melee fighter. Most players use it like a acid tank and **** around if they get no adren because they are unable to use claws and blink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The marines WILL spot you if they get anywhere near melee distance. You and your friend own the server? Wow, you own a bunch of newbies. Play a pug, ring for a clan, or even join a clan, and find out for yourself how much you are wrong. Not having carapace as a fade is suicide not to mention stupid.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crisqo+Feb 9 2003, 05:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crisqo @ Feb 9 2003, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the time you have fades....you can have the second chamber, or defense. So you can have your fades with your precious carapace. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, but people were arguing for s-m-d. That is what I was replying to... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Nor are kills in general, at least not in NS. That's open for discussion, but I still think that if a team wants to play with sensory first, let them- I've seen cloaking used to ambush would-be tech rushers or save a gorge from discovery.
I've only ever played with that chamber first on one location; it may have been a win but I missed the existence of carapace (or even my lerk's regeneration). I stick to my own opinion of def. being a must for first or second chamber, but after that I don't care what follows as long as the gorge in question <i>asks their teammates</i>. I find it interesting seeing what everyone else thinks mind, insofar as this can continue without people trying to force their views on their fellow forumites...
I never said defense sucked, why else would so many people use it first all the time?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IP = 22 rp
Armory = 25 rp
2 nodes = 44 rp
total cost: 91 rp. that leaves 9 left over plus whatever you get en route, plenty for 3 nodes off the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No observatory/Phase gate? Good luck keeping that hive... You're also assuming that the aliens won't harass your marines on their way to a hive and that they won't touch your nozzles. You say that <i>I</i> play on a newbie server?
Th e point of my picture was to show off my god-like abilities at NS, maybe to help establish they I know what i'm talking about.
Scores mean nothing.
"If your a fade with cloak and no carapace, you don't just run in to it. After listening for footsepts, cloak, wait for the marine(s) to come to you, then kill. You dont just charge into them thats a waste of 54 resource points."
Obviously, attacking right away when cloaked is not a great idea, but I am talking about when you do attack. Marines will most likely see you if they walk within melee distance, and they can live through an amazing number of acid rockets when upgraded. That gives them the chance to take you out, and even if you survive, you get to run all the way back from the hive to where you were in the first place. (Mov chamber -> hive -> walk back) If there are two marines, and they have good aim, attacking them would be pointless unless you can somehow kill both faster than they can kill you, which you CANNOT, provided they can aim.
First gorge starts gestation about 15-20 seconds into the game.
Gorge finishes gesating (I don't know the exat time, but lets say gestations take about 30 seconds?)
Gorge at this point at about 5 res, waits another 25-30 seconds to get the necessary res for a sensory.
Sensory takes about 15 seconds to go up. This takes about 85-95 seconds.
Comm gets into chair, on avg takes 5-10 seconds depending on map.
One IP get dropped, and built. Takes another 10 seconds.
Armory gets built. Takes 10-15 seconds.
One or two marines stay at base to defend, while the rest go for res nozzles (presumably they stick together)
By the time they get to first res point, is anywhere from 10-40 seconds, depending on the map and how long the marines hump the armory.
First RT is dropped and built, takes an additional 20 seconds.
At this point, 55-95 seconds has gone by. The time, again, depends on the map and armory humping.
This means that marines will have only 1-2 res nozzles by the time the first senosry is complete.
Note that this is still bad for the kharaa. Assuming the skulks were not stupid enough to rush the marine base at the beginning (because that = dead skulks which means even less containment and ambush power for the aliens) and the marines are competent (i. e they check the usual hiding places and can shoot decently) the marines might get parasited by they will still get the res nozzles. Now why is this bad? 2 extra RTs for the marines which they can now defend a bit easier because the aliens have no carapace=quick JP/HMG rush to alien's only hive. Don't forget the extra time needed for upgrades for each skulk. The point is, if the aliens are to contain the marines, they have ot do it without any chambers anyway, because of how much time it takes for the the first chamber to go up. And if the aliens can contain the mariens w/o a chamber anyway, then does it matter if a D chamber or a S chamber gets put up first? The aliens have clearly won in that case. So now there are 2 res nozzles up with marines patrolling, and you have to ACTIVELY move and assault those positions. Will cloaking help you then? Probably, but also probably not as much help as carapace can give.
monkey..
claws = 80 damage
if cloaked never get spotted. just wait for 2 marines to walk by then attack. The first one will be dead before he knows it and the second may turn around and fire a few shots before he dead too. Fade is a melee fighter. Most players use it like a acid tank and **** around if they get no adren because they are unable to use claws and blink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The marines WILL spot you if they get anywhere near melee distance.
You and your friend own the server? Wow, you own a bunch of newbies. Play a pug, ring for a clan, or even join a clan, and find out for yourself how much you are wrong. Not having carapace as a fade is suicide not to mention stupid.
Yes, but people were arguing for s-m-d. That is what I was replying to... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->